In the deep end (a photography challenge)

[trashbat]

Definitely shoot RAW. The more photography and processing you do, the more you learn, and shooting RAW means you can go back later and make a much better job of it - including fixing some in-camera mistakes.

[Simpo Two]

RenesisEvo said:

(also am I correct in saying that with 1.6 crop factor on APS-C, that 70-200 is more like 112-360?)

Sort of, but all your experiences I suspect are with the same size sensor so it will just be proprotionally longer (ie about 4x longer than 55mm). Remember that the longer the lens, the more camera shake becomes an issue expecially in low light. IS/VR can't freeze subject movement.

[honest_delboy]

Just to echo what everyone else says above, low light in the venue, rain outside, backup solution, familiarity with all your gear. From time to time you get kits on ebay where people have added flash, tripod, primes, faster lenses. Maybe worth considering as you can keep what you like, get a new body and ebay the rest.

Having access to the B&G and venue prior to the event is a massive bonus. Do a test run at roughly the same time of day the wedding will take place, come back and review those photos. Do it soon though so you have more time to plan/change your strategy.

I did my 3rd wedding at the weekend, i struggled with the main venue being dimly lit from only one side and dark paneling all over the place. flash looked terrible (probably due to my inexperience). I ashamed to say i ballsed up one or two critical shots being too slow on the draw and not being able to setup quickly enough. You pretty much have to prempt where they're going to be at certain time and already have it on your head how your going to cope with each lighting situation.

Good luck

[Rogue86]

I'm going to play devils advocate here and say you'll probably be fine. 45 people isn't many and frankly these days if you shoot at a wide open aperture and black/white the images afterwards, most people will fawn endlessly over the pictures regardless if they're any good. They're obviously prepared to take a hit on the standard of their wedding photos (we have to remember that photography doesn't mean much to a lot of people) so you'll likely only be shooting candids. Any groups they want, they'll organise themselves.

Be comfortable with upping the ISO, shoot in Aperture priority, shoot on a longer focal length where you can, have fun.

[honest_delboy]

^^^ What he says, a decent mantelpiece photo and a good shot with the sets of parents. Outside group shot with no one blinking and they should be happy. If not, refund them!

[matt3001]

Slightly off topic, but I chip in because I am in the market for my first dSLR. Mainly just for holiday snaps and motorsport (attending a few European WRC events).

Still debating a new 600d as a kit or a 50d, but tending more towards the newer camera.

I currently just use a Panny TZ20 which has about 14-16x opti zoom. What kind of zoom lens do I need to get to the same reach? Not that I really go to its extreme, but good to have that ability.

[Flibble]

matt3001 said:

Slightly off topic, but I chip in because I am in the market for my first dSLR. Mainly just for holiday snaps and motorsport (attending a few European WRC events).

Still debating a new 600d as a kit or a 50d, but tending more towards the newer camera.

I currently just use a Panny TZ20 which has about 14-16x opti zoom. What kind of zoom lens do I need to get to the same reach? Not that I really go to its extreme, but good to have that ability.

600D is a good choice of first body.

TZ20 lens is 35mm equiv of 24-384mm so you'll need 15-240mm on a crop sensor dSLR to get the same range. You're best off grabbing at least two lenses to get that range as afaik none of the really wide range zoom go as wide as 15mm and they tend to be compromise lenses anyway. Maybe grab the 15-85 and a 70-200 or 70-300 to go with it.

[RenesisEvo]

Flibble said:

Maybe grab the 15-85 and a 70-200 or 70-300 to go with it.

I'm still undecided between the 70-200 f4 (better low light performance), a 70-300 (more reach) or the 55-250 (much cheaper and more flexible). Would it be a bad idea to get the 70-200 L without IS?

I have borrowed a 550D again (with 18-55) and have a week to experiment. I've also been playing with Lightroom 5 beta, quite impressed with it so far (see below). I have access to Photoshop but it's very apparent that LR would be far better at managing many RAW files.

Straight from the camera (S6500fd, top), and after:

[Simpo Two]

RenesisEvo said:

Would it be a bad idea to get the 70-200 L without IS?

I shoot weddings with a 70-200 that doesn't have stabilisation and seem to get by. But it will be more useful on the 70-300 as you have (a) more magnifcation (b) slower shutter speeds.

[Flibble]

I have the 70-300 and the IS is nice, but I don't do a great deal of shooting with it so I'm not sure if it's worth the trade off really.

[Disastrous]

A terrifying prospect!

I work with a few professional camera operators and their worst nightmare is when they get asked to 'just do a wee film of our wedding' by friends and family...

All of them run a mile from it (whilst occasionally covering each other's on the basis that the groom edits!) as the disconnect between expectation and results is simply too high.

You can be a guest or a photog but not both, I think. As many have said above, going as a guest with a camera and taking some 'surprisingly' good shots would be a good way out maybe?

Kudos if you pull it off though. Being responsible for anything to do with a girls's big day makes me sweat!

[Harry Flashman]

RenesisEvo said:

So, now for the camera - can anyone recommend one? Should I go for an DSLR? Or something like the Panasonic FZ200? For DSLR I'm leaning towards Canon based on previous experiences, although I'm open to Nikon/Sony etc as I don't have any lenses yet. Budget will be circa £500 for body. Are kit lenses best avoided (e.g. the 18-55)? Is there a better option? Bear in mind once done, I will be aiming to go back to motorsport and automotive photography, with some landscapes thrown in.

Thanks again.

Oh my God.

OP, this has disaster written all over it. DON'T DO IT!!

[mojitomax]

Having recently got married myself and as i have a poor memory, I would suggest to the happy couple that once their own memories of the big day fade they will only have their photographs to remind them.

They will look back through their photos in decades to come and don't want lots of blurry pics etc.

Get them to adjust their spending and spend less on bits and bobs and things and more on a pro photog who will be able to give them something they can look back on in years to come.

We had a mate who was building his portfolio and a pro and lots of great photos.

Just my 2p worth

[Oldred_V8S]

markmullen said:

Regardless of what the B&G say now, they will be expecting professional grade results.

But even if something goes horribly wrong and they are the most understanding people in the world, how would you feel?

[RenesisEvo]

It's been quite a while so here's an update. First apologies I didn't do an ongoing update as planned, I got rather busy at the back end of last year/start of this year, in fact things have only really started to calm down, and that's just before it kicks off again!

After much experimenting with my ageing Fuji I acquired a Canon EOS600d earlier this year. I got a reasonable deal with a 18-55mm non IS and a 70-300mm, again non-IS. I also bought a 50mm f1.8, which is definitely my favourite of the three lenses. To go with that I slowly acquired a new tripod (MeFoto - feels built like a tank), remote and wired releases, numerous batteries and memory cards (16Gb 45Mbps Sandisk Extreme, £10 each) and a bag to lug it all about in. I also bought Adobe Lightroom as I was very impressed with the trial version and it was on offer at the time (£75 rather than £100). I then set about plenty of practice...

... surely he's not going to use those lenses I hear you cry? Correct! I took up a half-price offer from lensesforhire (even before I'd bought the body), and for a week in May I had a 24-70mm F2.8 L and a 70-200mm f2.8 L IS at my disposal. These lenses were superb, although the 70-200 feels very heavy after a solid days' use, the sharpness and amount of light it lets in is so useful. I deliberatly chose to not get an off-camera flash, something I don't regret as I feel there were only one or two situations it would have helped. Feel free to disgree when you see the final results! Pleased with the lenses, I hired them again for the wedding itself. I also borrowed a second body - a 550d, so almost identical to my 600d, so I could easily switch between the 24-70 and the 70-200. Both were set to RAW, spot metering, continuous shooting and generally used in aperture priority.

That week of practice, and much more, plus reading hundreds of articles and lots of kit testing and familiarisation, and scouting the venue with the couple prior to the event itself, meant on the day I was nervous but feeling confident I could do something. The day went fine, I shot less than half the exposures I had anticipated (around 930) despite heavy use of the continuous shooting mode. As much as everyone else was overjoyed to have bright sunshine and clear skies I was not, but I persevered, so there are some harsh shadows unfortunately. Many, many hours of messing about in Lightroom followed as I tried to narrow down the pictures, and tweak them to a standard I was happy with.

Much to my relief, the bridge and groom are really pleased with the final photos (they got around 150 different images of through the day), as are others who have seen them. So, success? I'd like to think so. Yes I made a few errors, and there are plenty of things I could have done better, but I learnt so much in the progress, I feel like my photography has moved on leaps and bounds, even if it may not show. The total bill for this misadventure approached four figures, but I now have lots of shiny new kit and a 70-200 is firmly on the 'save-up-for' list.

Here's a link to 20 of my favourite images from the day: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123597004@N08/sets/7...

It remains just to say a huge thanks to those who gave support and advice, and as for those of you who said don't do it, well

[Simpo Two]

You've got some nice ones and a few misses as well (burnt highlights, bloke balancing a hangng basket on his shoulder), but if that's your first wedding, which I presume you did for free, then it's fortunate I'm able to put my feet up at the end of the year. Take over buddy!

[revrange]

some good shots there, well done for having a go! A lot of risk doing that, with little reward!

[DibblyDobbler]

RenesisEvo said:

those of you who said don't do it, well

Happy to have been proved wrong - good effort

[BlimeyCharlie]

Why don't the bride 'n' groom have a budget for photography?

I presume there will be a budget for the following though;
Wedding dress
Flowers
Church/Reg Office
Food
Venue
Car
Disco
Fake Tan

I'd like a holiday, but don't have a budget for one.
So I'll nip into Thomson's and see if they can sort something out for me...as it will be a good experience for the person working there, of course. And the airline, hotel etc.

Wake up!

[Simpo Two]

BlimeyCharlie said:

Why don't the bride 'n' groom have a budget for photography?

I presume there will be a budget for the following though;
Wedding dress
Flowers
Church/Reg Office
Food
Venue
Car
Disco
Fake Tan

It's a very good question. In truth wedding couples will get whatever aspect of the day they need for free or little if they can - the most obvious example is a friend with a camera, close second is probably an aunt making the cake, and if they had a friend who ran a flower shop or mobile disco then no doubt they'd be approached as well - the contribution being classed as a wedding present. So whilst it may peeve those in the industry, it's really just human nature to save a few quid if possible. And whilst the friend with a camera may not be as good as a pro, the money they save is a price worth paying - err if you see what I mean!