Destiny (PS4)

[lovechild]

Flat-out said:

I'll be on throughout the day tomorrow

We're gonna do a couple of runs early tomorrow if there's people on (10-11:00ish).

I've got a Sony Bravia in my bedroom. It's looks and performs very well to my untrained eye.

£300 for calibration does seem expensive, but at 8% of the cost of the tv not horrendous I suppose. At that cost though, I'd be finding out where Krypton or Sims live and see if some arrangement could be made

[youngsyr]

Guvernator said:

HRL said:

Useful info

Thanks great stuff, I actually quite enjoy a good session of Crucible so LM farming it is

Quite fancy an upgraded Thorn and may convert a few other bits but will probably not bother with a lot of the others if raid drops are higher light.

Now swords, talk to me? Are they worth the effort as it looks like a bit of a farming exercise which I always find very boring?

Hand Cannons are very much last season - they were nerfed as part of TTK patch. Give pulse rifles a go in the Crucible - Red Death is a beast.

All weapons and armour is equal (in terms of balanced) in the Crucible, so Y1 weapons are just as powerful as Y2 versions.

[youngsyr]

HRL said:

Guvernator said:

Are the Y2 upgraded exotics as good as the best new gear you get from raids\drops or are the newer exotics\legendaries better?

I've found out how to upgrade to Y2 but looks like you need A LOT of legendary marks to upgrade, what's the best way to farm LM?

A bit disappointed that The Last Word is not upgradeable, was probably one of my favourite weapons from year one although I've heard it's still quite useful in PvP?

All standard Y2 exotic weapons and armour are at 290. That Black Spindle exotic sniper rifle was apparently dropping with 310 but that was patched out at the end of last week and is now a 290 drop too.

The raid sniper rifle, Defiance of Yasmin, dropped for me at 302, the shotgun, Silence of A'arn, at 305. Yep, 150 marks for a Y2 exotic is a lot. I can't stand PvP in Destiny but I've been doing the daily Crucible matches that provide either 10 or 15 marks each time daily just to accrue the marks for Truth, as well as cherry picking the odd Quest that rewards marks too.

Hopefully I'll get most of the others as drops but as I don't have an exotic heavy, and my current highest is a solar 286, a 290 Truth with decent tracking seems like a sensible purchase for now.

Y1 weapons and exotics are still perfectly usable in the Crucible as the damage is equal regardless, but not so in the Iron Banner. You'd want new weapons only in there for sure.

Worth bearing in mind that you can "infuse" Y2 Exotic and legendary items, i.e. dismantle an unwanted higher level item and transfer its level across to your lower level legendary/exotic.

E.g. take a 280 exotic and a 290 Rare (blue) item of the same class and infuse the Rare into the exotic, you will end up with something like a 286 exotic. You can repeat this process as often as you like to keep increasing your exotic's level, but it costs legendary marks and base materials each time. Some of my exotics that dropped at 280 are now 295.

[SimianWonder]

lovechild said:

£300 for calibration does seem expensive, but at 8% of the cost of the tv not horrendous I suppose. At that cost though, I'd be finding out where Krypton or Sims live and see if some arrangement could be made

It is expensive, but if you're spending several thousand on a TV, why on earth would you not pay a little more to get the absolute best out of it? It'd be like buying a £200,000 supercar and only putting boggo 95 unleaded in it.

That said, I've always calibrated my own TVs. Most TVs in showrooms are cranked up to emphasise what they think the consumer wants, when in reality they all look ridiculous with colour bleed, blooming and over-saturation evident on most of them - and the same holds true when you get them out of the box. If you're on a budget, you can buy DVDs that will help you set up most TVs to a relatively high standard for around £20-30. They won;t be tailored to your individual needs, but they'll get you most of the way there and are a great way to learn your way around the basics.

Oh, and Singh, that looks like a great choice. I'd a tiny bit jealous, even if I'm a Samsung man!

Edited by SimianWonder on Monday 28th September 19:29

[Flat-out]

I wouldn't be for 2 reasons:-

1. The Samsung OLED has the better picture without doubt. I'm struggling to see how they can possibly improve it. I was blown away and will probably go for a Samsung for the lounge in due course.

