Clutch master cylinder
Discussion
Right then folks, help needed.
My technical knowledge makes Longers look like a crack F1 mechanic, so bear with me.
Took the S out for a spin in the lovely weather yesterday after taxing it the day before. As is normal for my life of attrition (the baskets won't grind me down though) I ended the journey on the back of an AA flatbed, getting home a shade before zero dot thirty!!
Anyway, the issue was / is a collapsed master clutch cylinder - the diaphragm just won't be freed - the AA man tried for over an hour in freezing, dark roadside conditions.
Best solution I think is a new one but how many are there to choose from!!!
So can anyone help confirm the one in this link is the right one - 0.7 gauge?
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/BRAKE-&-CLUT...
Many thanks for your patience and support for this numpty.
Having watched the old one being removed, I reckon I might have a crack at fitting the new one, getting a mate to help bleed it once fitted.
Cheers,
Max
My technical knowledge makes Longers look like a crack F1 mechanic, so bear with me.
Took the S out for a spin in the lovely weather yesterday after taxing it the day before. As is normal for my life of attrition (the baskets won't grind me down though) I ended the journey on the back of an AA flatbed, getting home a shade before zero dot thirty!!
Anyway, the issue was / is a collapsed master clutch cylinder - the diaphragm just won't be freed - the AA man tried for over an hour in freezing, dark roadside conditions.
Best solution I think is a new one but how many are there to choose from!!!
So can anyone help confirm the one in this link is the right one - 0.7 gauge?
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/BRAKE-&-CLUT...
Many thanks for your patience and support for this numpty.
Having watched the old one being removed, I reckon I might have a crack at fitting the new one, getting a mate to help bleed it once fitted.
Cheers,
Max
Hi Max,
I'm struggling to understand your actual problem.
Is the master cyl valve/piston jammed?
The diaphragm is an integral part of the clutch pressure plate which is operated by the release bearing, all situated inside the gearbox bell-housing.
The most usual failure of the master cyl. is due to degraded seals, internal or end seal, and can often be coaxed into 'get you home mode' by a top-lup & vigorous pumping of the clutch pedal. Was the fluid level low? Is there any fluid dripping down inside the footwell? Is there a leak from the slave cyl underneath the car?
Was the slave pushrod moving the actuator lever? Sometimes the rod wears the actuator lever & breaks through, giving similar symptoms to a knackered master cyl.
If your AA man has correctly diagnosed the fault, the original m/cyl was I believe Morris Marina, no longer available, but an alternative is Land Rover Series III, although the pipe thread is different ( 3/8 UNF ) so a new pipe will need to be made up.
The pattern m/cyl Britpart STC 500100 is available from island_4x4.co.uk at a much cheaper price £8.33 + vat + pp. recently.
It may also be worth replacing the slave cyl while your at it if it's still on original seals, but make sure you have a correct diagnosis. ( Bit late now you have the m/cyl in your hands! )
HTH, any problems, come back here & let us know.
Glen
Edit: alternative part available from Wapsipurt Land Rover, Gt Yarmouth.
Part No.550732, price £10.99 + vat + 2.99 pp.
I'm struggling to understand your actual problem.
Is the master cyl valve/piston jammed?
The diaphragm is an integral part of the clutch pressure plate which is operated by the release bearing, all situated inside the gearbox bell-housing.
The most usual failure of the master cyl. is due to degraded seals, internal or end seal, and can often be coaxed into 'get you home mode' by a top-lup & vigorous pumping of the clutch pedal. Was the fluid level low? Is there any fluid dripping down inside the footwell? Is there a leak from the slave cyl underneath the car?
Was the slave pushrod moving the actuator lever? Sometimes the rod wears the actuator lever & breaks through, giving similar symptoms to a knackered master cyl.
If your AA man has correctly diagnosed the fault, the original m/cyl was I believe Morris Marina, no longer available, but an alternative is Land Rover Series III, although the pipe thread is different ( 3/8 UNF ) so a new pipe will need to be made up.
The pattern m/cyl Britpart STC 500100 is available from island_4x4.co.uk at a much cheaper price £8.33 + vat + pp. recently.
It may also be worth replacing the slave cyl while your at it if it's still on original seals, but make sure you have a correct diagnosis. ( Bit late now you have the m/cyl in your hands! )
HTH, any problems, come back here & let us know.
Glen
Edit: alternative part available from Wapsipurt Land Rover, Gt Yarmouth.
Part No.550732, price £10.99 + vat + 2.99 pp.
Edited by glenrobbo on Sunday 3rd March 14:37
Edited by glenrobbo on Sunday 3rd March 14:46
There is one for sale on ebay right now, which is a Marina one, and should go straight on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350438023774?ssPageName=...
Tony. TCB.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350438023774?ssPageName=...
Tony. TCB.
Glenn,
Thanks for the response - it'll be me using the wrong terms that has caused your confusion with my diagnosis. The issue is definitely with the master cylinder insides.
Your comprehensive response means nothing to me unfortunately due to my incompetence/lack of knowledge rather than what you've written.
When I say diaphragm, I mean the "bit" inside the master cylinder that the push rod presses into to make the fluid compress in to the slave. There's been no leakage, so I think the seals are/were all ok. The moving bit inside the master cylinder seems wedged fast. He (AA man) tried in vain to free it. There was loads of crud and crap inside so it may be that that is causing the problem.
I suppose if I could get it moving, then a seal kit might be enough.
Greg has also suggested swapping the slave cylinder too so if I end up changing both, with a new connecting pipe it eradicates the difference in connector diameter.
Thanks for the response - it'll be me using the wrong terms that has caused your confusion with my diagnosis. The issue is definitely with the master cylinder insides.
Your comprehensive response means nothing to me unfortunately due to my incompetence/lack of knowledge rather than what you've written.
When I say diaphragm, I mean the "bit" inside the master cylinder that the push rod presses into to make the fluid compress in to the slave. There's been no leakage, so I think the seals are/were all ok. The moving bit inside the master cylinder seems wedged fast. He (AA man) tried in vain to free it. There was loads of crud and crap inside so it may be that that is causing the problem.
I suppose if I could get it moving, then a seal kit might be enough.
Greg has also suggested swapping the slave cylinder too so if I end up changing both, with a new connecting pipe it eradicates the difference in connector diameter.
ElvisWedgely said:
There is one for sale on ebay right now, which is a Marina one, and should go straight on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350438023774?ssPageName=...
Tony. TCB.
Cheers. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350438023774?ssPageName=...
Tony. TCB.
Don't go down the route of fitting seal kits. They are rarely successful long term. Change both master and slave cylinders at the same time. Both master and slave cylinders from a Morris Marina are available on ebay and they should go straight on. I have already sent you a link for the master cylinder and here is a link for the slave.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150980517930?_trksid=p51...
Tony. TCB.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150980517930?_trksid=p51...
Tony. TCB.
I would definitely go for the new one Tony has found, your old one is probably seized with corrosion, and if you did manage to get the piston out, the bore would probably end up too scored to be any good even with new seals.
Hydraulic fluid absorbs moisture from the air, and plays havoc with metal components. That's one reason it is recommended to change brake fluid every couple of years.
The other reason is water in the system can boil under braking temps, & cause a severe drop in braking efficiency.
Make sure you bleed plenty of fluid off after replacement, and make sure it runs clear in the bleed tube.
Good luck,
Glen.
Hydraulic fluid absorbs moisture from the air, and plays havoc with metal components. That's one reason it is recommended to change brake fluid every couple of years.
The other reason is water in the system can boil under braking temps, & cause a severe drop in braking efficiency.
Make sure you bleed plenty of fluid off after replacement, and make sure it runs clear in the bleed tube.
Good luck,
Glen.
ElvisWedgely said:
Don't go down the route of fitting seal kits. They are rarely successful long term. Change both master and slave cylinders at the same time. Both master and slave cylinders from a Morris Marina are available on ebay and they should go straight on.
Go for new without question but Marina slave is not right ( look at picture, no mounting bolt holes), Land Rover is the common substitute or buy whole lot from TVR specialist if you don't want "issues" with different thread/pipe sizes.Pipe should be 1/4", not brake pipe which is 3/16"
phillpot said:
Go for new without question but Marina slave is not right ( look at picture, no mounting bolt holes), Land Rover is the common substitute or buy whole lot from TVR specialist if you don't want "issues" with different thread/pipe sizes.
Pipe should be 1/4", not brake pipe which is 3/16"
Thanks Mike - bought the new master in the link above but was just looking at the slave, and was unsure if it "looked right". The bible doesn't have great slave pics and was about to start investigating on the web.Pipe should be 1/4", not brake pipe which is 3/16"
Might have to have a look at what's actually on the car and start from there. At least I shoud be able to get mobile again soon when the new master arrives.
This forum never ceases to amaze me with the vast knowledge and support it supplies - thank you all.
Max
I have not fitted either one of these to my car, but am going by the information that I have been previously given. Please check with your own car that visually they do look the same. Looking at my own car the master cylinder looks identical, but from what I can see the slave cylinder on mine does not have the two bolt flanges from memory (though I could be wrong) I will double check this again next time I take the car out. Could it be a case where some have the bolt flanges and some don't? Best to check your own car before ordering.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
Hi Max,
As well as replacing mater & slave I'd also highly recommend ditching the copper pipe & replacing with a flexi hose. When we had issues in the Alps it was due to the pipe having fatigued... hardly surprising given that one end is fixed and the other has been twisting & flexing for the last 20 odd years. TVR obviously realised that it wasn't that clever and introduced a 'pig tail' coil to provide some relief at the slave cylinder end on the Griff / Chim.
I had my flexi made up by Neil when TVR Car Parts were still operating: I'm sure he could help you out (now ML Performance).
Oh, and a bit of stainless bling never goes amiss (as I'm sure Mike will agree)
As well as replacing mater & slave I'd also highly recommend ditching the copper pipe & replacing with a flexi hose. When we had issues in the Alps it was due to the pipe having fatigued... hardly surprising given that one end is fixed and the other has been twisting & flexing for the last 20 odd years. TVR obviously realised that it wasn't that clever and introduced a 'pig tail' coil to provide some relief at the slave cylinder end on the Griff / Chim.
I had my flexi made up by Neil when TVR Car Parts were still operating: I'm sure he could help you out (now ML Performance).
Oh, and a bit of stainless bling never goes amiss (as I'm sure Mike will agree)
Agree with Max you can't beat this forum. Thanks for all you help guys.
Ironically just before talking to Max by the side if the road I had been googling how to fix my dripping aqualisa shower and no guesses where I ended up. Will be taking it to bits shortly and hopefully saving the £800 (list price) on a new one!!
Ironically just before talking to Max by the side if the road I had been googling how to fix my dripping aqualisa shower and no guesses where I ended up. Will be taking it to bits shortly and hopefully saving the £800 (list price) on a new one!!
PompeyTim said:
Hi Max,
As well as replacing mater & slave I'd also highly recommend ditching the copper pipe & replacing with a flexi hose. When we had issues in the Alps it was due to the pipe having fatigued... hardly surprising given that one end is fixed and the other has been twisting & flexing for the last 20 odd years. TVR obviously realised that it wasn't that clever and introduced a 'pig tail' coil to provide some relief at the slave cylinder end on the Griff / Chim.
I had my flexi made up by Neil when TVR Car Parts were still operating: I'm sure he could help you out (now ML Performance).
Oh, and a bit of stainless bling never goes amiss (as I'm sure Mike will agree)
do you recall how long the flexi-hose was in the end? i may well bite the bullet and swap both ;-/As well as replacing mater & slave I'd also highly recommend ditching the copper pipe & replacing with a flexi hose. When we had issues in the Alps it was due to the pipe having fatigued... hardly surprising given that one end is fixed and the other has been twisting & flexing for the last 20 odd years. TVR obviously realised that it wasn't that clever and introduced a 'pig tail' coil to provide some relief at the slave cylinder end on the Griff / Chim.
I had my flexi made up by Neil when TVR Car Parts were still operating: I'm sure he could help you out (now ML Performance).
Oh, and a bit of stainless bling never goes amiss (as I'm sure Mike will agree)
If you're confused about Greg replying its 'cause the car's in his garage whilst I have a pile of Griff bits in mine!
Seem to remember that I just took the pipe off & posted it to Neil to use as a pattern, but as Greg said I had a banjo fitted at the master cylinder end. The other end is just a straight fitting.
Oh, one small tip... DON'T drop one of the slave cylinder mounting bolts into the hole in the bell housing... you can guess how I know this!
Seem to remember that I just took the pipe off & posted it to Neil to use as a pattern, but as Greg said I had a banjo fitted at the master cylinder end. The other end is just a straight fitting.
Oh, one small tip... DON'T drop one of the slave cylinder mounting bolts into the hole in the bell housing... you can guess how I know this!
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