Where has the VR buzz gone?
Discussion
I'm getting 60fps at 2560 x 1600 in Forza but I'm using a NVIDIA Quadro M4000. It's the only program I have which taxes it.
Yes, you do need 4k, perhaps better, perhaps 4k per eye, for VR because you are so close to the screen and the pixels really show.
Of course you also need the super high res screens to do this.
Simon
Yes, you do need 4k, perhaps better, perhaps 4k per eye, for VR because you are so close to the screen and the pixels really show.
Of course you also need the super high res screens to do this.
Simon
Vive is better than 1080(just) it's 2160x1200 (1080x1200 per eye) I think the OR is the same.
It needs a higher resolution. Although I don't think this is a showstopper for adoption as you rarely notice it only when trying to see distant object clearly or read some text.
I think the current res is about right from a pragmatic point of view. Any more pixels and the cost of the screens and the PC to run it would cripple the project. I'm using a 980ti to run my Vive and that chugs on occasion.
It needs a higher resolution. Although I don't think this is a showstopper for adoption as you rarely notice it only when trying to see distant object clearly or read some text.
I think the current res is about right from a pragmatic point of view. Any more pixels and the cost of the screens and the PC to run it would cripple the project. I'm using a 980ti to run my Vive and that chugs on occasion.
red_slr said:
MattyB_ said:
snuffy said:
2) It's too much of a faff
It is a bit of a faff. Getting the headset on, adjusting the straps, getting comfy, find the controllers, launching the game - oh, need the toilet. Take it all off, back, repeat first steps again.I've not picked up my Vive in about a month, there's nothing to warrant me setting it up after I had to box it up. There is also the issue that Roomscale realistically needs 3x3m space, and people in the UK just don't have that much to sacrifice IMO. I've got 2x2.5m and it just doesn't feel big enough. I took it to work, and set it up in our 10x10m training room and it was *massively* better! Proper movement....but I don't live in a mansion...so...back to 2x2.
It still needs maturity, but it's definitely here to stay.
I feel wires might be a big thing. I'd laugh at a mouse and keyboard with a wire attaching it to something, just like you'd fall about if the latest mobile phone had a wire attached to it ! It would be a mega step backwards.
And room space is also an issue. I don't have anywhere that I could use that. And even then I think I'd want to be in a empty room. A room like my living room with all the normal things you get in your living room is not suitable to be walking around and crashing into furniture or knocking books off shelves and sending the clock flying. My garage is the only empty space that would be suitable, and then I have to move my car and again, what about the wires ?
It's all too much of a faff.
Edited by snuffy on Monday 3rd October 11:25
Edited by snuffy on Monday 3rd October 11:27
What you really want is variable resolution. The eye is pretty poor at the edges and very good at the centre. So we need something which wraps around to encompass the full field of view but does not need to be high res much beyond the middle.
From Wikipedia: For both eyes the combined visual field is 130-135° vertical and 200° horizontal.
As an aside we are very much better at spotting movement at the periphery than at the centre.
Simon
From Wikipedia: For both eyes the combined visual field is 130-135° vertical and 200° horizontal.
As an aside we are very much better at spotting movement at the periphery than at the centre.
Simon
The issue with VR and frame rates is movement. Your head is always moving so it puts a heck of a load on GPU.
A 1080 will run most games in 4k at 60fps. It will run 1080p at 150+fps. But throw VR at it and you are lucky to see solid 90fps, generally as low as 40fps at times. Given we are seeing a 20-30% performance boost with each iteration of GTX card I think we are at least 2 generations away from a resolution increase.
The current resolution is no where near good enough. I think 4k will even be an issue with some games. At current resolution if you are playing Onward and you are 200m away from a target its just a bunch of pixels in the middle of your eye. Maybe 10x10 pixels, if that. At 4k I guess that's going to be better by many multiples but still enough to get a good image - I think not. It will make it a lot, lot more playable though.