2. I can't afford it!

LC- I shall be around then.

Youngs- what are you using for PvP!? I'm struggling to find a primary that I feel comfortable with. I like Praedthy's Timepiece but, thinking ahead, this will not cut it in IB or ToO. I need a new (280 light+) pulse rifle that I can start practising with. I have and really rate the Apple of Discord but sometimes REALLY suck with it. I'm sure there is something better out there. Maybe Red Death is it.

[lovechild]

SimianWonder said:

It is expensive, but if you're spending several thousand on a TV, why on earth would you not pay a little more to get the absolute best out of it? It'd be like buying a £200,000 supercar and only putting boggo 95 unleaded in it.

lovechild said:

£300 for calibration does seem expensive, but at 8% of the cost of the tv not horrendous I suppose.

We're saying the same thing aren't we? If the cost of calibration (£300) is greater than 20% of the tv, I would argue that the tv isn't good enough to warrant the cost and the cheaper alternative would be acceptable. At around £4k I would say it's not entirely unreasonable. £30 for a cd is peanuts whatever you use it for. I would have reservations about a £300 tune for a tv worth less than £2k though.

How much time and expertise is involved in a £300 calibration? Me being a layman I would suggest not £300 worth, and the price is a reflection of the clientele and product cost at the top end of the audio/visual market. This obviously applies to the top end of most products, cars, watches, food etc. Some of my lunch bills would horrify people, and that's due to quality rather than quantity before anyone says it

It's the law of diminishing returns that applies to all of the finer things in life. Does a £4000 tv do the job 10 times better than a £400 one? Does a £20,000 Jaeger tell the time 1000 times better than a £20 Gshock? No. They're still worth it though.

It just didn't occur to me that a normal tv could be calibrated to the tune of £300. I'd have to see examples of before and afters to judge whether £300 was worth it over the standard picture, or indeed the £30 cd option........ I reckon we need a 'post calibration party' round Singh's new house

[Digitalize]

Flat-out said:

I wouldn't be for 2 reasons:-

1. The Samsung OLED has the better picture without doubt. I'm struggling to see how they can possibly improve it. I was blown away and will probably go for a Samsung for the lounge in due course.

Samsung don't make OLED TVs, and have no imminent plans to. LG are the only option. OLED blows LCD out of the water by a country mile.

[lovechild]

Flat-out said:

LC- I shall be around then.

It's a date.

Don't like Apple. Red Death does seem to be the obvious choice, although I'm still using Hawkmoon at the mo.

[SimianWonder]

Flat-out said:

I wouldn't be for 2 reasons:-

1. The Samsung OLED has the better picture without doubt. I'm struggling to see how they can possibly improve it. I was blown away and will probably go for a Samsung for the lounge in due course.

2. I can't afford it!

When has that ever stopped a bloke from getting something he really wants?

And yes, for my money, Samsung typically look the best, on both fronts; image quality and in design of the TV itself. My own 55" Sammy was miles ahead of the competition when I bought it three years ago, but such is the march of technology that the most recent high-end 4K HD sets are capable of images that make mine feel like a 14" portable. The design is still fantastic though.

I did almost buy a 65" curved 4K a few weeks ago, but decided I'd probably better spend the money of the GTA, which has been in dire need of a new exhaust for about three years!


[quote]Youngs- what are you using for PvP!? I'm struggling to find a primary that I feel comfortable with. I like Praedthy's Timepiece but, thinking ahead, this will not cut it in IB or ToO. I need a new (280 light+) pulse rifle that I can start practising with. I have and really rate the Apple of Discord but sometimes REALLY suck with it. I'm sure there is something better out there. Maybe Red Death is it.

I managed to bag myself The Villainy, a Future War Cult pulse rifle, that came with Spray and play, and Danger Close, the new perk that dramatically increases reload and handling when two or more enemies are in close proximity. It also has Hand-Laid stock, so while the range takes a bit of a hit, it has maximum stability. Mine is currently sitting at 297 attack, and is superb in both PvE and PvP.

[Flat-out]

Digitalize said:

Samsung don't make OLED TVs, and have no imminent plans to. LG are the only option. OLED blows LCD out of the water by a country mile.

My bad . I assumed it was an OLED as the picture was so good. This was the jobbie:-

http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/samsu...

Incredible bit of kit. I deffo can't afford that!

Calibration party sounds good . The conversation with the missus will be something like this, I imagine:-

"I'm having a party. We're having a party"

"Oh right, who's coming?! Anybody I know!? Can my friends come!?"

"There'll be Sex pest, Lovechild, Speckle (if he's no longer in denial that he's hooked again) and a few others. You know. The internet guys. So, erm, no and no"

".... Oooooookay. Errrr, why!?"

"To compare TV settings, durrrr "

Yep. Seems like a plan.

In all seriousness, I'll probably get this done and will provide you guys with my honest opinion. Based on what I've achieved so far (knowing nothing at all), I can see it being of some considerable benefit.

Hmmmm. I may give Hawkmoon another try but the last time wasn't fun. Kind of like getting back with a girl that has had her face re-arranged by a bus in the interim. She'll be familiar but not quite as good.

Ouch.

[Flat-out]

Y'know, I've never clicked on anybody's profile to see what people drive.

GTA?! Now I'm the jealous one. Excellent work.

Top tip, thanks. My hunter is a FWC we so I'll try to bag one when I start on him.

[Dick Dastardly]

No idea how or why it happened, but my old MIDA Multitool has become my go-to Crucible primary. I must be the only person rocking it in P2P but I'm getting some of my best ever scores with it.

I started up my second character earlier, a Titan. I was fed up of their unfair advantage (fire hammers rock in crucible) so thought I'd join in. Within an hour he was L40 and about 260 light. So much quicker the second time round.

[SimianWonder]

lovechild said:

We're saying the same thing aren't we? If the cost of calibration (£300) is greater than 20% of the tv, I would argue that the tv isn't good enough to warrant the cost and the cheaper alternative would be acceptable. At around £4k I would say it's not entirely unreasonable. £30 for a cd is peanuts whatever you use it for. I would have reservations about a £300 tune for a tv worth less than £2k though.

Apologies if I misunderstood, but yeah, we're singing off the same hymn sheet.

Flat-out said:

Y'know, I've never clicked on anybody's profile to see what people drive.

GTA?! Now I'm the jealous one. Excellent work.

Top tip, thanks. My hunter is a FWC we so I'll try to bag one when I start on him.

My 147 GTA was an unloved example rescued from a guy who had no idea how to look after something non-run-of-the-mill. I've spent a hell of a lot of money on it, way more than the initial purchase price, getting it just so, and my car even got featured in EVO magazine a couple of years ago (issue 187, to be precise!). That day was a hell of a lot of fun, and by heck can some of those guys drive!

As for jealously, try talking to Stimps or Speck about their rides. Hell, Stimps has had more nice cars than I've had hot dinners!

FWC FTW! I do note though, that their gear is no longer a strict Intellect / Discipline split, which is why I swore by them early-doors. They're still my main though.

Dick Dastardly said:

No idea how or why it happened, but my old MIDA Multitool has become my go-to Crucible primary. I must be the only person rocking it in P2P but I'm getting some of my best ever scores with it.

I started up my second character earlier, a Titan. I was fed up of their unfair advantage (fire hammers rock in crucible) so thought I'd join in. Within an hour he was L40 and about 260 light. So much quicker the second time round.

Mida was always great in PvP, the only real downside to it now is that come Trials or Iron Banner, it'll be a major handicap. Same story with Hardlight, as Moog mentioned before. It's fantastic now, it just won't do much work outside of basic Crucible modes.

My Hunter and Titan are sitting at mid 280s in terms of light level, and I've only done two story missions and the subclass unlock with each. Oh, and I did run a sneaky Nightfall with them yesterday. The rest of it has been passing them excess engrams from the Warlock Master-Race, and using them to quickly gain and infuse higher quality gear, though the Hunter did manage to snag a 300 defence set of gauntlets from the aforementioned Nightfall.

[Guvernator]

Right up to 228 light so going up slowly but surely. Forgot how much fun PvP was but I seem to be seriously lacking in practice and think I brought the wrong tools for the job. I used to own with HC's but this doesn't seem to be working any more. Is there a decent HC for PvP? If not what else should I be using?

Also the new factions, I'm assuming I should join up ASAP but which one? My main is a sunseeker Titan.

Also someone sent me an invite yesterday I think but I didn't recognise the username, anyone from on here?

[Moog72]

Guvernator said:

Right up to 228 light so going up slowly but surely. Forgot how much fun PvP was but I seem to be seriously lacking in practice and think I brought the wrong tools for the job. I used to own with HC's but this doesn't seem to be working any more. Is there a decent HC for PvP? If not what else should I be using?

Also the new factions, I'm assuming I should join up ASAP but which one? My main is a sunseeker Titan.

Also someone sent me an invite yesterday I think but I didn't recognise the username, anyone from on here?

All hand cannons were nerfed to hell with the 2.0 patch, with a couple of the exotics (Last Word / Thorn) receiving additional nerfs to basically try and stop everyone in the Crucible using them all of the time. Hawkmoon still kills me from time to time and someone was trying (and failing) to use Thorn yesterday evening

Most people either use an auto rifle these days (I like Hardlight) or a pulse rifle of some kind with Red Death being pretty lethal in the right hands. MIDA Multi Tool is good at range if you like scout rifles

Factions - there is no right answer - take a look at each's inventory and go with the one who has the gear you most fancy. Dead Orbit's Hung Jury scout rifle is nice for example, FWC has a decent rocket launcher I've read

[Guvernator]

Moog72 said:

All hand cannons were nerfed to hell with the 2.0 patch, with a couple of the exotics (Last Word / Thorn) receiving additional nerfs to basically try and stop everyone in the Crucible using them all of the time. Hawkmoon still kills me from time to time and someone was trying (and failing) to use Thorn yesterday evening

Most people either use an auto rifle these days (I like Hardlight) or a pulse rifle of some kind with Red Death being pretty lethal in the right hands. MIDA Multi Tool is good at range if you like scout rifles

Factions - there is no right answer - take a look at each's inventory and go with the one who has the gear you most fancy. Dead Orbit's Hung Jury scout rifle is nice for example, FWC has a decent rocket launcher I've read

Aha thanks! I was an early adopter of the HC for PvP when the game first launched , didn't realise it had since become a "thing" to the point where it needed nerfing, proves how long I've been out the loop.

I don't really like auto rifles, seem like too much of spray and prey weapon (apologies to AR fans ) and I prefer something which requires a bit more skill so will try to track down a decent PR\SR.

FWC looks to have the kind of stuff I like so I'll stick with them (I think I was FWC before too)

[KryptonKid09]

lovechild said:

We're saying the same thing aren't we? If the cost of calibration (£300) is greater than 20% of the tv, I would argue that the tv isn't good enough to warrant the cost and the cheaper alternative would be acceptable. At around £4k I would say it's not entirely unreasonable. £30 for a cd is peanuts whatever you use it for. I would have reservations about a £300 tune for a tv worth less than £2k though.

How much time and expertise is involved in a £300 calibration? Me being a layman I would suggest not £300 worth, and the price is a reflection of the clientele and product cost at the top end of the audio/visual market. This obviously applies to the top end of most products, cars, watches, food etc. Some of my lunch bills would horrify people, and that's due to quality rather than quantity before anyone says it

It's the law of diminishing returns that applies to all of the finer things in life. Does a £4000 tv do the job 10 times better than a £400 one? Does a £20,000 Jaeger tell the time 1000 times better than a £20 Gshock? No. They're still worth it though.

It just didn't occur to me that a normal tv could be calibrated to the tune of £300. I'd have to see examples of before and afters to judge whether £300 was worth it over the standard picture, or indeed the £30 cd option........ I reckon we need a 'post calibration party' round Singh's new house

It takes me roughly 2 hours to calibrate 1 input on a TV. Granted that's with a video processor that can do 125 point (per primary and secondary colour) colour management but that part is also automated. Adjustments include black level (brightness), white level (contrast), gamma, white balance (greyscale) colour gamut and sharpness. Plus the time it takes to switch off all the picture 'enhancements'. If you have 3 or 4 inputs, a Pro will calibrate them all so it's a days work ultimately.
That's why it's important to start with a good base and a lot of the manufacturers are getting close out the box now. You can't polish a turd though (although you can shape it...).

It's a shame you guys aren't closer as I'd calibrate all your panels for free. I guarantee you would notice the difference too.
Which reminds me, need to hassle my brother some more to calibrate his projector...

Paul

ETA: A Pro's gear would be very expensive. You're looking at circa £6k for a good spectrophotometer and upwards of £300 for the software to drive it. Plus the costs of the ISF or THX certification. It is a career choice as well as a genuine skill.
I've been into it, as an amateur, for around 10 years and I learn new stuff all the time.

With regards to whether it's worth it on entry level panels, in my opinion it is. My video processor is just under £3k's worth and that's plugged into a £400 TV. The reason I use the processor is that it gives me a huge amount of adjustability to squeeze every little ounce of PQ from the TV. It doesn't actually 'add' anything to the TV's abilities. Realistically I could get 85% to the same result with just the TV as it's a good TV to start with it just doesn't have the adjustability to be a great TV.
When I had my plasma set up with the same processor, I can honestly say that I hadn't and still haven't seen better picture quality, including when compared to 4K/ UHD displays. Again, starting with a good base and honing it with the processor.
LG and Samsung offer vast adjustability out the box and the latter typically offer a good base too. So even though the cost of the calibration may seem high when compared to the cost of the TV, the TV will allow the calibrator to get a great result.

Edited by KryptonKid09 on Tuesday 29th September 13:34

[KryptonKid09]

And back on topic (sorry), tried and failed at the nightfall last night. Need to keep plugging away to get my light level up as was only 278 at the time.

Paul

[lovechild]

KryptonKid09 said:

Stuff

I see. Thanks for the reply.

Excuse my ignorance, but you have an external processor plugged into your tv? Does this adjust things in real time?

KryptonKid09 said:

Realistically I could get 85% to the same result with just the TV as it's a good TV to start with it just doesn't have the adjustability to be a great TV.

That's a helpful quantification. Unless I had an expensive(relative, I know what audio/visual can cost), purpose built set up (which it sounds like Singh is going for) I'd settle for 85%. Although that's without seeing firsthand how big a difference it truly makes..........I'm intrigued.

Edited by lovechild on Tuesday 29th September 19:49

[KryptonKid09]

lovechild said:

I see. Thanks for the reply.

Excuse my ignorance, but you have an external processor plugged into your tv? Does this adjust things in real time?

Yes any adjustment made in the processor will affect real time video.
It's a very clever piece of kit. All sources get plugged into it and it is plugged into the a single input at the TV (via a Darbee Darblet).
Mine's old by today standards. The modern ones can adjust 4096 points of the primary and secondary colours.

lovechild said:

That's a helpful quantification. Unless I had an expensive(relative, I know what audio/visual can cost), purpose built set up (which it sounds like Singh is going for) I'd settle for 85%. Although that's without seeing firsthand how big a difference it truly makes..........I'm intrigued.

The particular Sony(s) I have offer very rudimental calibration controls. 2 point white balance and no colour management system but, are fairly accurate out the box. Around 3 clicks of the white balance gets them within the standard from black to white.
The modern kit from Samsung, LG and Panasonic is much more adjustable so you'd probably get to 90% with those.

I started out being intrigued and asked myself how can they charge that sort of money to adjust the TV. Modern consumer kit allows you to get very accurate results. The meter I use was around £200 and the software about the same. The meter has been corrected against pro level kit so is very accurate.
It's now an obsession. To give you an idea, straying from 'perfect' is given as delta errors (deE) and it's recognised that any dE below 3 is undetectable by the human eye. So essentially if the red primary measured as 3dE you'd not notice when comparing to a 'perfect' red. I aim for 0.1 dE across the board but am happy with 1dE. That's part of why it takes so long. And of course, the more you can adjust, the more time it takes. And every display is calibrated in my house.

Paul

Edited by KryptonKid09 on Wednesday 30th September 00:12

Edited by KryptonKid09 on Wednesday 30th September 00:14