1988 S1 brake servo and master cylinder
Discussion
I had a search on the later Mk's and they looked quite different although there must have been a changeover period.
The link is below but they are looking for £300.00 with VAT so not exactly a cheap option from this place! But it may help in sourcing from elsewhere and identifying....it does say Girling!
http://www.newpartsonline.co.uk/index.php?option=P...
The link is below but they are looking for £300.00 with VAT so not exactly a cheap option from this place! But it may help in sourcing from elsewhere and identifying....it does say Girling!
http://www.newpartsonline.co.uk/index.php?option=P...
Bow,wow,wow indeed thanks Glen;)
Lets not get carried away here. Finding what Phil and Glen have on their cars is unlikely to lead to something which might provide a solution for later cars. Finding that a Cortina servo was perhaps fitted on a couple of early S's , given when the Cortina went out of production, isnt much help for most S's.
You can see the distinctly squarer profile on the new servo Phil has.
Presuming that servo is an exact match when Phil takes the old one out, I would like the dimensional details for reference please. Phil, you presumably intend to use your old mastercylinder? If so please do make sure the piston drive pin from the old and the new servo are the same, and project the same amount.
While you are at it, can you please check and advise on the bore of the master cylinder, my guess is that it will be 20.6mm.
My reason for mentioning the sticker on the old servo is that the colour, size and wording might be distinctive to a particular manufacturer, and I can ask a mate about that.
(Note; Just for my ref re Ka. It appears that there are two non ABS systems, the pre 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 3 port and the post 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 4 port. Both use a L/D LM39033. The Ka with ABS uses a 22.2mm and LM39031. Needs checking with the Lucas/TRW original spec)
Lets not get carried away here. Finding what Phil and Glen have on their cars is unlikely to lead to something which might provide a solution for later cars. Finding that a Cortina servo was perhaps fitted on a couple of early S's , given when the Cortina went out of production, isnt much help for most S's.
You can see the distinctly squarer profile on the new servo Phil has.
Presuming that servo is an exact match when Phil takes the old one out, I would like the dimensional details for reference please. Phil, you presumably intend to use your old mastercylinder? If so please do make sure the piston drive pin from the old and the new servo are the same, and project the same amount.
While you are at it, can you please check and advise on the bore of the master cylinder, my guess is that it will be 20.6mm.
My reason for mentioning the sticker on the old servo is that the colour, size and wording might be distinctive to a particular manufacturer, and I can ask a mate about that.
(Note; Just for my ref re Ka. It appears that there are two non ABS systems, the pre 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 3 port and the post 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 4 port. Both use a L/D LM39033. The Ka with ABS uses a 22.2mm and LM39031. Needs checking with the Lucas/TRW original spec)
greymrj said:
Bow,wow,wow indeed thanks Glen;)
Lets not get carried away here. Finding what Phil and Glen have on their cars is unlikely to lead to something which might provide a solution for later cars. Finding that a Cortina servo was perhaps fitted on a couple of early S's , given when the Cortina went out of production, isnt much help for most S's.
You can see the distinctly squarer profile on the new servo Phil has.
Presuming that servo is an exact match when Phil takes the old one out, I would like the dimensional details for reference please. Phil, you presumably intend to use your old mastercylinder? If so please do make sure the piston drive pin from the old and the new servo are the same, and project the same amount.
While you are at it, can you please check and advise on the bore of the master cylinder, my guess is that it will be 20.6mm.
My reason for mentioning the sticker on the old servo is that the colour, size and wording might be distinctive to a particular manufacturer, and I can ask a mate about that.
(Note; Just for my ref re Ka. It appears that there are two non ABS systems, the pre 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 3 port and the post 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 4 port. Both use a L/D LM39033. The Ka with ABS uses a 22.2mm and LM39031. Needs checking with the Lucas/TRW original spec)
Yes I don't think its the answer to everyone's prayers but another piece of the puzzle on variants used I suppose. It also goes to show that the standard brake set-up works well enough with different components and what exactly is standard when it comes to insurance purposes on the S braking system is unclear!Lets not get carried away here. Finding what Phil and Glen have on their cars is unlikely to lead to something which might provide a solution for later cars. Finding that a Cortina servo was perhaps fitted on a couple of early S's , given when the Cortina went out of production, isnt much help for most S's.
You can see the distinctly squarer profile on the new servo Phil has.
Presuming that servo is an exact match when Phil takes the old one out, I would like the dimensional details for reference please. Phil, you presumably intend to use your old mastercylinder? If so please do make sure the piston drive pin from the old and the new servo are the same, and project the same amount.
While you are at it, can you please check and advise on the bore of the master cylinder, my guess is that it will be 20.6mm.
My reason for mentioning the sticker on the old servo is that the colour, size and wording might be distinctive to a particular manufacturer, and I can ask a mate about that.
(Note; Just for my ref re Ka. It appears that there are two non ABS systems, the pre 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 3 port and the post 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 4 port. Both use a L/D LM39033. The Ka with ABS uses a 22.2mm and LM39031. Needs checking with the Lucas/TRW original spec)
It may just give Glen and I answers / another option though and anyone else that sees the thread going forward if they have the same set-up....still not readily available or a cost effective one it would seem though at this point.
The master cylinder is actually ok just needs the seals replaced on the reservoir so yes I'll clean, spray up and use again, I just don't want to pay £300 for a servo without a little searching first. When I do change it the old servo will be donated for research purposes of course and I reckon you're right on the 20.6 for the cylinder...I've seen a few around that look identical and are detailed as such.
Will be sure to adjust the push rod length to match....I like the concern on here although I'm thinking its more for the S than the person
The other thing that amazes me (even given how things are now) is that some people would try and blame someone on here for some free helpful advice they gave if things didn't quite go to plan or they ploughed through a hedge backwards......sign of times gents! No blame from me if I find myself trying to stop the S Flintstone style!! All comments and ideas greatly appreciated.
Phil and Glen,whats the diameter of your servo's?
With the build date crossover I can't help thinking they were "robbed" from the Wedge parts bin?
But judging by this old thread that doesn't make them any easier to source?
phillpot said:
Phil and Glen,whats the diameter of your servo's?
With the build date crossover I can't help thinking they were "robbed" from the Wedge parts bin?
But judging by this old thread that doesn't make them any easier to source?
Phil,With the build date crossover I can't help thinking they were "robbed" from the Wedge parts bin?
But judging by this old thread that doesn't make them any easier to source?
I'd have to measure up to get exact but it must be around 8".
You could be right....I've also noticed one old for sale marked as off of a capri...looks the same.
I think thats the issue we are faced with...pay through the nose for new or buy a suspect old one which is probably as bad as the one you already have..unless completely failed of course.
It may give another option to look out for though.
glenrobbo said:
I shouldn't worry too much Phil, I'll be totally gobsmacked if my memory is correct. 
You see! I told you not to worry 
My memory is indeed absolutely hopeless.Now where were we?
Ah yes! I've just been out with a tape measure, and some bits of wood to use as straight edges and as far as I can judge allowing for parallax error and wonky eyesight, the diameter at the widest point ( the flange ) is approximately about 7.75" or so, which is almost equivalent to 200mm ish or thereabouts. Roughly near enough.So you can award yourself top marks for your guesstimation skills Phil.
Perhaps I was getting confused with the Fiesta servo.
Do I get top marks for confusion?
I trust this clarifies whatever it was we were trying to establish.
Nurse! Where's my medication?glenrobbo said:
You see! I told you not to worry My memory is indeed absolutely hopeless.
Now where were we? Ah yes! I've just been out with a tape measure, and some bits of wood to use as straight edges and as far as I can judge allowing for parallax error and wonky eyesight, the diameter at the widest point ( the flange ) is approximately about 7.75" or so, which is almost equivalent to 200mm ish or thereabouts. Roughly near enough.
So you can award yourself top marks for your guesstimation skills Phil.
Perhaps I was getting confused with the Fiesta servo.
Do I get top marks for confusion?
I trust this clarifies whatever it was we were trying to establish.
Nurse! Where's my medication?
A can of molyslip and a straight jacket will have you sorted in no time Glen! My memory is indeed absolutely hopeless.Now where were we?
Ah yes! I've just been out with a tape measure, and some bits of wood to use as straight edges and as far as I can judge allowing for parallax error and wonky eyesight, the diameter at the widest point ( the flange ) is approximately about 7.75" or so, which is almost equivalent to 200mm ish or thereabouts. Roughly near enough.So you can award yourself top marks for your guesstimation skills Phil.
Perhaps I was getting confused with the Fiesta servo.
Do I get top marks for confusion?
I trust this clarifies whatever it was we were trying to establish.
Nurse! Where's my medication?
The servo....yes of course I was talking the flange end if that's the closest to my guesstimation of 8".....my wife would vouch for my optimism!
Not sure what we have established actually....that our servo's are likely Girling as fitted to the Cortina MK3 or Wedge and that you can't get one unless its knackered or you part with £300.00.....result!
Hi all,
I am new to the S forum but I am currently rescuing a very sad S2 as a track car.
It has probably been covered at an earlier date,but what would be the problem in replacing the servo and master cylinder with one from a Sierra ? Surely they are still plentiful and I know many were a disc/ drum set up of similar sizes?
I now await being shot down in flames but remember I am not restoring a concours car !
I am new to the S forum but I am currently rescuing a very sad S2 as a track car.
It has probably been covered at an earlier date,but what would be the problem in replacing the servo and master cylinder with one from a Sierra ? Surely they are still plentiful and I know many were a disc/ drum set up of similar sizes?
I now await being shot down in flames but remember I am not restoring a concours car !
BillC99 said:
Hi all,
I am new to the S forum but I am currently rescuing a very sad S2 as a track car.
It has probably been covered at an earlier date,but what would be the problem in replacing the servo and master cylinder with one from a Sierra ? Surely they are still plentiful and I know many were a disc/ drum set up of similar sizes?
I now await being shot down in flames but remember I am not restoring a concours car !
Hi Bill,I am new to the S forum but I am currently rescuing a very sad S2 as a track car.
It has probably been covered at an earlier date,but what would be the problem in replacing the servo and master cylinder with one from a Sierra ? Surely they are still plentiful and I know many were a disc/ drum set up of similar sizes?
I now await being shot down in flames but remember I am not restoring a concours car !
I'm also new to the these forums.
Its a fair point bearing in mind the brake set up at the wheels is Sierra based. What has been established not just from this thread but others previously is that there are many variants on the S cars when it comes to the brake set-up.
I suppose the reluctance for many here is trying to stay true to the originality of their particular vehicle and to prove that it is safe to fit other options (beyond reasonable doubt) which is difficult to prove or disprove on an old TVR.
I thought it might be worth reminding owners of this link to the article done by tvrgit who applied the research on compatibility to renew the servo on his SAAB fitted S.
http://www.andrewc.org.uk/tvrgit/servo.html
As far as fitting Sierra parts to a track car goes, I simply do not know. All I can say is that the majority of Sierra do use a 22.2mm master cylinder. The servo diaphragm case is similar in profile to that use on the SAAB and the replacement Fiesta part. I do not however know how easy it would be in practice to fit it, as that depends a lot on the way it mounts to the bulkhead and to the pedal. When we were researching this we were looking for a servo/mastercylinder which was identical in performance AND which could readily be mounted to the S with minimal mods. The Fiesta option had almost identical bolting, projected the same amount into the car and had the pedal clevis in the same position. Nothing significant needed to be done to the bulkhead or pedal box.
My understanding, and I emphasise that I have NOT tested it, is that the servo mounting arrangements on the Sierra are different and the projection into the car is different. The limited details available from the parts catalogues suggests the difference is in the mounting and pedal connection. From what I can tell from photos it does appear different, but just how big the mods would be I simply do not know.
What BillC99 suggests may be on for a track car. Can I ask Bill to get hold of a Sierra servo/mastercylinder unit, and advise us all what the issues are.
I would however point out that there are not exactly loads of Sierra brake servos out there now either! There was only 1 on ebay when I looked. Remember that, although numerous in their time, the latest model Sierras are now 21years old!
http://www.andrewc.org.uk/tvrgit/servo.html
As far as fitting Sierra parts to a track car goes, I simply do not know. All I can say is that the majority of Sierra do use a 22.2mm master cylinder. The servo diaphragm case is similar in profile to that use on the SAAB and the replacement Fiesta part. I do not however know how easy it would be in practice to fit it, as that depends a lot on the way it mounts to the bulkhead and to the pedal. When we were researching this we were looking for a servo/mastercylinder which was identical in performance AND which could readily be mounted to the S with minimal mods. The Fiesta option had almost identical bolting, projected the same amount into the car and had the pedal clevis in the same position. Nothing significant needed to be done to the bulkhead or pedal box.
My understanding, and I emphasise that I have NOT tested it, is that the servo mounting arrangements on the Sierra are different and the projection into the car is different. The limited details available from the parts catalogues suggests the difference is in the mounting and pedal connection. From what I can tell from photos it does appear different, but just how big the mods would be I simply do not know.
What BillC99 suggests may be on for a track car. Can I ask Bill to get hold of a Sierra servo/mastercylinder unit, and advise us all what the issues are.
I would however point out that there are not exactly loads of Sierra brake servos out there now either! There was only 1 on ebay when I looked. Remember that, although numerous in their time, the latest model Sierras are now 21years old!
/\/\/\ wot e sed
also remember the Siera was significantly heavier than the S (or Fiesta)
I too am building a competition S and have gone down the route of the KA servo m/c set up which is the same as more modern TVRs use (I have also used similar discs and calipers too). The KA obviously weighs closer to the S than the Sierra.
Once completed I will be hiring a track to set everything up before running on the public road
also remember the Siera was significantly heavier than the S (or Fiesta)
I too am building a competition S and have gone down the route of the KA servo m/c set up which is the same as more modern TVRs use (I have also used similar discs and calipers too). The KA obviously weighs closer to the S than the Sierra.
Once completed I will be hiring a track to set everything up before running on the public road
magpies said:
I too am building a competition S and have gone down the route of the KA servo m/c set up which is the same as more modern TVRs use (I have also used similar discs and calipers too). The KA obviously weighs closer to the S than the Sierra.
Whatever you do Mike, PLEASE document it with plenty of pictures! Compare the bore and stroke, outlet port arrangements etc of the master cylinder and the mounting, pedal mounting arrangements, diameter and stroke of the servo.I am going to sit back and wait!!!
Gassing Station | S Series | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff