Printing issues
Discussion
Could someone 'enlighten' me on how to get what I see on my screen out of my printer? The colours are fine, but the exposure miles off AND not consistent! What looks great on the screen is so dark out of the printer that sometimes I'm increasing the exposure in PS by a whole stop just to print the image somewhere near to what it should be.
Now I appreciate that a screen is lit, but is there a magic formula for getting the print exposure correct? It seems to me I either have ridiculous over exposed images on the screen or prints that are too dark! HELP!!!
Now I appreciate that a screen is lit, but is there a magic formula for getting the print exposure correct? It seems to me I either have ridiculous over exposed images on the screen or prints that are too dark! HELP!!!
eltawater said:
Have you also considered pairing the HP printer with HP photo paper?
I've had some terrible results in the past when mixing printer/paper brands.
No, I've not tried that. I assumed because it is more of an exposure issue rather than colour, the paper wasn't the problem?I've had some terrible results in the past when mixing printer/paper brands.
bernhund said:
Could someone 'enlighten' me on how to get what I see on my screen out of my printer? The colours are fine, but the exposure miles off AND not consistent! What looks great on the screen is so dark out of the printer that sometimes I'm increasing the exposure in PS by a whole stop just to print the image somewhere near to what it should be.
Now I appreciate that a screen is lit, but is there a magic formula for getting the print exposure correct? It seems to me I either have ridiculous over exposed images on the screen or prints that are too dark! HELP!!!
My first thought is that your screen is too bright. You must calibrate your monitor first or you'll be chasing your tail.Now I appreciate that a screen is lit, but is there a magic formula for getting the print exposure correct? It seems to me I either have ridiculous over exposed images on the screen or prints that are too dark! HELP!!!
When I tried some spare HP and Kodak paper through an Epson printer, I had severe problems with ink blotching/bleeding, leading to an oversaturated, blurry mess as the dark colours bled into the surrounding lighter colours. Switched back to Epson paper and the photos printed fine.
You *may* have a combination of issues with an incorrectly calibrated monitor coupled with paper issues. Both are fairly quick and cheap to test
You *may* have a combination of issues with an incorrectly calibrated monitor coupled with paper issues. Both are fairly quick and cheap to test
bernhund said:
Thank you chaps. How do I calibrate my monitor?
Could try one of the X-Rite products. I think most are available through Amazon.You probably need to think ahead on how anal you'll be about this. As others have said, the marriage of printer, paper, ink & monitor can be a real tricky business. You'll need to work out how often you want to run checks & calibration for both monitor & printer.
Some printers will need re-testing after you change an ink cartridge. If you follow that regime, you may then need to re-do the monitor. You can get into a cycle where you spend more time calibrating than actually producing.
Generic calibrations may give peace of mind and get close to a screen / printer synergy but I doubt you'll ever get to within 10%.
We gave up calibrating our monitors ages ago and trust the factory settings. We are fortunate though to have an Epson proofer with built in spectro and GMG colour management, so each proof is scanned & checked as 'pass for press'.
The monitor cal' issues we had were that the calibration software wanted to set the screen brightness so high, the guys were getting eye strain so we opted for a best match in colour temperature and let them set the brightness to suit.
A workaround can be proofing your RAW image once converted as a basis and then cross checking your corrections against a new proof.
What you need to consider is that what you see on screen is invariably RGB and obviously backlit. Your proof will be a CMYK paper image. Darker and the colour gamut has gone from 255 steps to 100.
You need to consider your ambient light as well. No point in trying to work on dark subjects in a bright room. This will change how you view the monitor as well.
It's a minefield. The only solid non variables you should start with are your colour space settings. No doubt some here would prefer sRGB but here, we use Adobe 98 RGB and only convert to Fogra 39L CMYK. This gets us approval from the GMG software.
Good luck with it though.
The other issue is that you usually need to apply the same colour profile to both the printer and the monitor if not then no amount of calibration is going to help. Basically if the monitor and printer are running off different colour profiles then effectively not only are they not singing off the same hymn sheet one is in a mosque and the other in a synagogue.
So under the device properties select color management and select use my settings then apply the ICC sRGB Color space profile to both monotor and printer, this is specially designed to transfer colour between monitors and printers. Also you can apply this colour space to PS when editing pictures too.
Finally if you can use a PS (Postscript) as opposed to a PCL (Printer Control Language) printer driver then they tend to give a far more accurate colour transfer.
Bear in mind that the transfer from RGB to CMYK involves a load of compromises as CMYK can only cover about 65% of the colours that are generated and viewable in the RGB colour space so therefore the RIP in the printer tends to make educated guesses on an appropriate colour when a monitor colour (RGB) is outside the CMYK envelope.
So under the device properties select color management and select use my settings then apply the ICC sRGB Color space profile to both monotor and printer, this is specially designed to transfer colour between monitors and printers. Also you can apply this colour space to PS when editing pictures too.
Finally if you can use a PS (Postscript) as opposed to a PCL (Printer Control Language) printer driver then they tend to give a far more accurate colour transfer.
Bear in mind that the transfer from RGB to CMYK involves a load of compromises as CMYK can only cover about 65% of the colours that are generated and viewable in the RGB colour space so therefore the RIP in the printer tends to make educated guesses on an appropriate colour when a monitor colour (RGB) is outside the CMYK envelope.
Edited by tomash on Monday 22 September 14:58
Pixel Pusher said:
bernhund said:
Thank you chaps. How do I calibrate my monitor?
Could try one of the X-Rite products. I think most are available through Amazon.You probably need to think ahead on how anal you'll be about this. As others have said, the marriage of printer, paper, ink & monitor can be a real tricky business. You'll need to work out how often you want to run checks & calibration for both monitor & printer.
Some printers will need re-testing after you change an ink cartridge. If you follow that regime, you may then need to re-do the monitor. You can get into a cycle where you spend more time calibrating than actually producing.
Generic calibrations may give peace of mind and get close to a screen / printer synergy but I doubt you'll ever get to within 10%.
We gave up calibrating our monitors ages ago and trust the factory settings. We are fortunate though to have an Epson proofer with built in spectro and GMG colour management, so each proof is scanned & checked as 'pass for press'.
The monitor cal' issues we had were that the calibration software wanted to set the screen brightness so high, the guys were getting eye strain so we opted for a best match in colour temperature and let them set the brightness to suit.
A workaround can be proofing your RAW image once converted as a basis and then cross checking your corrections against a new proof.
What you need to consider is that what you see on screen is invariably RGB and obviously backlit. Your proof will be a CMYK paper image. Darker and the colour gamut has gone from 255 steps to 100.
You need to consider your ambient light as well. No point in trying to work on dark subjects in a bright room. This will change how you view the monitor as well.
It's a minefield. The only solid non variables you should start with are your colour space settings. No doubt some here would prefer sRGB but here, we use Adobe 98 RGB and only convert to Fogra 39L CMYK. This gets us approval from the GMG software.
Good luck with it though.
I don't even use the genuine ink! I have to say though, I can't tell the difference in results from the real mccoy, but then if everything was calibrated correctly, perhaps it would be startlingly obvious?Part of the problem is that I don't need to print often, but when I do, it would be nice to not have to do half a dozen prints to try to get one decent one!
Would a new printer make all the difference? Mine could be 5 years plus now. Obviously calibrating still required, but has the tech moved on enough for the printers to recognise the requirements?
GetCarter said:
bernhund said:
Just looked at the X-Rite i1 display pro. Is this the type of product?
Why don't you do what most of us did a while back, and give up printing at home and get stuff printed on line. Much cheaper.ETA - monitor calibrating still worth doing!
bernhund said:
I had thought about this Steve and the question that kept popping up in my head was: How would the printers know whether what I had sent them was correct? After I play about with the RAW file on PS, I feel I've got a half decent result for a mere mortal, but could the printer still receive and under/over exposed file? Or do the printers take control at that stage?
I doubt the printer would flag an aesthetic item. If they queried every submission, they'd never get any work done.They may however comment on one of your points; Over exposure, (particularly, lack of minimum dot). Maybe file format, the resolution (if it was disproportionate to the print size requested) or colour space.
If the above criteria was OK, I'm sure they'd assume you were happy with it and crack on.
GetCarter said:
Looks great.
As for on line printers, you can always print a 6x4 for pennies and then print big. If they screw up, you have a reference!
I find they are really good on the whole, and will print again free of charge if you have a serious problem.
That's nice to know Steve, thank you. Does that mean it's not too bright on your screen?As for on line printers, you can always print a 6x4 for pennies and then print big. If they screw up, you have a reference!
I find they are really good on the whole, and will print again free of charge if you have a serious problem.
Can you or anyone recommend an online printers? I'm in Kent but I don't suppose it matters does it?
bernhund said:
GetCarter said:
Looks great.
As for on line printers, you can always print a 6x4 for pennies and then print big. If they screw up, you have a reference!
I find they are really good on the whole, and will print again free of charge if you have a serious problem.
That's nice to know Steve, thank you. Does that mean it's not too bright on your screen?As for on line printers, you can always print a 6x4 for pennies and then print big. If they screw up, you have a reference!
I find they are really good on the whole, and will print again free of charge if you have a serious problem.
Can you or anyone recommend an online printers? I'm in Kent but I don't suppose it matters does it?
..and not too bright on my screen.
GetCarter said:
bernhund said:
GetCarter said:
Looks great.
As for on line printers, you can always print a 6x4 for pennies and then print big. If they screw up, you have a reference!
I find they are really good on the whole, and will print again free of charge if you have a serious problem.
That's nice to know Steve, thank you. Does that mean it's not too bright on your screen?As for on line printers, you can always print a 6x4 for pennies and then print big. If they screw up, you have a reference!
I find they are really good on the whole, and will print again free of charge if you have a serious problem.
Can you or anyone recommend an online printers? I'm in Kent but I don't suppose it matters does it?
..and not too bright on my screen.
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