The camera can capture some fantastic moments IV

[Strangely Brown]

I'm confused.

If Stickyfinger objects to the Michael Wittmann grave photo so much, why did he go to the trouble of posting it here?

[yellowjack]

Hugo a Gogo said:

Stickyfinger said:

SS Officer..., he and his clique deserves no memory other that what he and his clique did to the world.
SS Divisions in the East.....
SS Divisions in Italy......
SS Divisions in France.....would you like a long list of what "the divisions" did in those countries ?

You did not get to his level without being a committed Nazi party member...so to publicly remember him like that is not good, hero worship (as he is) is twisted and revisionist. Those are not family tributes btw, they are from fans.

I have zero problem remembering the fallen from whatever side, but not the culpable. Fan worship of them is distasteful in the extreme.

Edited by Stickyfinger on Tuesday 8th September 12:48

I read that Michael Wittmann was never in the NSDAP at all, never mind being 'committed'

According to historians Wittmann was variously a heroic and inspirational tank commander, leading from the front and pressing home attacks wherever he had the opportunity, or he was a liability, who's poor judgement and 'gung-ho' attitude contributed to the failure of a number of operations in which he was involved.

He rose from infantry Private to a rank roughly equivalent to Captain, and his role in 1944 was somewhere between Troop Leader and Company Commander. So I'm not sure I get the "his level" comment. Sure, he was a minor celebrity in Germany for his exploits against the Russians, and a high number of combat 'kills', but any hero-worship at that time would also have been fueled by the German propaganda machine, desperate as it was to paper over the cracks and keep up morale at home while the combined might of the RAF and the USAAF bombed 'The Fatherland' night and day. But he doesn't appear to have been a 'political' officer, nor was he particularly high-ranking in either the Army, or the Nazi party.

His war record is a continuous and pretty comprehensive list of 'Field Army' actions, and whilst those operations cannot have been entirely atrocity free, it's unlikely that Michael Wittmann would have had a great deal of spare time to participate in barbaric acts of cruelty. I've served on tanks and other armoured vehicles, relatively reliable modern ones. Maintaining them, and 'fighting' them is a full-time occupation. The Tiger wasn't the brightly shining gem that it's often made out to be. Slow, cumbersome, and significantly underpowered due to weight increases throughout the design phase with no corresponding increase in engine power, it was also a complex beast to work on. Swapping an inboard roadwheel could involve removing the overlapping wheels (all EIGHT of them) in the the other rows of wheels, and might take half a day. On a Chieftain I reckon I could swap a pair in about 30 minutes. It took his troop 5 days to move into position about a hundred miles away when ordered into action in Normandy. How much 'spare' time to participate in The Final Solution do you think he had, whilst trundling around wondering whether he'd be attacked by 2nd TAF Typhoons on the open road, and desperately hoping that there'd be petrol waiting for him at his next planned halt?

Anyways. I didn't come here for an argument. We have conflicting opinions, so lets leave it at that. This story from July this year... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3179146/Gr... ...says the grave marker has been stolen, but I'll leave you with this comment from the mayor of the French town where Wittmann was laid to rest...

Bernard Lenice mayor of La Cambe said:

'The tombstone will be replaced. Even if it was a German officer, we must respect the dead.'

There are British and Allied war graves all over the world. Many are located in nations currently 'hostile' to our nation. Disrespecting the fallen, of whatever nation, is a slippery slope, as I'd hope to see those Commonwealth War Graves respected in perpetuity, even by those who wish to wage war upon us now and in the future. Let them ALL rest in peace.

[Blib]

Please, everyone. A request.

This thread is solely a photo thread. Comments on this thread should be restricted to those that are inane, irreverent and shallow. Our regular posters are experts at such.

Many new threads have been generated by this one. If you wish to discuss the rights and wrongs of various Allied and Axis units please, please open a thread elsewhere and post to your hearts' content.

Thanking you.

[LordGrover]

[leglessAlex]

Blib said:

This thread is solely a photo thread. Comments on this thread should be restricted to those that are inane, irreverent and shallow. Our regular posters are experts at such.

Excellent advice.

as for the picture Blib, and the one before it, heights? No no no no nonononononono

[/sweaty palms]

[Allanv]

Blib said:

Please, everyone. A request.

This thread is solely a photo thread. Comments on this thread should be restricted to those that are inane, irreverent and shallow. Our regular posters are experts at such.

Many new threads have been generated by this one. If you wish to discuss the rights and wrongs of various Allied and Axis units please, please open a thread elsewhere and post to your hearts' content.

Thanking you.

Looks like something we did last week and the year before



But we did something better this year.



Hope they are both allowed, but please delete if needed.

[mickk]

Holiday snaps are encouraged...


I think.

[Blib]

No holiday snaps.

[mickk]

I was wrong.

[Blib]

Not for the first time. Nor, no doubt, the last.

[dudleybloke]

[Stickyfinger]

[Allanv]

Blib said:

No holiday snaps.

Bugger i am banned !!!!!!

[LordGrover]

Stickyfinger said:

That'll never take off unless the conveyor belt goes faster.

[dudleybloke]

[DibblyDobbler]

dudleybloke said:

That brings back happy memories. Mrs Dibbly Mk1 did so love to swim

[NDA]

DibblyDobbler said:

That brings back happy memories. Mrs Dibbly Mk1 did so love to swim

[dudleybloke]

[Blib]

[irocfan]