Getting started with ND and ND grad filters...

[Disastrous]

Firstly, I know there have been many threads on the subject, and I have done a lot of reading but still have some questions of my own I'm hoping the collective wisdom on here can help with...

I'd like to get a bit more creative with my photography and living on the West Coast of Scotland, find myself taking more pictures of seascapes/sunsets/mountains than anything else. And I'd like to try a few of those silky water type pictures too.

I also live in the city and have been experimenting a lot with night shots with long exposure times, pull up to my bumper baby style car headlights and so on.

Additionally, I've been loving my new EOS M to bits, and in all honesty, given the size of it, I can get see it getting chucked in a rucksack far more often than a big camera, meaning more opportunity for use. But I'd like to be able to get some filters I can use on both the EOS M lenses and the bigger EF lenses I have, so I have all options covered.

So I'm trying to work out what I need and I have a couple of questions:

1). To my mind it sounds like I need both ND and Grads (the former for the silky water/headlights, the latter for landscapes) - is that right?

2). Assuming yes, would you ever combine both? For example, an ND to give a long exposure and an ND grad to control the sky?

3). Can anyone recommend a starter kit? I'm thinking I need a holder that will take an adapter so I can use it on the dinky M series lenses as well as the bigger ones?

4). Money IS an object (at least whilst I'm learning). I'd like to sort of dip my toe in and experiment cheaply, find out what I like and then spend more on something more focussed. Is there a good 'bag o filters' that gives a broad mix of types and stops, will adapt to all my lenses and let me practice?

Thanks in advance. - that turned out much longer than planned!

[DavidY]

Yes you can combine them

Most importantly, these type of photos are not handheld, typically they are long exposures anywhere between 3 seconds and 30 seconds, sometimes longer, so you need a tripod, and probably some form of remote release.

Mark Mullen of PH, wrote a useful piece here http://www.markmullenphotography.co.uk/blog/2013/3...

Filters can be a costly business, and they also can be a bit cumbersome to use. Top amateurs and professionals on the whole use the Lee Filter system but this is not cheap (especially the polariser!) but you will get most of your money back if you decide to sell.

I tend to use a Fuji CSC system are like to keep things compact, so my ND's and my Polariser are all screw in, and I even have a screw in ND grad, though this is limited in positioning compared with systems like the Lee, but it does rotate like a polariser.

Hope that helps

[The_Jackal]

This should give you a taster and decide if you want more expensive filters later on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Graduated-ND-Filter...
Bargain for £13

[Disastrous]

The_Jackal said:

This should give you a taster and decide if you want more expensive filters later on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Graduated-ND-Filter...
Bargain for £13

@The_Jackal: Surely not! That looks astonishing value!

Am I reading that correctly, that the holder will come with adaptor rings to fit all those lens diameters? Amazing if so! Ordering at once

@DavidY: Mark Mullen's blog was funnily enough one of the first places I started - very useful reading. I should have said, I have tripod etc etc. I've got a good manfrotto for the work camera (I ought to have explained I do video production but stills is relatively new to me. Plus the DoP just tells me what he wants to hire filter wise and I let him get on with it!) and the medium gorilla pod which when combined with the 2 sec timer on huge EOS M, is perfect!

[MysteryLemon]

Disastrous said:

@The_Jackal: Surely not! That looks astonishing value!

Am I reading that correctly, that the holder will come with adaptor rings to fit all those lens diameters? Amazing if so! Ordering at once

Agreed. No doubt the quality will be a bit st but for having a play with and possibly looking into upgrading the filter elements later, that's superb value! I just bought it

[Disastrous]

As a supplemental question, assuming I'm shooting RAW, what would happen if I exposed for the sky (or brightest highlights) and then brought the underexposed areas up in processing?

How feasible is that, assuming I could be arsed (I can't) and would it get you the visually 'same' result, or a I missing the theory somewhere?

[RobDickinson]

On Nikon and Sony it's more possible than canon.

You can always take 2 it more exposure and blend. Many top landscapers are shooting multiple frames now.

Imo filters are worth spending on anyhow, a poor set of them can ruin more pictures than they help.

Buy Lee or hitech, saves money in the end.

[steveatesh]

I chose the hitech kit because I thought the Lee system was too expensive for my own hobby needs and the reviews were good. I have not been disappointed, got the 85mm aluminum holder which is well machined and takes up to three stacked filters. The 10 stop seals against the holder to prevent light getting in, and it can be stacked with a grad filter too if required.

Nice kit and affordable to go with it, plus can be expanded as and when I need to.

[The Moose]

Just checked my e-mail and apparently last night I ordered the new Little Stopper to be delivered here tomorrow.

Oops!!

[S13_Alan]

The_Jackal said:

This should give you a taster and decide if you want more expensive filters later on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Graduated-ND-Filter...
Bargain for £13

Cheers!

Just ordered some as I'd been toying with the idea of getting some for a while but not sure about it. This lets me mess about and work out what I need, and whether I'd use them enough to be worth buying good ones.

[MysteryLemon]

The_Jackal said:

This should give you a taster and decide if you want more expensive filters later on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Graduated-ND-Filter...
Bargain for £13

Just an update on this, as said earlier, I bought this set and it just arrived this morning.



^ IIRC that's the 4 stop grad. Just pointed my phone at it and took a pic so excuse the quality.

For £13 I have nothing to complain about at all. The lens adapter rings are metal and the filter mount is plastic. Quality is pretty good actually. The filters themselves are plastic rather than glass but quality seems very good. With my eyes I think I can see a slight blue tint but my phone hasn't picked it up and I've yet to try it on the DSLR. Still, it's very minor and will be easily correctable if it shows up on images.

The filter carry case is worth the £13 alone imo. Defo a bargain, especially for beginners or someone looking into buying filters. This will allow me to play around and if I find I use them a lot, I can replace the ones I use most with better quality filters in the future.

I'll see if I can get out tonight with the set and have a play and report back with some proper pictures

[Disastrous]

Mine was apparently dispatched on the 14th but hasn't arrived yet. Hoping it gets here before the weekend as I'm off to the Highlands and weather permitting should be able to give them a decent test...

Glad to hear they're worth the money. Cokin filters seem quite well regarded so good to know it will all fit should I upgrade.

[MysteryLemon]

I ordered mine on the 13th and they just arrived yesterday (collected them from post office this morning) so hopefully you'll get today

Also just to ask, the filter mount allows you to stack 3 filters in a row. Would it be as simple as stacking the 4,3 and 2 stop filters to effectively make a 9 stop filter? Or does the light reduction with stacking filters not work like that?

Edited by MysteryLemon on Thursday 21st August 09:58

[Disastrous]

MysteryLemon said:

I ordered mine on the 13th and they just arrived yesterday (collected them from post office this morning) so hopefully you'll get today

Also just to ask, the filter mount allows you to stack 3 filters in a row. Would it be as simple as stacking the 4,3 and 2 stop filters to effectively make a 9 stop filter? Or does the light reduction with stacking filters not work like that?

Edited by MysteryLemon on Thursday 21st August 09:58

My understanding is that yes, it should be exactly as simple as that! Not sure if cheaper filters stacked might introduce any wrongness but in theory it should be fine.

[MysteryLemon]

Disastrous said:

My understanding is that yes, it should be exactly as simple as that! Not sure if cheaper filters stacked might introduce any wrongness but in theory it should be fine.

Yeah I imagine stacking 3/4 pieces of plastic infront of the lens isn't going to give optically fantastic results, but still, its something fun to play with before buying a proper single 10 stop etc.

[RobDickinson]

Even lee grads are resin/plastic.

If they are neutralish with a slight blue cast thats not too bad. Stack more exaggerates the colour cast, as does longer exposures.

[g3org3y]

Love a bit of ND grad. Can be a lifesaver when shooting with bright skies. Have a Cokin set for my Sigma 10-20.

Also good to keep skies under control for a bit of waterfall action. (Hand held btw )


Pseudo-HDR though.

[MysteryLemon]

There we are. A couple of pics with the 4 stop grad on my D7000. Colour is straight out of the camera.

Clearly a bit of a bluey purple tint in the grey area. The grey clouds don't help much and I'm sure it will actually be quite pleasing with a blue sky or sunset. Very please though regardless. Think I overdid it with the 4stop in the first pic. 2 or 3 stop would have given it a more natural look. I did actually stack the 3 and 4 stop grads together for another shot and the tint is far more noticeable, plus looks a bit daft

[Disastrous]

Not bad!

Mine arrived today but I only had five minutes to open the package...honestly can't tell a couple of the grads apart, oddly. Need to figure them out tomorrow - wish they were labelled!

[garybezz]

The_Jackal said:

This should give you a taster and decide if you want more expensive filters later on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Graduated-ND-Filter...
Bargain for £13

Thanks for this. Another set ordered here and very pleased with them.
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