Hethel lotus test track retro event
Discussion
List for 25th updated...
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax - S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Provisional
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax - S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Provisional
List for 25th updated...
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax - S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes
)
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax - S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes
)Another top TVR track day but a real shame about Tel and yosinis problems, I hope yosini didn't get to frosty a reception when he finally got to pick his girl's up from there trip to the stately home.
Not a bad idea about the sprint day it would add a competitive edge to proceedings are there any requirements for car and driver like roll bar and fire proof overalls.
Not a bad idea about the sprint day it would add a competitive edge to proceedings are there any requirements for car and driver like roll bar and fire proof overalls.
trev4 said:
are there any requirements for car and driver like roll bar and fire proof overalls.
Main requirements are overalls and a crash helmet for the driver. No mods needed for the car, and competitors are grouped into classes according to what type of mods they have so the more mods you have the more serious competition you would be up against. We have our own TVR speed championship with a very sociable bunch of competitors so there are plenty of people to chat to if you're interested in finding out more.ClassiChimi said:
Hi Peter (green V8) the evidence of lack of pressure is the disc face, barely any wear on the outside face compared to the inner side. The o/s is fine and you can clearly see the disc has score marks where the pad is biting.
Sliders or pins are brand new and plenty of copper slip applied.
Really violent judder from hi speed when braking,, but driving home and using the brakes normally there's no judder at all. Even firm braking there's no judder but load them up and apply them for a number of seconds and the judder will start and progressively get worse.
That sounds very strange. Sticking sliders doesn't account for all those symptoms but still seems the most likely cause of significantly unequal wear under heavy braking. If you only have three out of four pads working then that might not be obvious under gentle driving but will be horrible under heavy braking - you would expect very uneven braking and tendency to pull to one side and lock one wheel under very heavy braking. Have you confirmed that you have the same pad type all round? Seems unlikely that you have one really hard pad but when you've ruled out the sensible explanations you have to start looking for the daft ones.Sliders or pins are brand new and plenty of copper slip applied.
Really violent judder from hi speed when braking,, but driving home and using the brakes normally there's no judder at all. Even firm braking there's no judder but load them up and apply them for a number of seconds and the judder will start and progressively get worse.
If the sliders are new that implies they've been replaced and makes me wonder whether you have the correct part fitted correctly. You should be able to confirm full travel by mounting the calipers with the outer pads removed and confirming that the caliper can slide freely inwards far enough for the caliper/rotor gap to come down to the thickness of the pad backplates. I suppose if you had the wrong length pins, or a foreign body stuck in the slider tube, it might not have full travel. You should also be able to confirm that the caliper slides freely but has no backlash and cannot twist.
QBee said:
Each to their own - being the only car on track is my idea of hell.....I like a nice quick caterfield to chase.
I am with Alun on this, I love finding a bit of space on a track as I feel I can really push the car without endangering anyone else. Interesting to hear you are the opposite. I find it stressful having someone behind me as I never know whether they want to play or whether they want to get past. What I do love however is finding someone of similar speed and ability and having a duel. Me and Alun had a fantastic track battle yesterday, really good fun. Last session of the day Trevor embarrassed me with his new R888s, faster than a fast thing going fast through the corners, still had great fun seriously peddling trying to keep up.
Really fun day yesterday and looking forward to the next one. Quite fancy another Snetterton day.
Sliders, aaaah I get you now, sorry I've got 4 pot Brembo Bmw E38 calipers
They are re furnished off EBay Oldphonebloke
Two pins per caliper to hold pads in place which are new.
Yes I can confirm both points regarding lock up which is always on the opposing wheel to the caliper that's not grabbing,
And yes it pulls to the right then sort of evens up.
I'm just waiting for some decent brake grease to arrive before pulling them apart again.
Pads are also new Brembo as are the discs.
I had problems bleeding the caliper compared to the o/s so I'll do it again just to be sure.
The Pistons on the outside side of the caliper don't seem to be pressing as hard,,
I've centred the calipers using 0.5 mm shims so there's very little flex but I can see the disc is not getting any wear on the outside edge, about 15 mm of disc is not really scoring going from outside edge of disc inwards,
They are re furnished off EBay Oldphonebloke
Two pins per caliper to hold pads in place which are new.
Yes I can confirm both points regarding lock up which is always on the opposing wheel to the caliper that's not grabbing,
And yes it pulls to the right then sort of evens up.
I'm just waiting for some decent brake grease to arrive before pulling them apart again.
Pads are also new Brembo as are the discs.
I had problems bleeding the caliper compared to the o/s so I'll do it again just to be sure.
The Pistons on the outside side of the caliper don't seem to be pressing as hard,,
I've centred the calipers using 0.5 mm shims so there's very little flex but I can see the disc is not getting any wear on the outside edge, about 15 mm of disc is not really scoring going from outside edge of disc inwards,
Aha - the penny falls.
