2.8 Cologne timing gear

[greymrj]

Couldn't find any previous posting on this one. Mine is an S1 with the 2.8 engine. I am about to (very carefully!) rebuild my spare engine to replace the tired one that is in at the moment. The 2.8 has the 'fibre' gear tooth ring on the iron cam gear. I have heard that these can give trouble and strip. The alternative is an alloy cam gear wheel of the type sold by Burton.
But has anybody actually had a problem with one of these cam gear wheels? Is it a myth or an issue I really need to face?

[phillpot]

If its lasted this long

[Griffinr]

No experience personally, but I have found Burton Power very helpful on the advice front and they should know.
Rob.

[mikel003003]

The alloy ones are also on eBay, I have often pondered this and decided that it is a job on the long term list, out of interest I spoke to a local mechanic a while back,he was very familiar with the set up having worked on the v6 and v4 variation found in saabs, he said he had never heard of one stripping, so myth?? Would be interested in other people's experience

[phillpot]

Getting shot of the fibre gear seems the norm with any degree of tuning on the older Essex V6, my Taimar has a metal gear, they are noisy!

Don't recall anyone with a 2.8 S ever telling a tale of woe on here but if it gives you peace of mind why not go for it?

[greymrj]

Interesting so far, thanks guys. So no confirmed problems so far at least and the noise issue is something to think about.

[Stew Mc]

Hi. Back in the mid 80's these gears were prone to stripping. Used to find large bits of gear in the sump that would become apparent when the oil was changed and what was left of the gear could be seen through the drain hole when the oil was nearly fully drained. From memory, the sumps were a mare to remove so the gear was replaced as a cheap repair and the bits left in the sump.

Am guessing the quality of the gear improved at some point as I have not heard about one strip for years.

Cheers, Stew.

[Alan Whitaker]

Hi All
I used to go through the fiber gears in my Essex engine, I looked at the ally ones but thought they would not last, I still have the engine stuck in the shed and may use it one day in a project, I designed my own gears so they could be adjusted on a vernier system and had the blanks made from en40b steel, got them down to the weight of the steel ones.

[greymrj]

Might be worth adding a bit more on this for 2.8 owners.

I have now spoken to 2 engine re-manufacturers and 2 tuning part specialists. The consensus is:
Essex engine, fibre tooth cam wheel break up is an acknowledged problem.

Cologne engine, break up of fibre tooth cam wheel is virtually unheard of even when tuned. Check that there are no significant signs of wear (and these wheels apparently wear very well)or damage caused by debris in oil or careless removal, if good then no need to replace even at high mileage.

I have now checked, with an engine re-manufacturer, cam wheels from 3 engines, all appear perfect.*

There is also the opinion that fitting a metal wheel, apart from greatly increased noise,would be likely to increase wear in the cam drive. I will refit a fibre toothed cam gear.

(*bit of a puzzle came out though, the cam wheels differed in weight quite significantly. One appeared to have a thinner web in the casting than the others although all the crucial fit dimensions were the same.)

[mikel003003]

Thanks for that, very interesting and reassuring

[Kitchski]

I'm currently going down this road myself. I'd have left the original one in, but I managed to drop it off the side of the workbench! It landed on the corner of the tooth and has flattened it slightly. It may still be fine, but it fell about 3ft on a hard floor, so now I'm concerned I've fractured it.

Just tried ringing Burton, and didn't get the normally helpful response as I don't think he knew much on Colognes. They do a steel and an alloy option, but the alloy comes with a new crank sprocket too. He said the alloy was better, though it's more expensive (so he would say that then, wouldn't he?!)

I'd rather not splash out if I can avoid it, but because I've dropped it I'm wondering if it's worth risking it now, especially as I'm going to great lengths to have the rest of the chassis/drivetrain in A1 condition!

[greymrj]

Hi Richard, I very much doubt you will have fractured the gear wheel as it is rather 'over-engineered'! Having researched this I wouldnt go down the alloy wheel route unless I was racing the engine and accepted regular rebuilds. If you are really unhappy using the original gear wheel then I am pretty sure I can dig up a good one from my shelves of 2.8 bits.

[phillpot]

Kitchski said:

It landed on the corner of the tooth and has flattened it slightly.

At best it will probably cause an annoying noise, at worst it will fail (imho). I wouldn't use it!

[Kitchski]

greymrj said:

Hi Richard, I very much doubt you will have fractured the gear wheel as it is rather 'over-engineered'! Having researched this I wouldnt go down the alloy wheel route unless I was racing the engine and accepted regular rebuilds. If you are really unhappy using the original gear wheel then I am pretty sure I can dig up a good one from my shelves of 2.8 bits.

I'd be very grateful if you do manage to dig anything out! I haven't been able to find a used one, which was of course my other option.

[Kitchski]

phillpot said:

Kitchski said:

It landed on the corner of the tooth and has flattened it slightly.

At best it will probably cause an annoying noise, at worst it will fail (imho). I wouldn't use it!

This is my thinking. I was just hoping someone would say "oh don't worry, those things are stronger than cast iron!"

Even then I think I'd have been worried....

[greymrj]

I should be able to have a look tonight and get back to you. R

[Kitchski]

Thanks

[greymrj]

Hi Richard, hmmm, not quite as good as I thought. I do have one spare but it isnt perfect, on examination I have found a chip on one tooth and a couple of other small marks. It came from an engine with about 95k miles on it. I would be perfectly happy to post it to you for the cost of postage if you want it, and you can make a judgement between the one you have and this one. Alternatively you might be lucky and find someone from the Wedge forum or the Capri Owners Club who might have a perfect one for sale.

[Kitchski]

Ah well, thanks for looking anyway. I might just have to go with the alloy one. Removes all doubt really, and there are still many I speak to who consider the timing gear to be a weak link on the Cologne. They're probably getting mixed up with the Essex, but it might still be a selling feature when the day eventually comes

[greymrj]

I dont blame you. I did consider the alloy gear mainly because lightening the extremely heavy cam gearing would be an advantage, much more so in my opinion, than lightening the flywheel. This is an engine which delivers loads of torque but doesnt like high revs. If you are thinking of lightening to increase revs then you will have to look very seriously at the con rods and particularly fitting higher spec big end retaining bolts. I really would have a good talk with Burton Engineering, despite the experience you had, they do have guys there who understand the Cologne engine and their technical catalogue does contain advice (and indeed warnings) about trying to tune this engine. At the end of the day, the siamesed ports and the nature of the K-Jet system inevitably limit tuning potential unless you want to spend a silly amount!