World of Tanks (Vol 2)
Discussion
jimmyjimjim said:
I did enjoy, in the FV207 last night, bouncing a f
king big shell off the back of a 212A.
Needless to say, with the rng that far against us (WTF don't they tone it done a little?!?!!), we lost.
The FV207, you are truly in the wilderness of sking big shell off the back of a 212A.Needless to say, with the rng that far against us (WTF don't they tone it done a little?!?!!), we lost.
t artillery now. If you are a gritty son of a bh and you last long enough, the FV3805 is good with the 7.2" gun. If you can make it to the Conqueror Gun Carriage, you shall be rewarded with the 9" doom mortar. When custom emblems get sorted, I'm going to name my CGC "Judgement", a fitting name I think.Beati Dogu said:
If you get the same emblems as the PC version you can choose between ones like "Thunderbolt", "Fireball", "Wrath of Heaven" and "Harbinger of the Apocalypse". All quite fitting for the CGC.
Quite, at the moment mine has the "Devastator" inscription, and my personal favourite, "Blockbuster".Mastodon2 said:
The FV207, you are truly in the wilderness of st artillery now. If you are a gritty son of a bh and you last long enough, the FV3805 is good with the 7.2" gun. If you can make it to the Conqueror Gun Carriage, you shall be rewarded with the 9" doom mortar. When custom emblems get sorted, I'm going to name my CGC "Judgement", a fitting name I think.
You mean the orbital assault platform of course t artillery now. If you are a gritty son of a bh and you last long enough, the FV3805 is good with the 7.2" gun. If you can make it to the Conqueror Gun Carriage, you shall be rewarded with the 9" doom mortar. When custom emblems get sorted, I'm going to name my CGC "Judgement", a fitting name I think.my 704 and IS8 got one shotted in the 1st 3 minutes by that thing last night.
Gentlemen allow me to present my cunning plan for completing the Arty missions in the (increasingly grindy) Individual Missions.
As you may (or may not) know, I don't play Arty and have none in my garage. A slight problem when it comes to completing Artillery missions. However, I did discover a little French premium thing rusting at the back of my garage some time ago. It goes by the snappy title of 105 leFH18B2.
Maybe I picked it up as part of a bundle at some point and didn't notice, but I choose to believe it was placed there by RNGesus himself and is a sign that RNGesus himself has blessed this endeavour.
It has been a surprisingly effective and nasty little weapon as it carrys the blessing of RNGesus and does not suffer from any of the nerfs that have plagued the regular arties. However it is obvious to me that it will only carry me so far in completing these infernal missions and I will need something more powerful to complete the later missions.
I have deliberated long over what Arty line would serve me best in the pursuit of women...ahem...I mean female crew members.
The French are the obvious choice as I already have a premium French arty and a reasonably well trained crew.
The Germans are an option as I did play that line as far as the Hummel, so I could start at tier 7 with the GW Panther from the get go.
The British are attractive because I get to start with Bert the avenger and the later vehicles are doom canons.
I could go with the Russians as I have the S51 unlocked via the KV2...but...its an S51 and I shudder at the prospect of having to play that thing.
The Americans I would have to play from scratch with none of the selling points of the other lines, but I have decided to go with them anyway.
And here is where I introduce part 2 of my cunning plan.
I am also progressing the Light tank missions and although I have a Luchs, ELC AMX and an AMX 13 90, I need to expand my arsenal and I do want to get a Walker Bulldog.
It just so happens that I can start from the Chaffee and lo and behold I can jump from the Chaffee to the tier 6 arty, the M44. So I can use the Chaffee to grind out the LT missions and at the same time grind out the xp on the M44 which I should have unlocked by the time the snappy titled 105 leFH18B2 runs out of steam. GENIUS!
As you may (or may not) know, I don't play Arty and have none in my garage. A slight problem when it comes to completing Artillery missions. However, I did discover a little French premium thing rusting at the back of my garage some time ago. It goes by the snappy title of 105 leFH18B2.
Maybe I picked it up as part of a bundle at some point and didn't notice, but I choose to believe it was placed there by RNGesus himself and is a sign that RNGesus himself has blessed this endeavour.
It has been a surprisingly effective and nasty little weapon as it carrys the blessing of RNGesus and does not suffer from any of the nerfs that have plagued the regular arties. However it is obvious to me that it will only carry me so far in completing these infernal missions and I will need something more powerful to complete the later missions.
I have deliberated long over what Arty line would serve me best in the pursuit of women...ahem...I mean female crew members.
The French are the obvious choice as I already have a premium French arty and a reasonably well trained crew.
The Germans are an option as I did play that line as far as the Hummel, so I could start at tier 7 with the GW Panther from the get go.
The British are attractive because I get to start with Bert the avenger and the later vehicles are doom canons.
I could go with the Russians as I have the S51 unlocked via the KV2...but...its an S51 and I shudder at the prospect of having to play that thing.
The Americans I would have to play from scratch with none of the selling points of the other lines, but I have decided to go with them anyway.
And here is where I introduce part 2 of my cunning plan.
I am also progressing the Light tank missions and although I have a Luchs, ELC AMX and an AMX 13 90, I need to expand my arsenal and I do want to get a Walker Bulldog.
It just so happens that I can start from the Chaffee and lo and behold I can jump from the Chaffee to the tier 6 arty, the M44. So I can use the Chaffee to grind out the LT missions and at the same time grind out the xp on the M44 which I should have unlocked by the time the snappy titled 105 leFH18B2 runs out of steam. GENIUS!
The American artillery at tiers 7, 8 and 9 are very powerful. The M53/55 is probably the easiest artillery to use well in the game. Massive gun traverse, decent arc, the gun is powerful, accurate and reloads quickly. As it is an enclosed vehicle it can mount vents.
The British SPGs are not really that impressive until you get the last gun on the tier 9. A lot of people struggle with the Crusader 5.5 at tier 7, and the FV207 at tier 8 is just dire.
The British SPGs are not really that impressive until you get the last gun on the tier 9. A lot of people struggle with the Crusader 5.5 at tier 7, and the FV207 at tier 8 is just dire.
Alan O'Hagan said:
The Americans I would have to play from scratch with none of the selling points of the other lines, but I have decided to go with them anyway.
And here is where I introduce part 2 of my cunning plan.
I am also progressing the Light tank missions and although I have a Luchs, ELC AMX and an AMX 13 90, I need to expand my arsenal and I do want to get a Walker Bulldog.
It just so happens that I can start from the Chaffee and lo and behold I can jump from the Chaffee to the tier 6 arty, the M44. So I can use the Chaffee to grind out the LT missions and at the same time grind out the xp on the M44 which I should have unlocked by the time the snappy titled 105 leFH18B2 runs out of steam. GENIUS!
This has to be a good plan because it's the road I have chosen :-) The Chaffee is a laugh so there was no pain in the HMC grind. Also the T37 is great as well - heading towards the bulldog and stopping there - The T8 looks too one dimensional. The HMC is hit and miss. When you hit it's good. When...And here is where I introduce part 2 of my cunning plan.
I am also progressing the Light tank missions and although I have a Luchs, ELC AMX and an AMX 13 90, I need to expand my arsenal and I do want to get a Walker Bulldog.
It just so happens that I can start from the Chaffee and lo and behold I can jump from the Chaffee to the tier 6 arty, the M44. So I can use the Chaffee to grind out the LT missions and at the same time grind out the xp on the M44 which I should have unlocked by the time the snappy titled 105 leFH18B2 runs out of steam. GENIUS!
I am not a fan of the scumbag code but the missions require their usage. As such I have been destroying my hit percentages etc... The second set of missions definitely need something with proper splash.
Also - I know the WoT playerbase is such a kind and considerate community - but there seems to be more vileness of character on show at the moment. For example if these guys were genies I would have died of something nasty (select favoured disease/illness of the week here...) about 3000 times. Maybe its because I have increased the scumbag playtime?
Rabidfish said:
Also - I know the WoT playerbase is such a kind and considerate community - but there seems to be more vileness of character on show at the moment. For example if these guys were genies I would have died of something nasty (select favoured disease/illness of the week here...) about 3000 times. Maybe its because I have increased the scumbag playtime?
