Auschwitz - sensitive material.
Discussion
Being allowed to photograph is a tricky one - on the one hand I can understand the need for respect, but on the other...it should be recorded - it will crumble over time.
That's a discussion for the current keepers of the camps though (Polish government?)
It's also somewhere I want to go - sounds morbid I know, but I think I should be exposed to such a stark reminder of what humanity is capable of.
That's a discussion for the current keepers of the camps though (Polish government?)
It's also somewhere I want to go - sounds morbid I know, but I think I should be exposed to such a stark reminder of what humanity is capable of.
Thanks very much for posting, I've never really seen any pictures before but yours with your account are truly thought provoking, I will now go there one day, and as someone said earlier this does need to be remembered, oh and I don't think it will crumble, surely no one will allow this place to crumble
Famous Graham said:
Being allowed to photograph is a tricky one - on the one hand I can understand the need for respect, but on the other...it should be recorded - it will crumble over time.
That's a discussion for the current keepers of the camps though (Polish government?)
It's also somewhere I want to go - sounds morbid I know, but I think I should be exposed to such a stark reminder of what humanity is capable of.
It's only the interior they request you don't photograph Graham. If you go to the official site there are some photos of the exhibits, and take it from me, they lose a lot of the impact as a photo!That's a discussion for the current keepers of the camps though (Polish government?)
It's also somewhere I want to go - sounds morbid I know, but I think I should be exposed to such a stark reminder of what humanity is capable of.
If you imagine a decent sized Edinburgh flat, take the living room and fill it floor to ceiling with shoes with only a one metre wide walkway down the middle, then you'll get the idea!
Before I went I thought I knew enough about it for it not to affect me as much as it did. Within an hour of getting there I was staggering around with a lump in my throat and not entirely dry eyes. It's definitely something that has to be seen in person for the full effect to be realised.
Possibly made all the more poignant by visiting just after Christmas. If you look back to the photo the OP put up with the photos of the inmates, the central corridor of nearly all the halls has those, albeit just the number of inmates that would have been in the hall/barrack at any one time (think it's 600-1000). Many of the photos had a single flower resting on them, which had been left by friends or relatives.
I also thought that the Polish personality, national style, call it what you will contributed to how effective the museum is as well. Poles are very straight talking, and that comes through in the information boards. I'm also not sure that if it were in the UK, curators here would be brave enough to have displays on the scale they have there.
There's a room with 2000kg of human hair in it, which is a lot. I couldn't help thinking that a British museum would have a normal sized case with some hair, and a photo of the whopping great pile they found.
As for an example of the straight talking, here's one...
"You are entering a courtyard where the SS murdered thousands of people. Please maintain silence here: remember their suffering and have respect for their memory."
As I approached that there was a guy with his head bowed under the guard tower at the end of the road that leads through the camp. I didn't think it was fair to snap him, even though it was a very moving scene.
I would love to go and pay my respects, but I don't think I could manage it. Things like this really hit me, especially as my family were so lucky that we lost no-one throughout both wars.
On a school trip to Belgium/France when I was 16 we went to Thiepval, and as I realised the whole monument was covered in names I just broke down. All my mates were haring around on cheap cider chatting to each other, and I had to hide for fear of having the piss taken.
The one thing I have always said I will do though is go back to Belgium for the 100th anniversaries. I was very lucky to be there for the 80th anniversary of the Somme, and met a veteran. By the time the 100th rolls round there will be no veterans left. It's up to us to honour the fallen now.
On a school trip to Belgium/France when I was 16 we went to Thiepval, and as I realised the whole monument was covered in names I just broke down. All my mates were haring around on cheap cider chatting to each other, and I had to hide for fear of having the piss taken.
The one thing I have always said I will do though is go back to Belgium for the 100th anniversaries. I was very lucky to be there for the 80th anniversary of the Somme, and met a veteran. By the time the 100th rolls round there will be no veterans left. It's up to us to honour the fallen now.
Thanks for sharing PV, very moving. I can't imagine how hard it must be to take photos of that for fear of trivialising the events that took place there - I think you've maintained a sombre and appropriate tone.
An unfortunate choice of words but I think the sentiment is correct. There are young adults walking around today who don't know what happened in WWII and don't know anything about the persecution of the Jews. At the very least this stuff should be taught in schools - Lest we forget.
Simpo Two said:
jetskidia said:
Its a place everyone should be made to visit I believe!
Made to?Podie said:
HereBeMonsters said:
I would love to go and pay my respects, but I don't think I could manage it.
I strongly recommend you go, it's like to place on earth (thankfully). If nothing else it gives you a little perspective - especially when people moan about how crap their life is...HereBeMonsters said:
Podie said:
HereBeMonsters said:
I would love to go and pay my respects, but I don't think I could manage it.
I strongly recommend you go, it's like to place on earth (thankfully). If nothing else it gives you a little perspective - especially when people moan about how crap their life is...We visited Dachau in September while staying in Munich. Dachau was apparently the template for all the other camps. Dachau is a lot more cleaned than the others because it was used for refugees after the war which started to "improve" the place. A lot of it has been recreated.
The pics we took start here http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/image/103269225
The pics we took start here http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/image/103269225
miniman said:
Something that makes it all the more unpleasant for me is the obvious quality of the building work. This place wasn't thrown together in a hurry. It was built to last. Presumably to "process" many more victims than it did. Horrifying, to imagine the mindset behind it.
the buildings were originally single storey, Polish army barracks, the building part was making them 2 storey, this was the first forced work the Germans made the Jews carry out.when we first entered Auschwitz 1 there was something that didn't quite fit with what we were expecting , then we realised, it was how new it all looked, this then bought it home how recently it had all taken place, my Grandads war stories were suddenly a little more real
On your point of longevity, there was a field alongside Auschwitz 2 that was half as big again, they found blue prints later in the Nazi head hunt that detailed 150 further building destined for this field, clear evidence they were planning on expanding.
Despite the reports and rumours before and during the war, my father, who joined up as a regular to fight the Germans, didn't believe in the death camps. When he saw the pictures of the liberation of the camps he was shocked to his core. He kept the paper, the Daily Sketch, just to remind himself of how wrong he could be.
When I was a kid he took me to a fashist meeting in north London organised by the Mosley family. It was one of the formative experiences of my life. The unbridled hate was really quite terrifying to see and it wasn't aimed at me.
My father reckoned that it could have happened over here. There were attacks on Jews in the East End of London on a daily basis before the war and no one seemed to care. He saw three being chased by a group of Mosley supporters and one attacked on the ground, being kicked. He tried to intervene but failed to stop it. He thinks the chap was killed but there was nothing in the papers the following day as most were ultra right-wing.
The death camps don't get enough publicity so thanks to the original poster. Max Mosley's re-enactments in the basement of his Chelsea cellar should be judged against these pictures.
Much as I hate the whole PC thing, if it might stop the horrors of the death camps coming back then perhaps its a weight we'll have to bear.
I am a post war baby and was brought up with a number of Jews, some close friends, whose parents had escaped the holocaust. Unbelievably, despite what they had gone through there was still anti-semitism, supported by the state in some ways.
We should remember what we as humans are capable of. That BNP chap voted into the EU parliament reckoned that we should machine gun the boats the illegal immigrants use to cross the Mediterranean.
Well done to the OP.
When I was a kid he took me to a fashist meeting in north London organised by the Mosley family. It was one of the formative experiences of my life. The unbridled hate was really quite terrifying to see and it wasn't aimed at me.
My father reckoned that it could have happened over here. There were attacks on Jews in the East End of London on a daily basis before the war and no one seemed to care. He saw three being chased by a group of Mosley supporters and one attacked on the ground, being kicked. He tried to intervene but failed to stop it. He thinks the chap was killed but there was nothing in the papers the following day as most were ultra right-wing.
The death camps don't get enough publicity so thanks to the original poster. Max Mosley's re-enactments in the basement of his Chelsea cellar should be judged against these pictures.
Much as I hate the whole PC thing, if it might stop the horrors of the death camps coming back then perhaps its a weight we'll have to bear.
I am a post war baby and was brought up with a number of Jews, some close friends, whose parents had escaped the holocaust. Unbelievably, despite what they had gone through there was still anti-semitism, supported by the state in some ways.
We should remember what we as humans are capable of. That BNP chap voted into the EU parliament reckoned that we should machine gun the boats the illegal immigrants use to cross the Mediterranean.
Well done to the OP.
BigAlinEmbra said:
f
king great photo
Chap, would you find awfully not uploading 4Mb files to the forum? It really cocks things up. Ta!king great photoDerek, there's a world of difference between killing X million people and simply stopping them from coming in.
Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 2nd August 22:13
Simpo Two said:
BigAlinEmbra said:
fking great photo
Chap, would you find awfully not uploading 4Mb files to the forum? It really cocks things up. Ta!king great photoDerek, there's a world of difference between killing X million people and simply stopping them from coming in.
Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 2nd August 22:13
R60EST said:
How can we go from a thread as poignant as this to moaning about file size ffs , time and place, go to website feedback if it bothers you that much
Photo forum, posting rules. If you want people to look at your photos and have a group weep about the holocaust, make it easy by posting sensible size files. Stop being so bleeding pious. This is not a forum for politics or anti-semitism, it's about photography. The OP's photos were very good and very thought provoking, let's leave it at that. And kindly earn a bit more respect than 312 posts before you use acronyms like 'FFS' on me.Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 2nd August 23:46
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