Prime Lens Indoors (Wedding)
Discussion
Morning all,
I am off to a wedding tomorrow and keen to take my recently purchased 35mm prime. I dont want to be lugging around a lot of lenses and keen to try it out.
Any tips on how is best to get some nice portrait shots in darkish rooms?
I have read a few guides online but in worried about having too low an f stop (1.8) in case of too narrow a focus band, or too high an ISO, for the noise.
I am using a d40x which I appreciate is not the latest of cameras but it is more than capable than I am!
Any advice/examples would be greatly appreciated
I am off to a wedding tomorrow and keen to take my recently purchased 35mm prime. I dont want to be lugging around a lot of lenses and keen to try it out.
Any tips on how is best to get some nice portrait shots in darkish rooms?
I have read a few guides online but in worried about having too low an f stop (1.8) in case of too narrow a focus band, or too high an ISO, for the noise.
I am using a d40x which I appreciate is not the latest of cameras but it is more than capable than I am!
Any advice/examples would be greatly appreciated
It might be worth adding, I so far have found results with the lens a bit hit or miss. Either brilliantly sharp or totally out of focus.
I realise this is a common problem with prime in low light as there are so many similar posts online, but also realise it is the photographer at fault, not the lens!
I realise this is a common problem with prime in low light as there are so many similar posts online, but also realise it is the photographer at fault, not the lens!
My experience at a wedding earlier this year was interesting.
I got the best sensor I could find (secondhand body) carefully AF fine tuned my 85mm f/1.4 and cranked ISO right up. Forget about light fall off and IQ at edge of frame and just get stuck in looking for expressions/moods.
Instead of putting my 50mm f1.4 on my second body, I ended up lending it to another (professional) photographer who was like a pig in s
t about going simple and leaving his 28-300 alone. His aim/style was a particularly gritty style B&W conversion (ex-paparazzo) - again it just concentrates you into expression and mood.
I concentrated on arsing around with WB and smoothing out the low level of noise. At the end of the day, his style was "right" for reception and disco, mine for expressions at the ceremony and faces during speeches.
Style over substance, but you're capturing emotions not images! Don't worry about kit, noise, technical. Just focus on focus - AF if it suits, but manual is probably better.
Just my thoughts.
I got the best sensor I could find (secondhand body) carefully AF fine tuned my 85mm f/1.4 and cranked ISO right up. Forget about light fall off and IQ at edge of frame and just get stuck in looking for expressions/moods.
Instead of putting my 50mm f1.4 on my second body, I ended up lending it to another (professional) photographer who was like a pig in s
t about going simple and leaving his 28-300 alone. His aim/style was a particularly gritty style B&W conversion (ex-paparazzo) - again it just concentrates you into expression and mood.I concentrated on arsing around with WB and smoothing out the low level of noise. At the end of the day, his style was "right" for reception and disco, mine for expressions at the ceremony and faces during speeches.
Style over substance, but you're capturing emotions not images! Don't worry about kit, noise, technical. Just focus on focus - AF if it suits, but manual is probably better.
Just my thoughts.
My personal preference for Portrait shots is a bit cheesy. I like the eyes in focus, and the background pure bokeh lushness.
So set the camera to AF-C. Single point focus. Place the focus dot over the eye in viewfinder. The next trick is to exploit the low depth of field you get at a close focus distance, so get close, fill their head with the frame in the viewfinder. Make sure the background is further than 2 meters away, preferably with some point light sources, and voila, one classic cheesy portrait, this is not mine, but you get the idea = https://www.flickr.com/photos/clskelton/1033726776...
Ideally, you want the shutter at 120/sec minimum, for results every time. You can go slower, but it will drop your keeper rate as eye movement and fleeting expressions will blur the photo, and you want the aperture almost all the way open - f2 to f2.8. If you have it wide open at f1.8 its not quite as sharp, there is a bit more CA and you often don't get both eyes in focus. I personally think losing 1/3 stop is worth the tradeoff.