These missions have increased the amount of scumbags playing the game as everyone is playing arty whether they hate it or not, including me.My own scumbaggery has attracted very little vitreol so far, probably because I am spectacularly inept at the mode and largely not a threat to anyone. I do feel dirty every time I do manage to smack someone however.
I know exactly what you mean. Arty is really a different game to the rest of WoT and it's not much of a challenge either. In terms of difficulty I'd say it's in this order: SPGs, TDs, heavies, mediums, lights.
I've gone for the Lefurhur and GW Panther combo too. You can do a lot of the missions with the Lefurhur, but something like the GW Panther is essential for doing the later ones - E.g. damaging 2 tanks with one shot or doing over 2k damage.
My French SPG crew is fully trained and 82% on their first set of skills. My GW Panther crew is now up to 89% trained (+10% boost because I give them some of the chocolate I've had stockpiled for ages). The first 5 rounds are premium because of their extra splash radius, although in a game last night I was hitting everything directly for once. I hit & burnt out a T69 for all his 1350 XP, then finished off an M103 and squished the enemy GW Panther. In total it was just over 2K damage in just 3 shots.
I also have the tier 3 US arty, the M7 Priest, as I may progress down that line. The tier 9 M53/M55 is quite a nasty turreted TD that would be useful on subsequent arty missions.
I haven't tried the Battle Assistant arty mod yet either.
Fane said:
Sounds like a plan, Alan. There was some discussion on this a few pages back, and I've gone for the IEFH and GW Panther combo. I'm actually stuck at the platoon stage now, but haven't got the time until the weekend to platoon properly.
I also need to do the platoon bits, so we can work on that together. I've gone for the Lefurhur and GW Panther combo too. You can do a lot of the missions with the Lefurhur, but something like the GW Panther is essential for doing the later ones - E.g. damaging 2 tanks with one shot or doing over 2k damage.
My French SPG crew is fully trained and 82% on their first set of skills. My GW Panther crew is now up to 89% trained (+10% boost because I give them some of the chocolate I've had stockpiled for ages). The first 5 rounds are premium because of their extra splash radius, although in a game last night I was hitting everything directly for once. I hit & burnt out a T69 for all his 1350 XP, then finished off an M103 and squished the enemy GW Panther. In total it was just over 2K damage in just 3 shots.
I also have the tier 3 US arty, the M7 Priest, as I may progress down that line. The tier 9 M53/M55 is quite a nasty turreted TD that would be useful on subsequent arty missions.
I haven't tried the Battle Assistant arty mod yet either.
Battle assistant gives a different perspective - it doesn't increase your accuracy. It does make things a bit easier so worth getting.
Over-scumbagging has done nothing but destroy my win rate. Despite being just clicking (and it really is just clicking)its very hard to win if your side decides to die in minute one. Some nights that just happens.
Stress relief in the 62a/140 takes some of the self loathing away. But not much.
"Tonight Matthew I will be getting abuse from a collection of foul-mouthed international racists dragged from the bowels of the web".
But it's still fun...
Over-scumbagging has done nothing but destroy my win rate. Despite being just clicking (and it really is just clicking)its very hard to win if your side decides to die in minute one. Some nights that just happens.
Stress relief in the 62a/140 takes some of the self loathing away. But not much.
"Tonight Matthew I will be getting abuse from a collection of foul-mouthed international racists dragged from the bowels of the web".
But it's still fun...
Rabidfish said:
Battle assistant gives a different perspective - it doesn't increase your accuracy. It does make things a bit easier so worth getting.
Over-scumbagging has done nothing but destroy my win rate. Despite being just clicking (and it really is just clicking)its very hard to win if your side decides to die in minute one. Some nights that just happens.
Stress relief in the 62a/140 takes some of the self loathing away. But not much.
"Tonight Matthew I will be getting abuse from a collection of foul-mouthed international racists dragged from the bowels of the web".
But it's still fun...
I was having this discussion on the Xbox forum last night.Over-scumbagging has done nothing but destroy my win rate. Despite being just clicking (and it really is just clicking)its very hard to win if your side decides to die in minute one. Some nights that just happens.
Stress relief in the 62a/140 takes some of the self loathing away. But not much.