Regarding room scale, I agree that for the majority of people its a PITA. I am lucky in that I have a spare room which is empty other than my PC. Moving furniture etc would get old quickly. That said, its totally worth it. Room scale really is where VR comes alive.
A 1080 will run most games in 4k at 60fps. It will run 1080p at 150+fps. But throw VR at it and you are lucky to see solid 90fps, generally as low as 40fps at times. Given we are seeing a 20-30% performance boost with each iteration of GTX card I think we are at least 2 generations away from a resolution increase.
The current resolution is no where near good enough. I think 4k will even be an issue with some games. At current resolution if you are playing Onward and you are 200m away from a target its just a bunch of pixels in the middle of your eye. Maybe 10x10 pixels, if that. At 4k I guess that's going to be better by many multiples but still enough to get a good image - I think not. It will make it a lot, lot more playable though.
Regarding room scale, I agree that for the majority of people its a PITA. I am lucky in that I have a spare room which is empty other than my PC. Moving furniture etc would get old quickly. That said, its totally worth it. Room scale really is where VR comes alive.
I have very little interest in room scale at home as
1) I don't have the space
2) I'm a lazy gamer and it's too much of a faff. I play games so I can chill out on the couch\chair.
However I would definitely go to a dedicated arcade\laser tag arena to play it as they will have the space and it will be more of a day\evening out type event.
I also suspect the resolution problem will be solved not just by more powerful hardware but also by use of clever techniques to make the most efficient use of that power. As mentioned above only the bits you are focusing on need really high-res and I've read they are already working on eye tracking and variable resolution techniques to mimic this more closely. If you only need to render a small part of the screen at 4k and the rest can be a lot lower then that will make it a lot easier to render. We are still in the infancy of this current gen of VR, I expect things will develop very rapidly from this point. I can't wait to see what we end up with in 5 years.
1) I don't have the space
2) I'm a lazy gamer and it's too much of a faff. I play games so I can chill out on the couch\chair.
However I would definitely go to a dedicated arcade\laser tag arena to play it as they will have the space and it will be more of a day\evening out type event.
I also suspect the resolution problem will be solved not just by more powerful hardware but also by use of clever techniques to make the most efficient use of that power. As mentioned above only the bits you are focusing on need really high-res and I've read they are already working on eye tracking and variable resolution techniques to mimic this more closely. If you only need to render a small part of the screen at 4k and the rest can be a lot lower then that will make it a lot easier to render. We are still in the infancy of this current gen of VR, I expect things will develop very rapidly from this point. I can't wait to see what we end up with in 5 years.
Guvernator said:
Does VR absolutely need 4k though? The current Vive and OR aren't even 1080p per eye are they and they are almost there. I think the sweet spot will be 1440p per eye.
The most important issue for me is more eliminating the screen door by getting the (sub)pixels closer - so the resolution isn't too bad, but removing the SDE would be a 'better' solution without needing massive GFX/bandwidth requirements.Guvernator said:
However I would definitely go to a dedicated arcade\laser tag arena to play it as they will have the space and it will be more of a day\evening out type event.
You see, this is where I feel something like the MS HoloLens and Augmented Reality could really take off.Instead of putting you in a virtual world, imagine you and a few mates running around an abandoned town in real life and they've augmented AI soldiers/vehicles overlayed on the real world? It'd be incredible. Give you real weapons with blanks to give you even greater immersion.
I do wonder if AR has more potential than VR...Microsoft seems to think so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aThCr0PsyuA
MattyB_ said:
Guvernator said:
However I would definitely go to a dedicated arcade\laser tag arena to play it as they will have the space and it will be more of a day\evening out type event.
You see, this is where I feel something like the MS HoloLens and Augmented Reality could really take off.Instead of putting you in a virtual world, imagine you and a few mates running around an abandoned town in real life and they've augmented AI soldiers/vehicles overlayed on the real world? It'd be incredible. Give you real weapons with blanks to give you even greater immersion.
I do wonder if AR has more potential than VR...Microsoft seems to think so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aThCr0PsyuA
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