If you've replaced the original cheap and nasty sliding calipers with decent four-pots then there are various other ways for them to go wrong. Pistons can stick in bores, pads can jam in calipers, transfer pipes and hoses can get blocked/damaged and prevent fluid flow. All of these problems can come and go depending on temperatures and brake pressures and can't necessarily be seen in normal driving. If you haven't already, then step back and take a good look at how the calipers are mounted to make sure you have got the right size calipers and rotors all mounted to give the right range of piston travels.
If everything else in the braking system is perfect then an air lock anywhere would affect both sides of the caliper equally - worth checking for possible air locks since it's easy to install these such that they don't self-bleed, but if that cures the symptoms then keep looking until you understand why the air lock only affected one side of the caliper.
Just noticed your comment about only getting 15mm contact. Make sure the pads are a rattling fit in the calipers - dress the backplate back if necessary. Even if they seem fine in the garage, they can easily bind when they expand with heat.
If you've replaced the original cheap and nasty sliding calipers with decent four-pots then there are various other ways for them to go wrong. Pistons can stick in bores, pads can jam in calipers, transfer pipes and hoses can get blocked/damaged and prevent fluid flow. All of these problems can come and go depending on temperatures and brake pressures and can't necessarily be seen in normal driving. If you haven't already, then step back and take a good look at how the calipers are mounted to make sure you have got the right size calipers and rotors all mounted to give the right range of piston travels.
If everything else in the braking system is perfect then an air lock anywhere would affect both sides of the caliper equally - worth checking for possible air locks since it's easy to install these such that they don't self-bleed, but if that cures the symptoms then keep looking until you understand why the air lock only affected one side of the caliper.
Just noticed your comment about only getting 15mm contact. Make sure the pads are a rattling fit in the calipers - dress the backplate back if necessary. Even if they seem fine in the garage, they can easily bind when they expand with heat.
Edited by GreenV8S on Monday 9th May 19:58
Matthew Poxon said:
QBee said:
Each to their own - being the only car on track is my idea of hell.....I like a nice quick caterfield to chase.
I am with Alun on this, I love finding a bit of space on a track as I feel I can really push the car without endangering anyone else. Interesting to hear you are the opposite. I find it stressful having someone behind me as I never know whether they want to play or whether they want to get past. What I do love however is finding someone of similar speed and ability and having a duel. Me and Alun had a fantastic track battle yesterday, really good fun. Last session of the day Trevor embarrassed me with his new R888s, faster than a fast thing going fast through the corners, still had great fun seriously peddling trying to keep up.
Really fun day yesterday and looking forward to the next one. Quite fancy another Snetterton day.
Peter, I really appreciate those thoughts mate,, I'm thinking sticking Pistons or similar,,
The fact the pads not really cutting into the disc around the outside edge by as much as 15mm suggests it's twisted or not sitting square on the disc but it is.
Yep I'll go back to basics and start again, I should really get the calipers checked by a brake expert but the offside is perfect and doesn't make noise. I'm going to pull the pad out and push the pedal until the Pistons are clearly exposed just to see there condition.
See Matt, how fast would I be without this headache
Hethel rocks and you feel like your at Silverstone with all the spectators up on the balcony watching.
As Matthew says we had a great duel showing raspect but trying pretty hard,
It was really interesting where Matts car would get the jump on me off turns but I'd then claw it back somewhere else,
It's the braking zones where things get very bad with differing cars, it's very easy to focus to much on the car directly in front and out brake yourself and into the back of someone so staying about 10-15 yards behind eachother works well and doesn't push the guy in front into a mistake. It's not like we are doing laps every week so mistakes will happen if you get to fight fantastic.
I wanna brake late as hell and still stop,, I have much still to do.
The fact the pads not really cutting into the disc around the outside edge by as much as 15mm suggests it's twisted or not sitting square on the disc but it is.
Yep I'll go back to basics and start again, I should really get the calipers checked by a brake expert but the offside is perfect and doesn't make noise. I'm going to pull the pad out and push the pedal until the Pistons are clearly exposed just to see there condition.
See Matt, how fast would I be without this headache
Hethel rocks and you feel like your at Silverstone with all the spectators up on the balcony watching.
As Matthew says we had a great duel showing raspect but trying pretty hard,
It was really interesting where Matts car would get the jump on me off turns but I'd then claw it back somewhere else,
It's the braking zones where things get very bad with differing cars, it's very easy to focus to much on the car directly in front and out brake yourself and into the back of someone so staying about 10-15 yards behind eachother works well and doesn't push the guy in front into a mistake. It's not like we are doing laps every week so mistakes will happen if you get to fight fantastic.
I wanna brake late as hell and still stop,, I have much still to do.
The interesting thing for me was where we were all braking for the chicane at the end of the long straight after the silly tight obstacle.
I never totally left it to the last possible second, on unfamiliar pads and tyres, but everyone else seemed to be having two goes at it....once well before the two cones on the left, and then again nearer the corner.
I was doing that to start with, then reassessed and approached the corner at 120-125 mph, past the two cones, over the darker tarmac, and then braked hard after that.
Speed well sorted in time to turn in without drama and make the second apex tidily.