"Tonight Matthew I will be getting abuse from a collection of foul-mouthed international racists dragged from the bowels of the web".
But it's still fun...
If arty takes no skill, how come some players do consistently very well, and others do consistently badly in it? RNG is a factor over low numbers of games, but when you're comparing players with hundreds or thousands of battles, RNG is no longer a factor. Pls answer.
I think the answer may be a combination of effective platooning, experience and a decent crew. Good players are exactly that.
A keen arty player with thousands of battles in that class is going to be better than somebody like me - but not by much. However over thousands of battles in the right arty I think you would trend towards the "better" arty players class win rate.
Artillery is harder to carry - easier to play. There are nuances to playing it well such as initial positioning to pre-aiming spots you know will be hot and taking the time to aim fully. They are also critical in a tense endgame. But that's it. I don't really despise scumbaggery like some - but the gameplay is clicking and hoping the RNG rolls big. Arty can be game breaking in impact - but you still need somebody to light targets up. It's more team dependent than any other class. It takes less skill and more patience. A mate of mine (another PH'er)likes playing arty and argues it requires skill. I prefer mediums because they really do require skill and more importantly they are enjoyable to play.
A keen arty player with thousands of battles in that class is going to be better than somebody like me - but not by much. However over thousands of battles in the right arty I think you would trend towards the "better" arty players class win rate.
Artillery is harder to carry - easier to play. There are nuances to playing it well such as initial positioning to pre-aiming spots you know will be hot and taking the time to aim fully. They are also critical in a tense endgame. But that's it. I don't really despise scumbaggery like some - but the gameplay is clicking and hoping the RNG rolls big. Arty can be game breaking in impact - but you still need somebody to light targets up. It's more team dependent than any other class. It takes less skill and more patience. A mate of mine (another PH'er)likes playing arty and argues it requires skill. I prefer mediums because they really do require skill and more importantly they are enjoyable to play.
Personally I wouldn't say Arty is skill less, it's just a smaller set of skills compared to say a medium tank. To me Arty requires:
- The ability to read the flow of battle and use the map
- Knowledge of maps / likely enemy positions
- preplanning so that you are aimed largely in advance of spots / ensuring you have clear trajectories to the target
- awareness of appropriate target prioritisation
Like any set of skills people can always be good or bad at these, and good arty players will demonstrate them more than bad ones.
The 'skill less' argument comes in because a) none of the above are particularly hard to do if you are focussed on what you are doing and have played any meaningful number of battles and b) there is still a big RNG roll at the end of it which has, if successful, a very big payoff.
For a medium tank you need the skills above, but also:
- coordination of tank movement, turret movement, armour angles & terrain
- awareness of defensive play (much more likely people will be shooting at you)
- awareness of weak spots on targets
but you get a smaller, albeit more predictable, reward for higher risk.
These extra skills are also not that hard to develop, but its still a larger set of skills. As such, people will view Arty as easier and those who might struggle with the larger skill set can still be effective in Arty. Of course there may be people who suck largely at the arty set and very good at the medium specific set too, but they will generally die quickly having got 1 / 2 shots away doing very little in the grand scheme of things.
Combined with the "even when they get lucky" big payoff of scoring direct arty hits, and the longer time in battle of arty compared to a fail medium, means that even very bad players can have a bigger impact on a battle in Arty than in a medium tank. That really winds some people up. Take SirFoch as an example. If he meets some bad player while both in object 140's (say) he will probably run rings around them and come out on top 9 times out of 10. But bad player in a tier 10 arty could take him out without ever being spotted, perhaps displaying bad prioritisation and shooting a 140 on the move at 50km/h having been lucky to be preaimed in a random spot. SirFoch will not be happy and the skilless arty rant goes on (not picking on Foch, but you know what I mean). Of course that might happen one time in a hundred, but it does happen and feeds into the general bad players do better in arty consensus.
tl:dr - bad players always will be bad, good players always better. But the required skill set to have a big impact is smaller in Arty so its easier for the bads to do relatively well, which winds up (some) of the goods.
Edited by bstb3 on Thursday 26th February 19:29
As someone who does not like arty and someone who believes it breaks gameplay and should be removed from the game, I will nevertheless be the first to concede that it does require skill to play well.
Having dabbled at arty play over the past few weeks thanks to the infernal Individual Missions, I can see better than ever that it does require skills to do it well and is more than just clicking now and again while reading a book, watching TV, cooking dinner or whatever.
Knowing where to position initially, when to relocate, when to attempt or avoid counter battery.
Knowing where and when to pre-aim, how to lead a target, anticipating the ebb and flow of the battle, where needs your support most.
Identifying the priority targets, understanding your gun arcs and travel time.
These skills separate the wheat from the chaff and I find myself firmly in the chaff camp
That being said I still believe that the game would be much better if there were no arty at all, but arty is in the game, will stay in the game and I have to use my skills to avoid it, while saluting good arty play on either side.
Having dabbled at arty play over the past few weeks thanks to the infernal Individual Missions, I can see better than ever that it does require skills to do it well and is more than just clicking now and again while reading a book, watching TV, cooking dinner or whatever.
Knowing where to position initially, when to relocate, when to attempt or avoid counter battery.
Knowing where and when to pre-aim, how to lead a target, anticipating the ebb and flow of the battle, where needs your support most.
Identifying the priority targets, understanding your gun arcs and travel time.
These skills separate the wheat from the chaff and I find myself firmly in the chaff camp
That being said I still believe that the game would be much better if there were no arty at all, but arty is in the game, will stay in the game and I have to use my skills to avoid it, while saluting good arty play on either side.
Lets not dignify the ignoble art of sky-piggery with more credit than it's due 
. Yes there is a bit of skill involved. Timing the click. But we all know that a perfect fully aimed centre mass shot (now using battle assistant its even easier) to the side of their biggest heavy misses by a country mile. Not at all RNG dependent...
Repeat for whole game.
Next game you take a snap shot at the deck of an immediate threat fast moving light tank and hit it for full health. Loads of skill or was RNG just messing about again?
All the stuff about positioning, flow and map awareness should be known to the player no matter what class is being played. It's not specific to arty. Shell arc and where to make best use it yes. But now battle assistant takes the guess work away.
Mind you I understand the fun of splatting Edna Waffleburger for full health. It is quite satisfying to one shot something. Though non of my current arty could splat a t10 in one hit.
. Yes there is a bit of skill involved. Timing the click. But we all know that a perfect fully aimed centre mass shot (now using battle assistant its even easier) to the side of their biggest heavy misses by a country mile. Not at all RNG dependent...Repeat for whole game.
Next game you take a snap shot at the deck of an immediate threat fast moving light tank and hit it for full health. Loads of skill or was RNG just messing about again?
All the stuff about positioning, flow and map awareness should be known to the player no matter what class is being played. It's not specific to arty. Shell arc and where to make best use it yes. But now battle assistant takes the guess work away.
Mind you I understand the fun of splatting Edna Waffleburger for full health. It is quite satisfying to one shot something. Though non of my current arty could splat a t10 in one hit.
However you look at it, arty is necessary to balance the game and as such must remain. I actually think it's well balanced at the moment... In that it's not a pain for you every game but every now and then you take a hit to remind you of its presence, most notably when you have got into a great position and are about to cause the enemy a serious problem. Yes this feels frustrating but at the same time it provides balance. Think of those occasions when you find yourself facing up to a hull down jge100.... What do you do then? Arty does take quite a bit of skill to be effective in, probably more so than a lot of other tanks, and for every game where you get a great 1 shot, you have 5 or more where you are lucky to land 2 hits... Just sucks to be in that tank who got 1 shot.
I hate the term clicker as well. Everyone clicks on the enemy, its not as if you don't have to aim any less (probably more in a lot of cases, and certainly more than those who are liberal in the use of gold ammo).
PS, I'm not really an arty lover, I have 1 in my garage for missions. But I understand its a key dynamic of the game.
I hate the term clicker as well. Everyone clicks on the enemy, its not as if you don't have to aim any less (probably more in a lot of cases, and certainly more than those who are liberal in the use of gold ammo).
PS, I'm not really an arty lover, I have 1 in my garage for missions. But I understand its a key dynamic of the game.
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