Clutch master cylinder
Discussion
if you look at the links wapsipurt's site says he supplies the connector pipes, brackets etc. I'd suggest you measure yours and email him and ask him if he can make up a copper pipe to the length you need, if he can't ask what size the landrover one is as you may be able to shorten if too long, or use coils to take up flex/movement between gearbox and body
emailed them today, asking them to supply a pipe that fits - waiting for a reply.
Spent another hour visiting grease monkey garages and scrap yards this morning. All failed to find a solution, muttering things like 'specialist parts, 'not seen one of them for a while'' and 'you'll be lucky to get anything to fit that'. Surely it should not be this difficult to change the master and slave cylinder, and get stuck for the sake of the connecting pipe.
Going to visit the local clutch specialist in the week to see what they come up with.
Spent another hour visiting grease monkey garages and scrap yards this morning. All failed to find a solution, muttering things like 'specialist parts, 'not seen one of them for a while'' and 'you'll be lucky to get anything to fit that'. Surely it should not be this difficult to change the master and slave cylinder, and get stuck for the sake of the connecting pipe.
Going to visit the local clutch specialist in the week to see what they come up with.
mikee boy said:
I'm just about to order a new clutch master and slave cylinders. Are these the correct parts?
SLAVE
MASTER
both for the 90/110 sereies of Land Rover.
Finally after trail around most of Leicester over the last few days, I found somewhere that could make me a hydraulic line to fit the Landrover master and slave I got a few days ago. A chap in one garage that used to prepare Fords for racing and restored a number of classics and sports cars, recognised the parts as 'Landrover'. He said there was no need to pay much more than £10 each for them, which is what Wapsipurt charge. He had used Landrover cylinders on lots of Ford race cars.SLAVE
MASTER
both for the 90/110 sereies of Land Rover.
A standard copper pipe cannot be fitted, from I have been told more than once, due to the size difference of the hole on the master and slave. Bonding and Reline of Leicester made a hose with a 7/16th x 20 threaded connector at one end, and 3/8th x 24 connector at the other. The new line is a hydraulic rubber hose with metal tails at each end. The original copper line was 95cm long and the new line was made to replace it. It was supplied with the tails straight which I then bent to shape, curving them around a large socket to maintain a curve rather than a sharp bend. They charged me £20 and made it up while I waited.
The Landrover slave needed to have a few mm filed away from a ridge on one side as it was catching the clutch housing, preventing it fitting in place. You need to re-use the push rod from the old slave and this simply slides through the round rubber seal. To get the salve in and out, you need to slacken off the two 13mm nuts that hold it to the mounting bracket, and them remove remove the 17mm nut and bolt that holds the bracket to clutch housing. The large rubber outer cover over the level needs to be squeezed and twisted to remove it from the clutch housing.
The Landrover master fits fine, but the threaded push rod supplied is the wrong thread for the connector that attaches it to the pedal. You therefore need to use the push rod and connector from the old master. There is a circlip holding the retaining washer in place on the master (underneath the rubber seal) that needs to be removed to get the push rod out. The master on my car also had some silicone sealer between it and the bulkhead, and I removed all the old sealer and resealed the new one.
Bleeding the clutch is relatively easy to do using the bleed nipple on the slave, but is is a two person job, unless you arms as long as a orangutan. I was told fill the master,to open the nipple and press the pedal once only to get fluid through the system. Then close the nipple, and top up the master (which should not be empty if you only pressed the pedal once) before bleeding any air out. Open the nipple, press and hold the pedal, close the nipple and let the pedal back out, Repeat this a few times. I do not have one of those fancy bleeding bottles, so zip tied a balloon over the end of the bleed nipple.
Other than that, it is an easy job to do. I did it with the car on axle stands. I should have taken some photos, but was covered in grease.
Hi Chris, good to see you are still with us, especially now Norman is leaving. I did a Google search and did come up with previous posts on this issue. So using Google more to search for S info would prevent 'reinventing the wheel' and help ensure new info is added to past experience.
I used the landrover ones with a standard bit of brake pipe and fittings on a replacement I did on a 2.9 - it makes the pedal a fraction stiffer due to the smaller bore pipe but at least any mechanic worth their salt can fix it if it breaks as its all really standard stuff, and cheap too.
Maybe it should go on useful links??
Also make sure the pipe feeds the bottom union and the bleed valve is at the top (or the higher one of the two!) otherwise bleeding it is a bleeding nightmare!
Hi Richard I don't look on here as often as I did but do still lurk around
Maybe it should go on useful links??
Also make sure the pipe feeds the bottom union and the bleed valve is at the top (or the higher one of the two!) otherwise bleeding it is a bleeding nightmare!
Hi Richard I don't look on here as often as I did but do still lurk around
Edited by Barkychoc on Tuesday 24th September 16:19
The slave cylinder that came off the car had the bleed valve at the bottom, so the new one went back like that, although putting the bleed at the top does make sense now you mention it.
It seems ok, and loads better than it was before, but it might get even better. What are the symptoms of all the air not being removed?
Will swap it over when I next have the car up in the air.
It seems ok, and loads better than it was before, but it might get even better. What are the symptoms of all the air not being removed?
Will swap it over when I next have the car up in the air.
Edited by Smokey Boyer on Tuesday 24th September 21:05
greymrj said:
especially now Norman is leaving.
I replaced my slave last year and the guys on here held my hand for most of it! Got an identical part from a classic parts supplier who was very helpful. My thread would have been last may or june 2012. In the end I replaced the pipe too as there was a split at the end - took in the old one to a hydraulics places and they reused the fittings on a new bit of pipe.
IMHO, either replace like for like, or go for land rover items and a flexi pipe.
I have gone for an Aeroquip steel braided hose with banjo bolt fittings at each end (the different size banjos are readily available)Guys, I need a bit of info from V8 owners please.
Could you please check first of all the diameter of the clutch pipe. Is it 3/16 as the V6 or 1/4"
Can you check the union at the master cylinder and see if (if you can) it is 3/8 or 7/16 (UNF)
This is an issue to do with parts codings, I want to be absolutely clear whether there are any differences between the V6 and V8 S in this respect.
Obviously I am looking for info on the original set up, however if you have changed to Landrover I'd like to know (I already have Landrover data)
Could you please check first of all the diameter of the clutch pipe. Is it 3/16 as the V6 or 1/4"
Can you check the union at the master cylinder and see if (if you can) it is 3/8 or 7/16 (UNF)
This is an issue to do with parts codings, I want to be absolutely clear whether there are any differences between the V6 and V8 S in this respect.
Obviously I am looking for info on the original set up, however if you have changed to Landrover I'd like to know (I already have Landrover data)
greymrj said:
....the diameter of the clutch pipe. Is it 3/16 as the V6 or 1/4"....
As far as I know i still have the original pipework and the outside diameter = 1/4"greymrj said:
....the union at the master cylinder and see if (if you can) it is 3/8 or 7/16 (UNF)
The clutch m/cyl was replaced in March 2006 by a TVR dealer. I don't know if this was a TVR or a LR part but they were TVR dealers so one would assume they used the TVR part. The part number on the invoice is Q0012. Does that help? The union measures 7/8" across the flats but it is bit worn and the 7/16" spanner is quite a lose fit. The 11mm spanner is a bit tighter.Any help?
Was it from a Seddon-Atkinson?greymrj said:
Could you please check first of all the diameter of the clutch pipe. Is it 3/16 as the V6 or 1/4"
Original clutch pipe on my S3 was 1/4" od, not 3/16" (brake pipe size)This makes sense to me as a lot more fluid has to move to operate a clutch as opposed to the brakes (think how far the pedal travels) and a small bore 3/16" pipe will offer far more resistance making the clutch operation heavier.
Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 18th August 23:43
Oh bugger! Don’t tell me that all V6's didn’t have the same clutch pipe diameter!
I have just looked at a couple of posts and pictures and it could be that the earlier cars have 3/16 pipe but later cars and V8's may have 1/4 pipe.
My own car ('88 S1) has 3/16 for both:
The reason I need to clarify this is that 3/16 pipe would normally use a 3/8UNF union, whereas 1/4 pipe would use a 7/16 union. Which would suggest the connection to master cylinder on the V8 and some V6 is different, in other words the master cylinder could be dimensionally the same but the output union differs, i.e. two different cylinders. Need this info to confirm if the S parts lists should include 2 different master cylinders
That would also explain why the threads about changing pipe unions are not consistent!
Can I get a few guys with cars of different ages and V6/V8 to see if I can build up a picture please.
I have just looked at a couple of posts and pictures and it could be that the earlier cars have 3/16 pipe but later cars and V8's may have 1/4 pipe.
My own car ('88 S1) has 3/16 for both:
The reason I need to clarify this is that 3/16 pipe would normally use a 3/8UNF union, whereas 1/4 pipe would use a 7/16 union. Which would suggest the connection to master cylinder on the V8 and some V6 is different, in other words the master cylinder could be dimensionally the same but the output union differs, i.e. two different cylinders. Need this info to confirm if the S parts lists should include 2 different master cylinders
That would also explain why the threads about changing pipe unions are not consistent!
Can I get a few guys with cars of different ages and V6/V8 to see if I can build up a picture please.
Yes Mike, to enable 3/16 pipe to fit to new 7/16UNF Series 3 Defender master cylinder.
(If the pipe is 1/4 it would fit a 7/16UNF union direct, hence some of the inconsistencies in owners reports on the piping connection problems they have had)
I cannot be sure my 3/16 pipe is original, although a couple of other peoples pictures appear to show both brake and clutch pipes the same size. That is what I want to find out. Essentially the issue is whether TVR Parts Ltd need to stock two different clutch master cylinders, or one with the 7/16UNF connectors, and stock the adaptor for those who need 3/8UNF.
(If the pipe is 1/4 it would fit a 7/16UNF union direct, hence some of the inconsistencies in owners reports on the piping connection problems they have had)
I cannot be sure my 3/16 pipe is original, although a couple of other peoples pictures appear to show both brake and clutch pipes the same size. That is what I want to find out. Essentially the issue is whether TVR Parts Ltd need to stock two different clutch master cylinders, or one with the 7/16UNF connectors, and stock the adaptor for those who need 3/8UNF.
Thanks Adrian I appreciate that information.
If that is the case, and we can get enough info to prove it for certain, then it appears TVR Parts ltd can stock ONE clutch master cylinder for ALL S types, V6 or V8, plus an adaptor for those cars (and there appear to be several at least) which have been converted to 3/16 at some time.
Can I get more confirmation please.
If that is the case, and we can get enough info to prove it for certain, then it appears TVR Parts ltd can stock ONE clutch master cylinder for ALL S types, V6 or V8, plus an adaptor for those cars (and there appear to be several at least) which have been converted to 3/16 at some time.
Can I get more confirmation please.
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