Try it next time you are there. It works, I promise. You just need to hold your nerve. I made up more ground on other TVRs there than anywhere else.
I never totally left it to the last possible second, on unfamiliar pads and tyres, but everyone else seemed to be having two goes at it....once well before the two cones on the left, and then again nearer the corner.
I was doing that to start with, then reassessed and approached the corner at 120-125 mph, past the two cones, over the darker tarmac, and then braked hard after that.
Speed well sorted in time to turn in without drama and make the second apex tidily.
Try it next time you are there. It works, I promise. You just need to hold your nerve. I made up more ground on other TVRs there than anywhere else.
ClassiChimi said:
One moment of competition,, I'm sat in the que and a Mazda owner chuckled, " it was a matter of time before a Tvr blew up"
I mentioned his £1500 piece of Jap crap,,, then found him on track and ripped through him like a dose of salts.
He got the point
I'm sure the owner of the "£1500 piece of Jap crap" was only joking, but still. I'm sure it made you feel better being faster than him in a car that cost, what, ten times as much with four times the power.I mentioned his £1500 piece of Jap crap,,, then found him on track and ripped through him like a dose of salts.
He got the point
It wasn't me by the way, my "jap crap" cost £1700
Not really mate, finding another drivers issues somehow amusing when it's obviously so saddening was bad form to say the least.
I won't have yesterday ruined by this bulls
t so thanks and bye.
And just so you know I'm not car phobic I like Mx5's and I often spanner for a mate who races one.
But the moment someone slags our cars off and happens to be driving a piece of st,,, don't matter what it is,,, yesterday was A day full of respect, the Mx drivers were very good as we all were and I happily moved over for them as I would any other car.
(Jap crap) its a term I'd rather not use but in the context of the moment and such an insult when I'm standing right next to the man,,, what would you have thought.
In the chaps defence he realised and was apologetic
Good luck with your Masda,, great cars.
I won't have yesterday ruined by this bulls
t so thanks and bye. And just so you know I'm not car phobic I like Mx5's and I often spanner for a mate who races one.
But the moment someone slags our cars off and happens to be driving a piece of s
t,,, don't matter what it is,,, yesterday was A day full of respect, the Mx drivers were very good as we all were and I happily moved over for them as I would any other car. (Jap crap) its a term I'd rather not use but in the context of the moment and such an insult when I'm standing right next to the man,,, what would you have thought.
In the chaps defence he realised and was apologetic
Good luck with your Masda,, great cars.
Edited by ClassiChimi on Tuesday 10th May 00:24
QBee said:
The interesting thing for me was where we were all braking for the chicane at the end of the long straight after the silly tight obstacle.
I never totally left it to the last possible second, on unfamiliar pads and tyres, but everyone else seemed to be having two goes at it....once well before the two cones on the left, and then again nearer the corner.
I was doing that to start with, then reassessed and approached the corner at 120-125 mph, past the two cones, over the darker tarmac, and then braked hard after that.
Speed well sorted in time to turn in without drama and make the second apex tidily.
Try it next time you are there. It works, I promise. You just need to hold your nerve. I made up more ground on other TVRs there than anywhere else.
You spoke of that braking zone Anthony so I observed what you'd said and tried it,,, I never totally left it to the last possible second, on unfamiliar pads and tyres, but everyone else seemed to be having two goes at it....once well before the two cones on the left, and then again nearer the corner.
I was doing that to start with, then reassessed and approached the corner at 120-125 mph, past the two cones, over the darker tarmac, and then braked hard after that.
Speed well sorted in time to turn in without drama and make the second apex tidily.
Try it next time you are there. It works, I promise. You just need to hold your nerve. I made up more ground on other TVRs there than anywhere else.
Brake after the black bit of Tarmac,, couldn't stop and had to go straight on,, haha,, set up was my issue though.
I was also using 5th gear down there so it takes longer to get through the box unsettling the car.
You have good brakes and you know how to use them.
What speed were you at when hitting the brakes, I hit the limiter in 4th and still had many yards to go so I had to use 5th.
I was coming through the tight chicane in third and on the throttle and into 4th early in the long right hander before that straight, for some reason I felt lined up good through that chicane so I carried a fair amount of speed through and that added to my terminal speed before that braking zone.
I'd like to think I can get a better balance on the brakes as the rears are now offering far less as the fronts are dipping the car more and I have the standard pads on the rear,, it's all very good on the road but there at that part of the track they were found out.
Once the vibration started I also did a confidence lift before the black Tarmac,, it's car specific is what I'm trying to say Anthony, your brakes, tyres, suspension set up will dictate some of these things,, yours are obviously very good but as Peter said, the difference between a sorted car and one that's not is stark, mines somewhere in between but then I run 350/300 springs.
I've driven other Tvr's, mines not at that level yet, it's not quite right and I've always had unbalanced brakes which is bugging the feck out of me.
Trev was very fast and his cars a beauty,, really enjoyed his company and hope to see him out there again, he knows his stuff.
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