I am not sure if the D40 allows this, but one of the best ways to shoot in low light is to be in manual mode, set your aperture f2.0 and shutter speed 1/200, and let the camera pick the ISO. The camera will drop shutter speed if it hits the ISO Maximum, you just have to keep and eye on it and if it goes below 1/30 accept you need more light.
It is not perfect, the Pro's use a long lens and a full frame body either a 135 f2 prime or a 70-200 f2.8, this means you don't have to worry about background as much as the depth of field is smaller, even when you are not at minimum focus distance, so you don't have to be in people's faces, which means you can capture more natural and unposed shots, and you can use ISO 3200 and 6400 without issues so you don't have to worry about shutter speed constantly unless its really dark.
Personally, if I shoot weddings, my experience is that the shot opportunities comes along very fleetingly. It you have the light, it is often best to be at f5.6 or f8, and max usable iso, and a high shutter speed. People don't generally notice the grain of high ISO, but they do notice if you missed focus or the shot is blurry. If you have the chance to shoot the same subject over and over, drop the iso, get a wide aperture and go for an arty shot, but don't do it at a key moment that is not to be repeated.
And generally speaking, a flash is mandatory, either as a fill in outdoor sunlight, or something to overpower the horrible yellow energy saver bulbs most venues use that are going to screw your white balance to hell, or to actually get the shot on a pitch black dancefloor.
So set the camera to AF-C. Single point focus. Place the focus dot over the eye in viewfinder. The next trick is to exploit the low depth of field you get at a close focus distance, so get close, fill their head with the frame in the viewfinder. Make sure the background is further than 2 meters away, preferably with some point light sources, and voila, one classic cheesy portrait, this is not mine, but you get the idea = https://www.flickr.com/photos/clskelton/1033726776...
Ideally, you want the shutter at 120/sec minimum, for results every time. You can go slower, but it will drop your keeper rate as eye movement and fleeting expressions will blur the photo, and you want the aperture almost all the way open - f2 to f2.8. If you have it wide open at f1.8 its not quite as sharp, there is a bit more CA and you often don't get both eyes in focus. I personally think losing 1/3 stop is worth the tradeoff.
I am not sure if the D40 allows this, but one of the best ways to shoot in low light is to be in manual mode, set your aperture f2.0 and shutter speed 1/200, and let the camera pick the ISO. The camera will drop shutter speed if it hits the ISO Maximum, you just have to keep and eye on it and if it goes below 1/30 accept you need more light.
It is not perfect, the Pro's use a long lens and a full frame body either a 135 f2 prime or a 70-200 f2.8, this means you don't have to worry about background as much as the depth of field is smaller, even when you are not at minimum focus distance, so you don't have to be in people's faces, which means you can capture more natural and unposed shots, and you can use ISO 3200 and 6400 without issues so you don't have to worry about shutter speed constantly unless its really dark.
Personally, if I shoot weddings, my experience is that the shot opportunities comes along very fleetingly. It you have the light, it is often best to be at f5.6 or f8, and max usable iso, and a high shutter speed. People don't generally notice the grain of high ISO, but they do notice if you missed focus or the shot is blurry. If you have the chance to shoot the same subject over and over, drop the iso, get a wide aperture and go for an arty shot, but don't do it at a key moment that is not to be repeated.
And generally speaking, a flash is mandatory, either as a fill in outdoor sunlight, or something to overpower the horrible yellow energy saver bulbs most venues use that are going to screw your white balance to hell, or to actually get the shot on a pitch black dancefloor.
I'd suggest you work out how high you're happy to go with the ISO on your camera, but bear in mind a noisey but sharp image is going to be more useable than a blurred one. Then decide how wide open you're happy to use that lens, ie does it get a little soft at max aperture or is it sharp all the way?
If you have a set of max limits for the main settings then you shouldn't need to worry about those and can concentrate on composition and timing of the photos.
