Discussion
red_slr said:
I am sure someone will correct me but I am fairly sure you can watch films and there will be a film "app" also and specific films for rift in 3D too.
Yeah that the issue, this device is just a fancy monitor, its pretending to be some smart device.. It isn't.I think ill wait for the HTC vive
Guvernator said:
It is expensive but after reading the OR CE0's explanation I can sort of understand where the cost is coming from.
"The core technology in the Rift is the main driver - two built-for-VR OLED displays with very high refresh rate and pixel density, a very precise tracking system, mechanical adjustment systems that must be lightweight, durable, and precise, and cutting-edge optics that are more complex to manufacture than many high end DSLR lenses. It is expensive, but for the $599 you spend, you get a lot more than spending $599 on pretty much any other consumer electronics devices - phones that cost $599 cost a fraction of that to make, same with mid-range TVs that cost $599"
So it is packed with a lot of cutting edge tech which costs money. Does anyone know what resolution the retail kit will be at? There were complaints that even the 1080p of the DK2 weren't really good enough.
To be honest that's a refreshingly frank and on point response from the CEO."The core technology in the Rift is the main driver - two built-for-VR OLED displays with very high refresh rate and pixel density, a very precise tracking system, mechanical adjustment systems that must be lightweight, durable, and precise, and cutting-edge optics that are more complex to manufacture than many high end DSLR lenses. It is expensive, but for the $599 you spend, you get a lot more than spending $599 on pretty much any other consumer electronics devices - phones that cost $599 cost a fraction of that to make, same with mid-range TVs that cost $599"
So it is packed with a lot of cutting edge tech which costs money. Does anyone know what resolution the retail kit will be at? There were complaints that even the 1080p of the DK2 weren't really good enough.
People drop this sort of money (and then some) on iPhones without a second thought, and they are demonstrably cheaper to manufacture. I genuinely believe him when he says that the cost of the bespoke components are what has resulted in this price.
A lot of the grief I think is from people who thought (why, I don't know) that this - or any first generation bespoke new tech - would be priced for the masses to consume.
I pre-ordered one yesterday - after some hassle with the payment system - it's been interesting watching the internet work its way along the grief curve (me included!).
Some quick points on various things that have come up in the thread:-
PS/Sony - their headset is lower resolution, BUT they're trying to use some clever tech to overcome some of that. People that have tried their product don't seem to think the resolution is too low.
All of the Sony kits shown include a separate add-on box - it has some sort of GPU in it to increase the PS4's power and help make VR possible. It includes various workarounds to make a 60FPS game into a 90 or 120 FPS game. Essentially by monitoring how your head is moving and then interpolating a new frame to draw while it waits for the next "real" frame that's running at 60.
Oculus price - it is what it is. I believe them when they say they are selling it at cost. That itself is a very malleable figure as it all depends on how you amortise R+D costs into the components.
The total cost, I am pretty sure, is £499 plus £30 delivery. I am 99% sure this includes VAT/customs etc....but you never know!
It's not just a screen, there are the glass lenses (comparable to elements in an SLR lens) plus the headphones plus the tracking camera, plus the remote, plus the controller etc.
Snuffy - it comes with a simple little remote for doing things like navigating menus etc, so you'll only need the xbox controller for playing actual games.
I think the headset comes with an app called oculus cinema - not used it myself but it plays films etc. I think if you just played a video "full screen" you could easily get motion sickness etc.
The headsets are also meant to be good for watching 3D films but again I've not tried it myself.
Graphics cards - I had a quick google and 970's seem to be about £250 or so, all on their own! So it is designed to go with fairly expensive computers. Overclockers are selling one at recommended specs for just under £1,100.
Motion sickness - this is VERY dependent on the developer avoiding certain issues which can cause sickness. I appreciate someone has been on the irish sea, but I think they can deliberately make things where 99.9% of the population will feel very sick, very quickly. Any independent control of the camera causes that disparity between head motion and what you see. Anecdotally a dev working on a game has kept his afternoons free so that he can recover after making himself accidentally ill in the mornings!
Phobias - As VR seems much more real it is apparently much easier to trigger phobias in people. The obvious one is vertigo but also claustrophobia and others.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35239815
Some quick points on various things that have come up in the thread:-
PS/Sony - their headset is lower resolution, BUT they're trying to use some clever tech to overcome some of that. People that have tried their product don't seem to think the resolution is too low.
All of the Sony kits shown include a separate add-on box - it has some sort of GPU in it to increase the PS4's power and help make VR possible. It includes various workarounds to make a 60FPS game into a 90 or 120 FPS game. Essentially by monitoring how your head is moving and then interpolating a new frame to draw while it waits for the next "real" frame that's running at 60.
Oculus price - it is what it is. I believe them when they say they are selling it at cost. That itself is a very malleable figure as it all depends on how you amortise R+D costs into the components.
The total cost, I am pretty sure, is £499 plus £30 delivery. I am 99% sure this includes VAT/customs etc....but you never know!
It's not just a screen, there are the glass lenses (comparable to elements in an SLR lens) plus the headphones plus the tracking camera, plus the remote, plus the controller etc.
Snuffy - it comes with a simple little remote for doing things like navigating menus etc, so you'll only need the xbox controller for playing actual games.
I think the headset comes with an app called oculus cinema - not used it myself but it plays films etc. I think if you just played a video "full screen" you could easily get motion sickness etc.
The headsets are also meant to be good for watching 3D films but again I've not tried it myself.
Graphics cards - I had a quick google and 970's seem to be about £250 or so, all on their own! So it is designed to go with fairly expensive computers. Overclockers are selling one at recommended specs for just under £1,100.
Motion sickness - this is VERY dependent on the developer avoiding certain issues which can cause sickness. I appreciate someone has been on the irish sea, but I think they can deliberately make things where 99.9% of the population will feel very sick, very quickly. Any independent control of the camera causes that disparity between head motion and what you see. Anecdotally a dev working on a game has kept his afternoons free so that he can recover after making himself accidentally ill in the mornings!
Phobias - As VR seems much more real it is apparently much easier to trigger phobias in people. The obvious one is vertigo but also claustrophobia and others.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35239815
This thing has been vapourware for a considerable length of time (to the point where I myself doubted it even existed at all). Now you can buy one, oh wait, you can have it in 6 months time. So it's still vapourware - if you have to wait 6 months then it still does not actually exist.
The phone industry does not do this. This launch a new phone and you can go and buy one (or you maybe have to wait a few days) - but 6 months ? Really ? They don't actually have a product, do they ?
The phone industry does not do this. This launch a new phone and you can go and buy one (or you maybe have to wait a few days) - but 6 months ? Really ? They don't actually have a product, do they ?
Irrotational said:
Snuffy - it comes with a simple little remote for doing things like navigating menus etc, so you'll only need the xbox controller for playing actual games.
I see, thank you.Well if you have to use an Xbox controller then it's no use to me. Mouse and keyboard, I don't want none of that thumb crap !
Daston said:
What ever did happen to the Kickstarter backers? My brother originally backed this when it was first announced and paid enough that he should have a retail version. I am guessing this is no longer the case?
They get a retail version free if they gave over $275.http://www.wired.com/2016/01/oculus-kickstarter-ba...
Foliage said:
mikef said:
Now shipping has gone out to June I've sort of lost interest for the moment
I find the comments on pricing slightly amusing in a forum populated by folks who will happily spend a few hundred on a video card; most people thing we're nuts doing that already
Yeah I know, my main gaming monitor was nearly £400... I find the comments on pricing slightly amusing in a forum populated by folks who will happily spend a few hundred on a video card; most people thing we're nuts doing that already
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But probably where VR is most effective given the limitations of the current tech but I agree, the moment someone nails the VR experience with a decent FPS online shooter (without making them sick) is when it will take off big time IMO.I know the current Star Wars game isn't very deep but the environment\graphics are very immersive as it is, now imagine that in VR.
snuffy said:
I see, thank you.
Well if you have to use an Xbox controller then it's no use to me. Mouse and keyboard, I don't want none of that thumb crap !
It depends on the games I guess but if it involves lots of keys it may be hard to find them and press them properly whilst wearing the headset ;-)Well if you have to use an Xbox controller then it's no use to me. Mouse and keyboard, I don't want none of that thumb crap !
If it's "just" WASD and space to jump then you'll probably be ok.
Guvernator said:
But probably where VR is most effective given the limitations of the current tech but I agree, the moment someone nails the VR experience with a decent FPS online shooter (without making them sick) is when it will take off big time IMO.
I know the current Star Wars game isn't very deep but the environment\graphics are very immersive as it is, now imagine that in VR.
A modern X-Wing/Tie Fighter game would be epic with VR. Elite Dangerous is stunning. I know the current Star Wars game isn't very deep but the environment\graphics are very immersive as it is, now imagine that in VR.
Rick101 said:
X Wing would be amazing but I imagine it would be quickly followed by revisiting your dinner!
Apparently the sim type games don't seem to cause as many issues as you are meant to be sitting down in a spaceship, car or whatever and moving your head around and in real life, your body is mimicking this sat on a chair\couch doing the same thing so it's not a big disconnect. It's when they try to do stuff where your brain\head is moving in a different way to what you are seeing on screen, e.g. in a first person game where what you see is you running around when in reality your sitting on your couch. It's this disconnect between what you are seeing through the VR set and what your brain, body and balance centres say you are doing which cause the most problems.
I'm not on the same page as all the people reacting badly to this.
I see it as VERY cool tech. I see it as a more premium product and experience than the Ps4 kit (which I also do like but will only run at solid FPS on a less full on way. IE low light environments where only the area in the bright light will have proper resolution and focus to allow the Ps4 gfx capability to keep up.
All in all, I am really excited about it and will be using it as an excuse to invest in a new gaming pc and the O.R. as soon as I can gather all the funds needed next year.
We all have mobile phones worth around £500 new, so a full VR headset sounds worth similar.
All my opinion and the day they start giving them away for £50 I'll also be happy for how accessible that makes it for everyone, but I won't expect it to be very good. £50 doesn't even buy reasonable spark plugs for a car.
RW
I see it as VERY cool tech. I see it as a more premium product and experience than the Ps4 kit (which I also do like but will only run at solid FPS on a less full on way. IE low light environments where only the area in the bright light will have proper resolution and focus to allow the Ps4 gfx capability to keep up.
All in all, I am really excited about it and will be using it as an excuse to invest in a new gaming pc and the O.R. as soon as I can gather all the funds needed next year.
We all have mobile phones worth around £500 new, so a full VR headset sounds worth similar.
All my opinion and the day they start giving them away for £50 I'll also be happy for how accessible that makes it for everyone, but I won't expect it to be very good. £50 doesn't even buy reasonable spark plugs for a car.
RW
snuffy said:
I see, thank you.
Well if you have to use an Xbox controller then it's no use to me. Mouse and keyboard, I don't want none of that thumb crap !
It's almost impossible to use a keyboard/mouse reliably when wearing a headset. You need a controller that stays in your hands so xbox controller, the OR controllers (touch?) or a steering wheel/pedals or flight stick type arrangement.Well if you have to use an Xbox controller then it's no use to me. Mouse and keyboard, I don't want none of that thumb crap !
Don't forget that you no longer need mouse look when using a rift. Your real head does the looking.
Steven_RW said:
I'm not on the same page as all the people reacting badly to this.
I see it as VERY cool tech. I see it as a more premium product and experience than the Ps4 kit (which I also do like but will only run at solid FPS on a less full on way. IE low light environments where only the area in the bright light will have proper resolution and focus to allow the Ps4 gfx capability to keep up.
All in all, I am really excited about it and will be using it as an excuse to invest in a new gaming pc and the O.R. as soon as I can gather all the funds needed next year.
We all have mobile phones worth around £500 new, so a full VR headset sounds worth similar.
All my opinion and the day they start giving them away for £50 I'll also be happy for how accessible that makes it for everyone, but I won't expect it to be very good. £50 doesn't even buy reasonable spark plugs for a car.
RW
Nobody seems to be denying that the tech is cool but the launch price is off-putting for many. The phone analogy is somewhat flawed as well; many people have their expensive phones subsidised on contracts.I see it as VERY cool tech. I see it as a more premium product and experience than the Ps4 kit (which I also do like but will only run at solid FPS on a less full on way. IE low light environments where only the area in the bright light will have proper resolution and focus to allow the Ps4 gfx capability to keep up.
All in all, I am really excited about it and will be using it as an excuse to invest in a new gaming pc and the O.R. as soon as I can gather all the funds needed next year.
We all have mobile phones worth around £500 new, so a full VR headset sounds worth similar.
All my opinion and the day they start giving them away for £50 I'll also be happy for how accessible that makes it for everyone, but I won't expect it to be very good. £50 doesn't even buy reasonable spark plugs for a car.
RW
If you have the disposable income to buy one of these and to make whatever upgrades are necessary for your PC then great, but I think you'll find yourself in a pretty small minority. The problem then becomes a catch 22 - developers won't be so keen to build support for a peripheral that a very small percentage of their target market can afford to own, which in turn means that the potential customers who are trying to decide if it's worth it will see a small list of games that support it and decide against it.
Launch price is simply too high for all but the most committed and affluent potential customers. This is a setback for VR as a "thing".
Bullett said:
It's almost impossible to use a keyboard/mouse reliably when wearing a headset. You need a controller that stays in your hands so xbox controller, the OR controllers (touch?) or a steering wheel/pedals or flight stick type arrangement.
Don't forget that you no longer need mouse look when using a rift. Your real head does the looking.
To be honest while the mouse+keyboard is pretty good and PC stalwarts love them, they do have their drawbacks, especially in VR. They are a best fit solution carried over from the dawn of PC gaming rather than something that feels really natural or intuitive. Likewise a joypad\controller has good and bad points, more intuitive to use but not as precise or flexible, in short neither are perfect and I'm surprised that no one has really bothered to come up with anything better until recently with possibly the exception of Nintendo.Don't forget that you no longer need mouse look when using a rift. Your real head does the looking.
However it looks like VR has given them a reason to invest in this area and the big companies are finally trying to move this on. Things like OR touch, the Steam Controller etc are a step forward or an attempt to do something different for the first time in ages. I'm hoping that this continues and we see some exciting new developments in the control interface space which has been stagnant for far too long IMO.
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