Hethel lotus test track retro event
Discussion
If I did then maybe I could hang on to some of these hard core track boys Peter.
Obviously no is the answer. I can bolt things on and I read up etc but I'm no brake technician.
Let's get some background here.
Standard brakes,, always would lock front right first. No issues with ride height and geo so put it down to the caliper but it always passed an mot.
Replaced with Brembo brakes about a month ago,
Still I have less braking on the left and now this lack of bite on the one side of the disc on the offending left side.
I have braided hoses too.
I'd be very interested in any advice you can offer Peter and I'll take that into account when I pull them apart again.
Obviously no is the answer. I can bolt things on and I read up etc but I'm no brake technician.
Let's get some background here.
Standard brakes,, always would lock front right first. No issues with ride height and geo so put it down to the caliper but it always passed an mot.
Replaced with Brembo brakes about a month ago,
Still I have less braking on the left and now this lack of bite on the one side of the disc on the offending left side.
I have braided hoses too.
I'd be very interested in any advice you can offer Peter and I'll take that into account when I pull them apart again.
I don't want to derail this thread, just get annoyed when people refer to my car as "crap".
To be fair, he did deserve it after making jokes out of someone else's misfortune.
Had a great time on Sunday, enjoyed sharing track time with the TVRs. The sound in the pit lane and on track was ace.
To be fair, he did deserve it after making jokes out of someone else's misfortune.
Had a great time on Sunday, enjoyed sharing track time with the TVRs. The sound in the pit lane and on track was ace.
To answer your question Alun, I was at max chat in 4th, so about 125 mph. I took the tight one a little slower than you, but I too was changing into 4th just before or during the sweeping right-hander. On that straight I tended to prefer to hang on to fourth rather than go briefly into fifth for exactly the reason you state - two gear changes before the corner can unsettle the car.
I have Racing Red dampers, I think 400 lb springs, the dampers on max tight at the front but at road setting at the rear. 324mm grooved disks, 4pot calipers, Hawk pads on the front, standard 273mm grooved disks, standard one pot calipers and DS2500 pads on the rear. So a stiffer set up than you, and my car doesn't dive much under braking, leaving the rear brakes more effective.
Sort out your brake vibration issue, and possibly change your front springs for something a little stiffer before each track day - I have a set of 500 lb springs in my mancave - you can have them if you want them. It doesn't take a man of your skill set long to change springs I am sure, no special tools required. Let me know - we are heading to the land of hymns and arias this Sunday and can easily meet up with you on the way down or up again to hand them over.
I have Racing Red dampers, I think 400 lb springs, the dampers on max tight at the front but at road setting at the rear. 324mm grooved disks, 4pot calipers, Hawk pads on the front, standard 273mm grooved disks, standard one pot calipers and DS2500 pads on the rear. So a stiffer set up than you, and my car doesn't dive much under braking, leaving the rear brakes more effective.
Sort out your brake vibration issue, and possibly change your front springs for something a little stiffer before each track day - I have a set of 500 lb springs in my mancave - you can have them if you want them. It doesn't take a man of your skill set long to change springs I am sure, no special tools required. Let me know - we are heading to the land of hymns and arias this Sunday and can easily meet up with you on the way down or up again to hand them over.
KernowSid said:
I don't want to derail this thread, just get annoyed when people refer to my car as "crap".
To be fair, he did deserve it after making jokes out of someone else's misfortune.
Had a great time on Sunday, enjoyed sharing track time with the TVRs. The sound in the pit lane and on track was ace.
Sid, in the context of the moment I thought I'd see how he felt when his cars Mark is being insulted in front of another owner with a very sorted Tvr,,,,, he didn't like it but he understood my reverse psychology trick! To be fair, he did deserve it after making jokes out of someone else's misfortune.
Had a great time on Sunday, enjoyed sharing track time with the TVRs. The sound in the pit lane and on track was ace.
As I said my friend, I know many drivers in the Mazda race series, both Mk 1 and the later car series, the cars are great to work on and can be peddled very very fast and I have huge respect for the standard of the front running drivers,,
It was a great day on Sunday despite the tragic loss of the Cerbs engine,, I'd seen the tyre marks as I was out on track when it siezed and it was a shocker,, I was heart broken for Joe, I'd just come back to the holding area and so hearing that pissed me off. Never ever will bad on other track users as we're all in it together.
Sid lets talk about the driving.
Hellishly good wasn't it, sun out, roofs off, we all had a good rattle round,,
Now here a thing Anthony,,
Drag racing relies on getting the jump and that intitial start faze
That chicane and carrying say 5 mph more through the weird thing,, then onto the straight,,, I was in 5th and doing 130pmh at least for that braking zone,, no wonder I had no chance getting through the next chicane braking so late,,
That dab of the brakes you were mentioning, I think it's just to assure yourself the brakes are there,,
Your used to doing track days now and that experience allows you to get on it early, as with others I'm building up,,
I noted your cars performance and its ability to stop sometime ago, very impressive, Matt knows what's needed as his own car and driving clearly shows.
I'll live with my set up as I have to do it in segments based on income, slowly slowly!!!!
Those springs are just outside the window of my valving on the dampers so thanks so much for that offer but they'll just lie around for months now as I have to consider other things in my life,, Galling but true I'm afraid.
I'm going to get drop links springs and tyres that can cope with track work after I've sorted the brakes but that's probably a long term goal, I need to do riggers before long, it's all expensive stuff but I'm so happy with the car I can live with it a bit longer.
I don't think I've mentioned Top gear Tvr, great S as you'd imagine, magic sound,,, I love the darn things.
The S door feels very thin, like your almost outside driving an S fast is big balls stuff and I admire anyone who'll hustle one of them. 
Hellishly good wasn't it, sun out, roofs off, we all had a good rattle round,,
Now here a thing Anthony,,
Drag racing relies on getting the jump and that intitial start faze
That chicane and carrying say 5 mph more through the weird thing,, then onto the straight,,, I was in 5th and doing 130pmh at least for that braking zone,, no wonder I had no chance getting through the next chicane braking so late,,
That dab of the brakes you were mentioning, I think it's just to assure yourself the brakes are there,,
Your used to doing track days now and that experience allows you to get on it early, as with others I'm building up,,
I noted your cars performance and its ability to stop sometime ago, very impressive, Matt knows what's needed as his own car and driving clearly shows.
I'll live with my set up as I have to do it in segments based on income, slowly slowly!!!!
Those springs are just outside the window of my valving on the dampers so thanks so much for that offer but they'll just lie around for months now as I have to consider other things in my life,, Galling but true I'm afraid.
I'm going to get drop links springs and tyres that can cope with track work after I've sorted the brakes but that's probably a long term goal, I need to do riggers before long, it's all expensive stuff but I'm so happy with the car I can live with it a bit longer.
I don't think I've mentioned Top gear Tvr, great S as you'd imagine, magic sound,,, I love the darn things.
The S door feels very thin, like your almost outside
driving an S fast is big balls stuff and I admire anyone who'll hustle one of them. ClassiChimi said:
If I did then maybe I could hang on to some of these hard core track boys Peter.
Obviously no is the answer. I can bolt things on and I read up etc but I'm no brake technician.
Let's get some background here.
Standard brakes,, always would lock front right first. No issues with ride height and geo so put it down to the caliper but it always passed an mot.
Replaced with Brembo brakes about a month ago,
Still I have less braking on the left and now this lack of bite on the one side of the disc on the offending left side.
I have braided hoses too.
I'd be very interested in any advice you can offer Peter and I'll take that into account when I pull them apart again.
I can talk you through it if you're interested, but there's not much point worrying about that until the brakes are basically in good working order. It's curious that you had a similar imbalance with the original brakes. It suggests that either your corner weights are out, and/or you have a hydraulic problem, although I suppose it's just possible you were unlucky enough to have two bad calipers on the same corner. Do you work on the brakes yourself?Obviously no is the answer. I can bolt things on and I read up etc but I'm no brake technician.
Let's get some background here.
Standard brakes,, always would lock front right first. No issues with ride height and geo so put it down to the caliper but it always passed an mot.
Replaced with Brembo brakes about a month ago,
Still I have less braking on the left and now this lack of bite on the one side of the disc on the offending left side.
I have braided hoses too.
I'd be very interested in any advice you can offer Peter and I'll take that into account when I pull them apart again.
Alun
If you had twisted a brake hose when installing the caliper, would that have the effect of introducing the hydraulic issue? Just puzzling.
Brave of you to try the "last of the late brakers" when you knew you had an issue, though there was an escape road, as you said.
I have three sets of springs in my shed. You are welcome to borrow the lot if you want a play. I know one set is 500 lb, the others are lower but I have forgotten what they are. You are welcome to keep any you fancy for free, my friend - they aren't doing a lot sitting my shed, and wouldn't make anything on the Bay of the Rampant Flea.
