Full frame worth it?
Discussion
I think she's finally decided a full frame might be a quite a lot of extra cash 
I see the crop sensored Canon 760D and Nikon D5500 have pretty much the same number of pixels as the full frame Nikon D750 she was initially interested in. That negates any digital zooming advantage of the FF but does the increased pixel density mean they're inherently noisier?
The 760D and D5500 are both around £750-£800ish with a 18-140ish stabilised lens, what else should we be considering in that kind of price range?
I see the crop sensored Canon 760D and Nikon D5500 have pretty much the same number of pixels as the full frame Nikon D750 she was initially interested in. That negates any digital zooming advantage of the FF but does the increased pixel density mean they're inherently noisier?
The 760D and D5500 are both around £750-£800ish with a 18-140ish stabilised lens, what else should we be considering in that kind of price range?
you never get everything all those new pixels promise
Image noise as a whole is what you should think about rather than pixel level.
An 8mp image vs a 24mp image (given similar levels of tech) the 24mp image will look far nosier at 100% because you have effectively magnified it a lot more. You will get more detail and a sharper result, and should be able to print larger, or crop more aggressively, but not to the extent the number of pixels make it seem.
More pixels are also a great way to show up any weakness in the image, poor technique, lens, focus etc when zoomed in become a lot more apparent.
If the image as a whole doesnt suffer I'll always take more pixels than less though, and typically as we move on adding pixels doesnt do anything bad other than increasing file size
Image noise as a whole is what you should think about rather than pixel level.
An 8mp image vs a 24mp image (given similar levels of tech) the 24mp image will look far nosier at 100% because you have effectively magnified it a lot more. You will get more detail and a sharper result, and should be able to print larger, or crop more aggressively, but not to the extent the number of pixels make it seem.
More pixels are also a great way to show up any weakness in the image, poor technique, lens, focus etc when zoomed in become a lot more apparent.
If the image as a whole doesnt suffer I'll always take more pixels than less though, and typically as we move on adding pixels doesnt do anything bad other than increasing file size
If you do go full-frame my Sony A7Rii has just gone on eBay. It didn't play nice enough with my Leica glass but to be honest it is the best camera I have owned.
FF (and beyond) is king for low light and shallow depth of field, but I still find my EM-5 (2x crop) and Zuiko glass more than up for everything else.
FF (and beyond) is king for low light and shallow depth of field, but I still find my EM-5 (2x crop) and Zuiko glass more than up for everything else.
I'm might be selling my Nikon D7200 (body only). If you're interested PM me. Most of the photos on my website were taken on that (or a lesser Nikon). It's a fantastic camera. I've never really felt the need to go FF to be honest, and after I sell this I'll be looking to get another crop sensor Nikon D500.
I've been considering the leap to FF for several months now and even posted a thread to ask a similar question a few months ago, so have a bit of a dilemma what with suggestions to go the whole hog and buy a Canon 5D3 which most users consider to be one of the best, or buy a crop sensor Canon 7D2 plus a FF Canon 6D for the same money.... decisions decisions!!!
rich888 said:
I've been considering the leap to FF for several months now and even posted a thread to ask a similar question a few months ago, so have a bit of a dilemma what with suggestions to go the whole hog and buy a Canon 5D3 which most users consider to be one of the best, or buy a crop sensor Canon 7D2 plus a FF Canon 6D for the same money.... decisions decisions!!!
7D2 + 6D would be my choice, then you get the best of both worlds. And have a backup camera.RobDickinson said:
Problem with the split camera idea is that you either have to take both cameras everywhere or compromise. Then you have focal length/lens issues.
I tried working with DX and FX Nikons at the same time and it was horrible. Might suit some but I couldn't get on with it. Went back to DX.I wouldn't class myself as a photographer, but I bought an SLR 2 years ago. Mine isn't full frame and I hardly ever take it out anymore due to the weight. Went to the US for a month in the Summer including LA/SanFran/Yosemite/New York and didn't take it out of my hotels due to the weight... A full frame would be even worse.
RobDickinson said:
A 6D is lighter than a 7d/7d mk2... but you typically end up with heavier lenses.
You can make a very lightweight FF kit though. A sony A7r + 21, 35 and 50 is a very tidy little kit
I have a Canon 1100d (probably the least well built canon ever so should be light at least) with a 18-55stm, 55-250stm and 50mm prime...You can make a very lightweight FF kit though. A sony A7r + 21, 35 and 50 is a very tidy little kit
I think I am soft/lazy! My OnePlus3 was enough for me this year!
Whilst on the subject of full frame cameras, which of the Canon zoom lenses would be the better buy in terms of cost/quality ratio, been looking at the EF 24-70 IS USM f4L lens costing approx £641, or the EF 24-105 f4L IS USM lens priced at approx £650. I appreciate that there are MK2 versions available which are probably better, but they are outside of my budget range.
I have several prime lenses that are probably better in terms of optics, but sometimes I just want to travel light with one lens that won't break the bank and will deal with most of the situations I need one for.
This also is kind of one more vote for buying the 5D3 rather than lugging round two cameras, incidentally I noticed at the price dipped to £2150 at Wex today, and several other retailers were doing similar deals. Judging by the historical prices displayed on the camerapricebuster.co.uk website these prices could well fall further in December, though knowing my luck will probably rise!
I have several prime lenses that are probably better in terms of optics, but sometimes I just want to travel light with one lens that won't break the bank and will deal with most of the situations I need one for.
This also is kind of one more vote for buying the 5D3 rather than lugging round two cameras, incidentally I noticed at the price dipped to £2150 at Wex today, and several other retailers were doing similar deals. Judging by the historical prices displayed on the camerapricebuster.co.uk website these prices could well fall further in December, though knowing my luck will probably rise!
rich888 said:
This also is kind of one more vote for buying the 5D3 rather than lugging round two cameras, incidentally I noticed at the price dipped to £2150 at Wex today, and several other retailers were doing similar deals. Judging by the historical prices displayed on the camerapricebuster.co.uk website these prices could well fall further in December, though knowing my luck will probably rise!
Looks like Jessops are doing it for £1999 now according to Camerapricebuster....or you could go to HDEW and get it for £1699 (which is where I got mine). Although it's effectively a grey import, they do have a physical shop and have a good reputation in terms of dealing with any warranty issues.
flight147z said:
I wouldn't class myself as a photographer, but I bought an SLR 2 years ago. Mine isn't full frame and I hardly ever take it out anymore due to the weight. Went to the US for a month in the Summer including LA/SanFran/Yosemite/New York and didn't take it out of my hotels due to the weight... A full frame would be even worse.
I'm not sure what the point of this post was. If you don't class yourself as a photographer, just carry the smallest camera or smartphone that gives you what you need. I'm quite happy to walk around all day with 5D3/battery grip/70-200 f2.8 but have an understanding wife and strong wrists 
Tony1963 said:
I'm not sure what the point of this post was. If you don't class yourself as a photographer, just carry the smallest camera or smartphone that gives you what you need. I'm quite happy to walk around all day with 5D3/battery grip/70-200 f2.8 but have an understanding wife and strong wrists
Definitely worth borrowing/carrying round a full frame for a bit I think to gauge if weight is an issue. Not sure if this had been considered.A 5d mk IV with even the 24-70 f/4 is over 1.5kg. A 1300d with the STM 18-55 is less than 600g. Obviously there will be a difference in performance, but at the expense of extra weight (And significant cost)
flight147z said:
Tony1963 said:
I'm not sure what the point of this post was. If you don't class yourself as a photographer, just carry the smallest camera or smartphone that gives you what you need. I'm quite happy to walk around all day with 5D3/battery grip/70-200 f2.8 but have an understanding wife and strong wrists
Definitely worth borrowing/carrying round a full frame for a bit I think to gauge if weight is an issue. Not sure if this had been considered.A 5d mk IV with even the 24-70 f/4 is over 1.5kg. A 1300d with the STM 18-55 is less than 600g. Obviously there will be a difference in performance, but at the expense of extra weight (And significant cost)
I'd prefer that in weight, bulk, and especially performance to a 1300d and kit zoom any day.
Two bodies works for me, as I am either shooting sports or landscapes, so take the cropped sensor for sports and the full frame for everything else.
rich888 said:
Whilst on the subject of full frame cameras, which of the Canon zoom lenses would be the better buy in terms of cost/quality ratio, been looking at the EF 24-70 IS USM f4L lens costing approx £641, or the EF 24-105 f4L IS USM lens priced at approx £650. I appreciate that there are MK2 versions available which are probably better, but they are outside of my budget range.
I have several prime lenses that are probably better in terms of optics, but sometimes I just want to travel light with one lens that won't break the bank and will deal with most of the situations I need one for.
I went through this decision, and even though I have a 70-200, so technically have the longer end covered, I went for the 24-105 as it is more versatile. It is the main lens on my 5D, and often the only lens I take with me, especially if I am travelling.I have several prime lenses that are probably better in terms of optics, but sometimes I just want to travel light with one lens that won't break the bank and will deal with most of the situations I need one for.
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