Good luck and if you're there as a guest make sure you enjoy yourself and don't spend too long taking pics
If you have a set of max limits for the main settings then you shouldn't need to worry about those and can concentrate on composition and timing of the photos.
Good luck and if you're there as a guest make sure you enjoy yourself and don't spend too long taking pics
Mermaid said:
Dx, so longer reach
I know, but I still wouldn't try to fill the frame with someone's head, as suggested. The closest I go (in terms of field of view and also physically) is head and shoulders at 55mm. People don't react well if you get too close, and the perspective gets less flattering. That's why a portait lens is longer than a standard lens.It is a bit odd, this linking of 35mm (even on DX) and portraits - not the first thread to do this.
Really, for "getting in close", nobody means being lens-nose close although it can be done.
For DX: at a pinch 50mm, but 85mm or 105mm
For FX: 85mm, 105mm, 135mm
Let the subject breathe - both physically and artistically, be relatively unobtrusive to capture natural reactions, float (like a butterfly) around the groups/tables and sting like a bee....... Er
got carried away there, but YKWIM...
Really, for "getting in close", nobody means being lens-nose close although it can be done.
For DX: at a pinch 50mm, but 85mm or 105mm
For FX: 85mm, 105mm, 135mm
Let the subject breathe - both physically and artistically, be relatively unobtrusive to capture natural reactions, float (like a butterfly) around the groups/tables and sting like a bee....... Er
got carried away there, but YKWIM...Simpo Two said:
Mermaid said:
Dx, so longer reach
I know, but I still wouldn't try to fill the frame with someone's head, as suggested. The closest I go (in terms of field of view and also physically) is head and shoulders at 55mm. People don't react well if you get too close, and the perspective gets less flattering. That's why a portait lens is longer than a standard lens.Mermaid said:
Simpo Two said:
Mermaid said:
Dx, so longer reach
I know, but I still wouldn't try to fill the frame with someone's head, as suggested. The closest I go (in terms of field of view and also physically) is head and shoulders at 55mm. People don't react well if you get too close, and the perspective gets less flattering. That's why a portait lens is longer than a standard lens.Lol ^^
Now serious bit, what settings do you usually use OP (ie manual, auto etc) and have you also updated the software on your D40x since you purchased it?
2 reasons really, the software upgrade may fix some issues and you get the best (with practice) out of the camera in Manual.
The 40x isnt a bad camera but it may not be the best in low light, the 35mm can help being an f1.8 but it is all about getting a good balance between apature, shutter speed and iso. If you hace a flash gun it may be worth taking it as the built in flash normally isnt up to the job, and if you can get into the venue before hand to get some practice shots in? May help you also
Now serious bit, what settings do you usually use OP (ie manual, auto etc) and have you also updated the software on your D40x since you purchased it?
2 reasons really, the software upgrade may fix some issues and you get the best (with practice) out of the camera in Manual.
The 40x isnt a bad camera but it may not be the best in low light, the 35mm can help being an f1.8 but it is all about getting a good balance between apature, shutter speed and iso. If you hace a flash gun it may be worth taking it as the built in flash normally isnt up to the job, and if you can get into the venue before hand to get some practice shots in? May help you also
All, thanks a lot for the replies, much appreciated.
I'm still a beginner in relative terms, tend to mostly use auto but have tinkered with the other settings, mainly shutter speed for nighttime pictures.
I bought the 35mm for these type of pictures and due to all the rave reviews. I read 50mm would be too long on the d40x. As long as my pictures are sharp I'll be happy. I'm not expecting miracles overnight.
I have never updated the software, must admit I didn't realise it was an option? I'll go have a look .
I'm still a beginner in relative terms, tend to mostly use auto but have tinkered with the other settings, mainly shutter speed for nighttime pictures.
I bought the 35mm for these type of pictures and due to all the rave reviews. I read 50mm would be too long on the d40x. As long as my pictures are sharp I'll be happy. I'm not expecting miracles overnight.
I have never updated the software, must admit I didn't realise it was an option? I'll go have a look .
I have also tried manual focus many times but I find it quite difficult to see how well focused the subject is through the view finder. A friend has live view on his camera and usually his pics are extremely sharp.
I'll have a good play around and see how it goes. Any higher than 800 iso And the outcome is very grainy
I'll have a good play around and see how it goes. Any higher than 800 iso And the outcome is very grainy
I just had a look and there is only one update for the D40X, if you use the EN EL9a battery then its worth doing as it increases battery life over the EN EL9.
As for the manual setting, just meant setting your appature, shutter speed and ISO manually as auto goes OTT with the ISO, and dont worry too much if the picture is grainy, convert those pictures to black and white, makes for a nice effect
As for the manual setting, just meant setting your appature, shutter speed and ISO manually as auto goes OTT with the ISO, and dont worry too much if the picture is grainy, convert those pictures to black and white, makes for a nice effect
justin220 said:
... manual focus ... quite difficult to see ... through the view finder.
Sadly, this can be a problem with all modern models - the designers seem to relegate the usability for other factors assuming everyone will AF.Possibility number 1: do Canons have similar little focus "indicator" that Nikons have (I find that an essential using my manual lens)
Possibility number 2: although you probably can't change the focussing screen can you get replacement eyepiece (Nikon do something like the DK-17M) which provides an effective magnification of the viewfinder? (I pimp all my cameras with this and a DK-19 which I believe are essential!)
Last suggestion: Rental for the day? (After all you know how to use one Canon. You can probably use any model)
ETA: for some reason I thought OP had a Canon - Doh! Plus I didn't read that it was happening tomorrow either! Doh!
Edited by K12beano on Friday 17th April 18:15
justin220 said:
I'm still a beginner in relative terms, tend to mostly use auto but have tinkered with the other settings, mainly shutter speed for nighttime pictures.
I bought the 35mm for these type of pictures and due to all the rave reviews. I read 50mm would be too long on the d40x. As long as my pictures are sharp I'll be happy.
You may want them somewhere near the correct exposure too. You won't have time to perfect every shot so shoot RAW for this and also for white balance/skin tones.I bought the 35mm for these type of pictures and due to all the rave reviews. I read 50mm would be too long on the d40x. As long as my pictures are sharp I'll be happy.
As for 35mm, yes, it's fine for general photography - it's the DX equivalent of what we called a 'standard' (ie 50mm) lens. But if you want to do portraits, don't just do what the reviews say, put it on the camera and see how close you have to get the fill the screen. I think you'll find it's too close for a weddding situation. It will do general views and groups but not portraits IMHO. And don't even think about manual focus.
ETA: As Mermaid said you could put a 2x TC behind it and get a 70mm lens, though you'd lose aperture. Personally I'm a fan of zooms because I can frame exactly as I want to in a fraction of a second.
Edited by Simpo Two on Friday 17th April 16:01
You can use a 35mm for portraits, the pro's don't use it as there are better options, that mean you are not in peoples faces, and give a more flattering perspective. And I would never advocate buying as a portrait specific lens.
I am just explaining how to get the classic, cheesy bokeh portrait look with a Nikon 35 1.8 G
Some examples, all using the technique I outlined above.
https://flic.kr/p/qADCyK
https://flic.kr/p/9khyW3
https://flic.kr/p/gnxnwf
https://flic.kr/p/fgRFf4
I am just explaining how to get the classic, cheesy bokeh portrait look with a Nikon 35 1.8 G
Some examples, all using the technique I outlined above.
https://flic.kr/p/qADCyK
https://flic.kr/p/9khyW3
https://flic.kr/p/gnxnwf
https://flic.kr/p/fgRFf4
justin220 said:
Any tips on how is best to get some nice portrait shots in darkish rooms?