If you had twisted a brake hose when installing the caliper, would that have the effect of introducing the hydraulic issue? Just puzzling.
Brave of you to try the "last of the late brakers" when you knew you had an issue, though there was an escape road, as you said.
I have three sets of springs in my shed. You are welcome to borrow the lot if you want a play. I know one set is 500 lb, the others are lower but I have forgotten what they are. You are welcome to keep any you fancy for free, my friend - they aren't doing a lot sitting my shed, and wouldn't make anything on the Bay of the Rampant Flea.
ClassiChimi said:
Sid lets talk about the driving.
Hellishly good wasn't it, sun out, roofs off, we all had a good rattle round,,
Was a great day, the last couple of track days I've done have been cold (Feb/Mar), so it was nice to hang out in the car park area for a change.Hellishly good wasn't it, sun out, roofs off, we all had a good rattle round,,
Really found a nice groove and flow this time out, and felt I was driving well. Last time out at Hethel I just couldn't, and was braking too early/late and messing up on the corners.
Only dampener for the day was I managed to crack my windscreen
Brakes,, very careful with my hoses but do suspect them slightly Anthony,,,
Hydraulic issue,, hmmm, they've always bled easily enough,, although I had issues getting fluid out the Brembo nipple on that very side of the caliper which seems a clue to me?
Ok thanks Peter, as this is a thread related to everything performance then when I've got chance to pull the brakes apart I'll post some pics here and see if we can find the problem.
I get even tyre wear on the fronts, my ride height was a bit high on the left before Hethel
So I dropped it and all was level but thats not corner weighted, until the brakes started vibrating on track the lock up was more even over both wheels but the right still locked moments before the left so the ride height levelling did work to a degree but it's the left caliper that's just not working as it should.
I've just inspected my old calipers pads and discs,, it does appear that one discs outside face has not been cut into on the outside edge by the pad quite so much as the other,, so similar situation to the new Brembo,s
This doesn't make much sense as I've centred the caliper to the disc, it's fractions rather than mm out!
I'll inspect the braided line carefully.
Thanks again to anyone who offers advice or ideas, cheers Al
Hydraulic issue,, hmmm, they've always bled easily enough,, although I had issues getting fluid out the Brembo nipple on that very side of the caliper which seems a clue to me?
Ok thanks Peter, as this is a thread related to everything performance then when I've got chance to pull the brakes apart I'll post some pics here and see if we can find the problem.
I get even tyre wear on the fronts, my ride height was a bit high on the left before Hethel
So I dropped it and all was level but thats not corner weighted, until the brakes started vibrating on track the lock up was more even over both wheels but the right still locked moments before the left so the ride height levelling did work to a degree but it's the left caliper that's just not working as it should.
I've just inspected my old calipers pads and discs,, it does appear that one discs outside face has not been cut into on the outside edge by the pad quite so much as the other,, so similar situation to the new Brembo,s
This doesn't make much sense as I've centred the caliper to the disc, it's fractions rather than mm out!
I'll inspect the braided line carefully.
Thanks again to anyone who offers advice or ideas, cheers Al
I better find an online tutorial for these calipers and consider dismantling them and replacing seals etc, although the seals appear to be new and there's no leakage.
Because my old caliper displays a similar disc scoring issue I'm starting to think hydraulic pressure issue but I have to confirm the caliper is not at fault first,,,
One final thought,, my brake pedal was travelling a long way on Sunday and still is longer than before I went. A good inch!
Hydraulic level in the master cylinder has remained at full.
Dot 5.1,,, I'm hard on the brakes and the heat soak on the day was pretty high, I put the extra peddle travel down to hot liquid?
Mmmm it's a science this braking lark.
Because my old caliper displays a similar disc scoring issue I'm starting to think hydraulic pressure issue but I have to confirm the caliper is not at fault first,,,
One final thought,, my brake pedal was travelling a long way on Sunday and still is longer than before I went. A good inch!
Hydraulic level in the master cylinder has remained at full.
Dot 5.1,,, I'm hard on the brakes and the heat soak on the day was pretty high, I put the extra peddle travel down to hot liquid?
Mmmm it's a science this braking lark.
[quote=Top Gear TVR]classic - I've done brake failure before. Just buy new hoses and replace copper pipes (its pretty easy) and get it all replaced. then you know theres nothing wrong [/quote
It's very odd,, but yes I've had the lines off before to paint the bottom chassis rails, actually I didn't dis connect them but I know the route well.
It would have to take some restriction to stop the force of hydraulic pressure I'd assume,,,
Anyone got any idea how much actual pressure is applied apon the disc,, ?
I'll inspect them carefully AGAIN, bleed them, test and report back.
And before I forget to mention it,,, I did have low fluid levels in the master cylinder after removing the brakes for chassis painting,, I re filled it and bled the system which took ten minutes,,, but I could have an air lock I suppose?!!!!??
Cheers Alun
It's very odd,, but yes I've had the lines off before to paint the bottom chassis rails, actually I didn't dis connect them but I know the route well.
It would have to take some restriction to stop the force of hydraulic pressure I'd assume,,,
Anyone got any idea how much actual pressure is applied apon the disc,, ?
I'll inspect them carefully AGAIN, bleed them, test and report back.
And before I forget to mention it,,, I did have low fluid levels in the master cylinder after removing the brakes for chassis painting,, I re filled it and bled the system which took ten minutes,,, but I could have an air lock I suppose?!!!!??
Cheers Alun
Edited by ClassiChimi on Tuesday 10th May 15:00
Brake fluid that has been cooked can go spongy, but any problem sufficient to cause uneven pad pressure is very serious (and IMO the sort of safety critical issue that should limit the car to minimal very cautious driving until resolved) and I don't think there's any point looking for more subtle problems until this major glaring problem has been resolved.
The problem could well be in the components you've replaced but equally could be a pre-existing problem elsewhere in the system.
Given the complex symptoms you've described, I think it would be sensible to take the pads out and replace with thinner spacers, test the calipers to ensure all four pistons moving freely on both sides (be careful not to pop them right out), confirm the whole system is holding pressure without any leaks or bulging hoses, bleed carefully (may need to take the calipers off the car to chase the air out) and confirm that both sides of both calipers flow freely and equally when you apply heavy braking pressure and then crack the top bleed nipple or union. Use a brake bleed kit or equivalent to ensure you don't accidentally let air back in while bleeding.
Maybe worth posting a close-up of the calipers on both sides in case the transfer pipe has been installed in the wrong orientation? The calipers would normally be handed and won't bleed well if you fit one upside down i.e. on the wrong side.
The problem could well be in the components you've replaced but equally could be a pre-existing problem elsewhere in the system.
Given the complex symptoms you've described, I think it would be sensible to take the pads out and replace with thinner spacers, test the calipers to ensure all four pistons moving freely on both sides (be careful not to pop them right out), confirm the whole system is holding pressure without any leaks or bulging hoses, bleed carefully (may need to take the calipers off the car to chase the air out) and confirm that both sides of both calipers flow freely and equally when you apply heavy braking pressure and then crack the top bleed nipple or union. Use a brake bleed kit or equivalent to ensure you don't accidentally let air back in while bleeding.
Maybe worth posting a close-up of the calipers on both sides in case the transfer pipe has been installed in the wrong orientation? The calipers would normally be handed and won't bleed well if you fit one upside down i.e. on the wrong side.
Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 10th May 15:13
KernowSid said:
I thought there was only one white MX5 there, which was mine. But I havent got BBS wheels, mine are Mazdaspeed MS01's, and I wasnt hugely quick around track!
Not sure then. Shame I did't have the camera running as I could have checked back through the footage. I seem to remember a black MX5 that let me past and then we had a good battle for a few laps with him gaining ground through the corners and then me disappearing on the straights. I also seem to remember a white MX5 although I might be mistaken which caught me up so I let it past, it was fast on the straights and corners so I assumed it was quite heavily modified in the engine department.I annoyed a turbo'd MX5 owner who after I followed him around for a few laps and he couldn't lose me, asked what I had done to the engine, and I said nothing but a stainless exhaust and a panel filter
The owner of the black MX5 is a grasstrack racer. His son was the chef cooking in the marquee.
The owner of the black MX5 is a grasstrack racer. His son was the chef cooking in the marquee.
Matthew Poxon said:
I also seem to remember a white MX5 although I might be mistaken which caught me up so I let it past, it was fast on the straights and corners so I assumed it was quite heavily modified in the engine department.
I let him through in the first session we were on track as well, nicely driven car I had a problem with my brakes pulling to the left and one wheel locking up before the other, it turned out to be the brake hoses were old and one side was expanding on braking causing an imbalance, they fitted new hoses and problem solved, this may not be your problem as I think mine were pretty bad the garage couldn't understand how it hadn't been picked up when it had it's mot, still might be worth a try.
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