GT6 vs GTR2 vs RaceRoom vs IRacing
Discussion
I've been trying out the PC racing sims, looking for the best representation of driving a car around a track.
As a long time GT (5 & 6 - but only because the PS3 + Xbox were the only hardware available. I don't really rate Forza as a 'sim' (sorry)) iRacing really kicked my ego in. It's really, really hard! But having settled in I cant get used to the in car cam. It just cuts away too much of the screen, and I cant be chewed with multiple monitors.
GTR2 is great, but only really caters for racing cars. Which is fine, but sometimes you want something a little more forgiving.
Raceroom, again, is great but feels little too arcade - too much POV change at high speeds. Feels like a sim trying to cater for the arcade market.
And so, I find myself back on GT6 and not hating it. Sure it's not as hardcore as iRacing, but it's nearly there and looks gorgeous.
So, what's the ultimate 'sim'? rFactor looks good but is quite expensive. Could that be the happy medium of the lot? After reading online, it seems there's still a lot of bugs to be ironed out?
Cheers,
As a long time GT (5 & 6 - but only because the PS3 + Xbox were the only hardware available. I don't really rate Forza as a 'sim' (sorry)) iRacing really kicked my ego in. It's really, really hard! But having settled in I cant get used to the in car cam. It just cuts away too much of the screen, and I cant be chewed with multiple monitors.
GTR2 is great, but only really caters for racing cars. Which is fine, but sometimes you want something a little more forgiving.
Raceroom, again, is great but feels little too arcade - too much POV change at high speeds. Feels like a sim trying to cater for the arcade market.
And so, I find myself back on GT6 and not hating it. Sure it's not as hardcore as iRacing, but it's nearly there and looks gorgeous.
So, what's the ultimate 'sim'? rFactor looks good but is quite expensive. Could that be the happy medium of the lot? After reading online, it seems there's still a lot of bugs to be ironed out?
Cheers,
)You are missing the best 2, Assetto Corsa is excellent and tracks and mods seem to be coming out daily at the moment, but if you cant run rfactor 2 then you wont get near it I am afraid. Pcars is shaping up very well but is not open for purchase I understand.
For me, currently the best is rfactor 2, they have a demo to download and I think you can scale it back quite a lot graphically, but in terms of feel it is the best out there. A couple of good mods floating about if you know where to look, Lola is a must, Touring Car legends is a bit ropey looking but good fun and Blancpain and 2013 F1 are both good. Download the demo here - http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/rf2dl/
Or RF1 is kind of still the daddy, graphically it cant match the new boys but it is still great, Historic X Mod, DRM, classic F1 mods are all exceptional and still great fun as are the HRC Historic Rally Mod and WSCGT mods.
If graphics are a real struggle, go on Steam and look for GT Legends, must be about 3 quid and features older more forgiving cars, most fun I could remember.
Have you got a wheel setup?
For me, currently the best is rfactor 2, they have a demo to download and I think you can scale it back quite a lot graphically, but in terms of feel it is the best out there. A couple of good mods floating about if you know where to look, Lola is a must, Touring Car legends is a bit ropey looking but good fun and Blancpain and 2013 F1 are both good. Download the demo here - http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/rf2dl/
Or RF1 is kind of still the daddy, graphically it cant match the new boys but it is still great, Historic X Mod, DRM, classic F1 mods are all exceptional and still great fun as are the HRC Historic Rally Mod and WSCGT mods.
If graphics are a real struggle, go on Steam and look for GT Legends, must be about 3 quid and features older more forgiving cars, most fun I could remember.
Have you got a wheel setup?
Or try this instead of rF2, it's a half way house between GTL and RF2. If they any keys left, PC Gamer are giving away copies of GTR Evolution for free (you also get Race 07).
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/23/free-steam-key/
Oh and you need to have a Facebook account, or make up one just for this and "like"
them.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/23/free-steam-key/
Oh and you need to have a Facebook account, or make up one just for this and "like"
them.Iracing for me.
Tried most of the others and still think this is the best for me. It is very very hard but I like that, getting used to the nuances of each car not bouncing around lots of different stuff that all feels virtually the same. I've been playing for about a year and I'm only on my 2nd car that I race regularly. Racing is pretty clean as the mechanics discourage dangerous racing.
GT6 is very arcady in comparison I didn't find it much fun, not loaded it up for 6 months.
Raceroom had only time trials when I last checked it out.
Assetto Corsa I need more time with.
A wheel is essential for all these titles.
Tried most of the others and still think this is the best for me. It is very very hard but I like that, getting used to the nuances of each car not bouncing around lots of different stuff that all feels virtually the same. I've been playing for about a year and I'm only on my 2nd car that I race regularly. Racing is pretty clean as the mechanics discourage dangerous racing.
GT6 is very arcady in comparison I didn't find it much fun, not loaded it up for 6 months.
Raceroom had only time trials when I last checked it out.
Assetto Corsa I need more time with.
A wheel is essential for all these titles.
Assetto Corsa is very nice to look at with some great content, that said I often feel is a bit too forgiving for a sim. iracing on the other hand feels far more competative and rewarding to master. You can adjust the FOV, have you tried that? There is no real need for multiple monitors, you can adjust the compete driving position to suit your preference. Another plus for iracing is it will run very well on even a low end machine.
I've also played grid autosport which is a great racer in its own right but it's definitely in the arcade side of racing.
I've also played grid autosport which is a great racer in its own right but it's definitely in the arcade side of racing.
You can adjust the FOV in all the racing games, either through the menu or the ini
I use one of these however so I don't need 3 screens
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/products/track...
With an Occulus Rift on the horizon.
I use one of these however so I don't need 3 screens
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/products/track...
With an Occulus Rift on the horizon.
THX said:
PC power isn't an issue, and I've got a wheel.
AC looks good... I'll give that and rF2 a go after I've been paid!
Rf2 demo is free, you can then bu it if you like it, don't thing AC has a demo but it is worth the money for the development future alone, both are however not finished products currently.AC looks good... I'll give that and rF2 a go after I've been paid!
Remember AC isn't anywhere near finished yet so it's still playing a beta and all the niggles that come with it.
rFactor 2 is nice.
In the end some of the older games are actually better sims. Yes the newer ones are more flashy looking but some of the content can be questionable.
I still really like GT5 for an all-round experience... so no harm in saying you like GT6.
They get a LOT of things right, and very little wrong.
In my experience GT5 can be just as realistic as any proper 'sim' where it counts. Turn off all the driving aids, throw on the appropriately realistic tyres for the car you have (road cars on the road tyres for instance), and the feelings are fantastic!
FF is great.
Audio is generally very good.
Visuals might lack is some detail ways, but as a cohesive realistic looking image, they are amazing too.
If AC or pCARS come any where close to a game like GT5 or GT6 for overall 'rightness' I'd be impressed.
Dave
rFactor 2 is nice.
In the end some of the older games are actually better sims. Yes the newer ones are more flashy looking but some of the content can be questionable.
I still really like GT5 for an all-round experience... so no harm in saying you like GT6.
They get a LOT of things right, and very little wrong.
In my experience GT5 can be just as realistic as any proper 'sim' where it counts. Turn off all the driving aids, throw on the appropriately realistic tyres for the car you have (road cars on the road tyres for instance), and the feelings are fantastic!
FF is great.
Audio is generally very good.
Visuals might lack is some detail ways, but as a cohesive realistic looking image, they are amazing too.
If AC or pCARS come any where close to a game like GT5 or GT6 for overall 'rightness' I'd be impressed.
Dave
They are far too different to compare really, GT5 is aimed at the masses and as a result tries to do too much, it has to appeal to the pickup and play people, and its good at that, although GT5 for me hasn't been fired up in a while, but it is not a sim in as much as BF4 isn't a sim, but bloody good fun.
As a result I cannot imagine they go in to much detail in the physics of each individual car and tyre model that the dedicated sims go through, the same with the tracks. We don't have that much information about the GT or forza tyre and physics models to compare, but the online explanations behind both the Pcars and rfactor 2 highlight the difference. Do GT's tyres even flex and wobble under loads, are affected by use, temperatures and damage/flat spots? Then there is things like the active track Pcars, Rfactor 2 (already implemented) and AC have where by the tracks evolve over time with weather, temperature and rubbering in as well as debris and visible and physical marbles/ dry lines etc.
I hadn't looked in on Pcars for a while but have just read through Anthony Hamilton and Ben Collins' threads on their almost weekly feedback, it really is detailed and highlights the lengths they are going to try and achieve realism by having the whole car react as it should do by modelling each of the running gear components and mass accurately and having them respond as they do in real life in ach situation. They are even getting the correct grip of the grass!
It was good to read Ben online after three days of testing at le Mans then feeding back bits about getting the PCars track as close as possible, they are taking it more seriously on the accuracy and physics side than I thought they would.
They are all unfinished currently, November for pcars and AC I think, god knows with rfactor 2, very slow development!
As a result I cannot imagine they go in to much detail in the physics of each individual car and tyre model that the dedicated sims go through, the same with the tracks. We don't have that much information about the GT or forza tyre and physics models to compare, but the online explanations behind both the Pcars and rfactor 2 highlight the difference. Do GT's tyres even flex and wobble under loads, are affected by use, temperatures and damage/flat spots? Then there is things like the active track Pcars, Rfactor 2 (already implemented) and AC have where by the tracks evolve over time with weather, temperature and rubbering in as well as debris and visible and physical marbles/ dry lines etc.
I hadn't looked in on Pcars for a while but have just read through Anthony Hamilton and Ben Collins' threads on their almost weekly feedback, it really is detailed and highlights the lengths they are going to try and achieve realism by having the whole car react as it should do by modelling each of the running gear components and mass accurately and having them respond as they do in real life in ach situation. They are even getting the correct grip of the grass!
It was good to read Ben online after three days of testing at le Mans then feeding back bits about getting the PCars track as close as possible, they are taking it more seriously on the accuracy and physics side than I thought they would.
They are all unfinished currently, November for pcars and AC I think, god knows with rfactor 2, very slow development!
I think the not finished things sums it up.
By November will they be 'finished', or still full of years of polishing up and making all those fantastic systems work properly with correct values.
It's great to have tyre flex and a million and one other sim features, but if the values plugged in don't make sense then they are possibly not transparent to the user, or actually hinder them more than reality.
Just look at GPL for the day. It's quite a simple engine but with very good values so it feels 'right'
You don't need super-complexity really, just very well tuned values.
Complexity can add quality though, but only once all the details are perfect.
I've been flamed for pointing out detail issues in AC for example, and basically told they're not important and will get fixed once it's "released"
I think it's dangerous to just judge a game that you drive and know feels good based on the idea that because it has wide appeal it can't actually be that good vs those of narrower appeal.
Remember pCARS is going onto consoles too, vying for some of the Forza/GT market?
AC seem to be adding more and more licensed content too and as the appeal base widens (joypad controllers) so that will be diluted too?
Fundamentally all that matters to me is how right things feel, and when I drive GT5 or GT6 they feel to me most like driving a real car can do.
Yes some of the values in games like GT5 may be questionable, but what of a 'sim' like AC?
They tell us more what they do, but no info is forthcoming about where they get their data to fill the cars settings with. Ie, the MP4 12C suspension isn't simulated from what I can see, just fudged with conventional suspension settings like high spring rates and dampers.
F458 CST is just a range of TC settings that trim the wheels speeds more aggressively when it slips, not a combined ESP/TCS/diff settings package... but they add a range of TC settings as if it's CST.
If you talk the talk you have to walk and walk and prove that your sim is the dogs danglies, but none of them do, so you're right back to the GT5/GT6 situation any way.
You may as well just drive what you like and trust in the developers to have done the right thing, because in the end unless you have all the code and car values sat on your lap to test with you'll never know what they do or don't simulate and simulate properly.
Dave
By November will they be 'finished', or still full of years of polishing up and making all those fantastic systems work properly with correct values.
It's great to have tyre flex and a million and one other sim features, but if the values plugged in don't make sense then they are possibly not transparent to the user, or actually hinder them more than reality.
Just look at GPL for the day. It's quite a simple engine but with very good values so it feels 'right'
You don't need super-complexity really, just very well tuned values.
Complexity can add quality though, but only once all the details are perfect.
I've been flamed for pointing out detail issues in AC for example, and basically told they're not important and will get fixed once it's "released"
I think it's dangerous to just judge a game that you drive and know feels good based on the idea that because it has wide appeal it can't actually be that good vs those of narrower appeal.
Remember pCARS is going onto consoles too, vying for some of the Forza/GT market?
AC seem to be adding more and more licensed content too and as the appeal base widens (joypad controllers) so that will be diluted too?
Fundamentally all that matters to me is how right things feel, and when I drive GT5 or GT6 they feel to me most like driving a real car can do.
Yes some of the values in games like GT5 may be questionable, but what of a 'sim' like AC?
They tell us more what they do, but no info is forthcoming about where they get their data to fill the cars settings with. Ie, the MP4 12C suspension isn't simulated from what I can see, just fudged with conventional suspension settings like high spring rates and dampers.
F458 CST is just a range of TC settings that trim the wheels speeds more aggressively when it slips, not a combined ESP/TCS/diff settings package... but they add a range of TC settings as if it's CST.
If you talk the talk you have to walk and walk and prove that your sim is the dogs danglies, but none of them do, so you're right back to the GT5/GT6 situation any way.
You may as well just drive what you like and trust in the developers to have done the right thing, because in the end unless you have all the code and car values sat on your lap to test with you'll never know what they do or don't simulate and simulate properly.
Dave
So, I ended up wasting loads of money on hi-fi and decided I couldn't really justify another full price game just now sooooo... I gave Race 07 another shot.
What a quality sim! I'd totally overlooked it after spending a couple minutes in only the single seaters around Macau (doesn't do the engine justice)
It's nails hard but hugely rewarding once you see your times start to tumble. I'm a bit crap right now (playing everything set to sim, AI 110%) but it's coming together.
Great game. Looking forward to spending more time on it.
What a quality sim! I'd totally overlooked it after spending a couple minutes in only the single seaters around Macau (doesn't do the engine justice)
It's nails hard but hugely rewarding once you see your times start to tumble. I'm a bit crap right now (playing everything set to sim, AI 110%) but it's coming together.
Great game. Looking forward to spending more time on it.
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