I have read a few guides online but in worried about having too low an f stop (1.8) in case of too narrow a focus band, or too high an ISO, for the noise.
I am using a d40x which I appreciate is not the latest of cameras but it is more than capable than I am!
Any advice/examples would be greatly appreciated
To answer the questions - the danger of having a fast lens in your armoury is that there's a temptation to go 'Woo - fast lens!', jam it wide open, and then wonder why all your pictures are out of focus. Because you're not used to working with such a shallow DOF.I have read a few guides online but in worried about having too low an f stop (1.8) in case of too narrow a focus band, or too high an ISO, for the noise.
I am using a d40x which I appreciate is not the latest of cameras but it is more than capable than I am!
Any advice/examples would be greatly appreciated
I find f3.5 a good working compromise between speed and acceptable DOF (ie aperture priority). I set ISO to 320 or 400 and let the flash do the rest - I almost always use fill flash which on my particular set up always gives me a shutter speed of 1/60th. But that's another story.
I suspect your D40 is going to get rather grainy at 800+ so steer clear unless you absolutely have to (eg gloomy church, aperture is 1.8, shutter speed is as low as you can hold it. Only then resort to ISO).
In short, set essential parameters before you start and let the camera do the rest. If you're keen on exposure, histogram and EV (exposure compensation) are your friends. At least, that's how I do it, others may vary.
Sadly you are not starting from a good place in terms of camera.
The lens is fine - there are plenty of pros who could use a 35mm very easily, no issues with that - and with the crop nature of the camera you have effectively the focal length roughly equivalent to normal eyesight, it will be fine, esp. for contextual / photo journalistic type shots...
The problem is the sensor quality of the camera, it is simply a bit old / poor for wedding photography. Whether in a church / reception, low light tends to be the norm and that sensor will not cope with it. if you can get hold of a flash then you can transform your abilities in the reception (flash in church not so ideal!)
most wedding pros now will deliberately shoot high iso - in the weddings / events I have done I have happily gone up to over 100,000 ISO in the right context - better to have a high ISO and a reasonable shutter speed, rather than out of focus images from a shutter speed that is too low...
to get the right image you need the right light level coming into the camera and in low light it is difficult to do that (even if shooting at 1.2 / 1.8 / 2.8) unless you can increase ISO... and the D40 is too old / poor - it also has the old style sensor before Nikon changed it, and it didn't cope with low light.
If you have any chance of borrowing a newer camera I would really recommend it / borrow a flash (read up on how to use it!) otherwise, still crank up the ISO - low quality from high iso is better than low quality from low shutter speed...
ref. flash - I mean separate flashgun - not the built in flash which is useless
The lens is fine - there are plenty of pros who could use a 35mm very easily, no issues with that - and with the crop nature of the camera you have effectively the focal length roughly equivalent to normal eyesight, it will be fine, esp. for contextual / photo journalistic type shots...
The problem is the sensor quality of the camera, it is simply a bit old / poor for wedding photography. Whether in a church / reception, low light tends to be the norm and that sensor will not cope with it. if you can get hold of a flash then you can transform your abilities in the reception (flash in church not so ideal!)
most wedding pros now will deliberately shoot high iso - in the weddings / events I have done I have happily gone up to over 100,000 ISO in the right context - better to have a high ISO and a reasonable shutter speed, rather than out of focus images from a shutter speed that is too low...
to get the right image you need the right light level coming into the camera and in low light it is difficult to do that (even if shooting at 1.2 / 1.8 / 2.8) unless you can increase ISO... and the D40 is too old / poor - it also has the old style sensor before Nikon changed it, and it didn't cope with low light.
If you have any chance of borrowing a newer camera I would really recommend it / borrow a flash (read up on how to use it!) otherwise, still crank up the ISO - low quality from high iso is better than low quality from low shutter speed...
ref. flash - I mean separate flashgun - not the built in flash which is useless
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff