Message from Southways - please read

[Kitchski]

(Mods - not an advert, please don't remove)

Hi all,

If you had, or own a car that once had a chassis refurbishment (or renewed fuel lines alone) carried out by us, please read the attached link and get in touch. There's a chance your car is affected, and we want to check it out as soon as possible:

Recall Notice

We don't think there's a chance many cars will be, due to the fact we purchase in small quantities, so if there has been a dodgy batch of hose, we didn't buy much of it to start with.

Not a post I wanted to make, and rest assured we're thoroughly pissed-off that something we had no control over is going to be something that invariably harms us as a business. And we're a very small business.

Please read the link, get in touch if you think you're affected and let us check it out before you go bombing around for the summer. If your car is affected, we'll re-pipe it as a warranty job, regardless of mileage covered or time elapsed since the refurbishment. No cost to you.

Thanks

Rich

[Top Gear TVR]

hi - have you ever worked on K331 NES?

[Kitchski]

Top Gear TVR said:

hi - have you ever worked on K331 NES?

Nope, never had that one through the door.

But seriously - check the hoses anyway!

[GreenV8S]

I have no connection with your business, but if I was a customer then I would be very reassured by your response.

If it's any consolation, I had a batch of hose from Pirtek that was supposed to be unleaded-friendly but started to degrade within 18 months - I suspect you're far from the only people to see the problem.

[Kitchski]

GreenV8S said:

I have no connection with your business, but if I was a customer then I would be very reassured by your response.

If it's any consolation, I had a batch of hose from Pirtek that was supposed to be unleaded-friendly but started to degrade within 18 months - I suspect you're far from the only people to see the problem.

Cheers. I think it's likely lots of people are going to be affected. We wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for the fact we tend to ask people to bring cars back in 500miles or so after we've done a refurb on a chassis, just to allow for any nuts or bolts that need nipping up, hose clips that have seated etc. Had a Griffith in last week (hoses in the photo were from it) and was pretty shocked to see the state of them. It's the people who've used it simply for a repair that worry me, as they have no reason to suspect it's anything other than a long-term solution.

I'm passing everything we know/will learn over to the Practical Classics team. Hopefully if nothing else, it will get more people to check their own cars if they make a bit of noise about it.

[Scoobimax]

GreenV8S said:

I have no connection with your business, but if I was a customer then I would be very reassured by your response.

Ditto - sign of a quality and conscientious company.

I doubt you've worked on K712 BWO but worth just checking.

Cheers,

Max

[Kitchski]

Scoobimax said:

Ditto - sign of a quality and conscientious company.

I doubt you've worked on K712 BWO but worth just checking.

Cheers,

Max

Cheers Max!

Nope, haven't had the plesure on your latest steed. Check your lines though, especially as it hasn't been used much!

[glenrobbo]

Well done Richard for your prompt action and issuing the warning to us all on here and elsewhere. Unfortunate that you should bear the costs for circumstances not of your doing.

Surely some culpability lies at the door of the EEC regulators for dictating that this dreadful corrosive bio-ethanol should be added to our modern fuels.
Does any company supply unleaded petrol without the awful stuff added to it?
In France, they are adding increasing percentages to the mix.

[v8s4me]

glenrobbo said:

...In France, they are adding increasing percentages to the mix.

You see? You see? Yet another good reason not to go there!

[Big Al.]

Kitchski said:

(Mods - not an advert, please don't remove)

[greymrj]

Well done for being so straightforward about it.

Looks like you are drawing attention to a wider issue as well. I changed the injection filter on mine last week and noticed that the fuel pipe is starting to crack. I changed it only a couple of years ago with good quality and appropriately marked pipe supplied by Demon Tweeks.I sincerely hope it doesnt affect the plastic injection pipes as well.

[Oldred_V8S]

glenrobbo said:

Well done Richard for your prompt action and issuing the warning to us all on here and elsewhere. Unfortunate that you should bear the costs for circumstances not of your doing.

Surely some culpability lies at the door of the EEC regulators for dictating that this dreadful corrosive bio-ethanol should be added to our modern fuels.
Does any company supply unleaded petrol without the awful stuff added to it?
.

One of my other interests is classic motorcycles; the VMCC club magazine has letters from members in it almost every month complaining about the effect ethanol has been having on components.

Apparently there is a grade of fuel from one of the major manufacturers that currently does not have ethanol in it, but for the life of me I cannot recall which one, but to confuse matters, it varied by regions of the UK.

A mark of a good company is not whether they have issues or not, (and this is not an issue of Southways making), but how they handle things when they do go wrong, and thumbs-up to Southways on their handling of this. Richard showed me the Grif pipe on Saturday and to think it was not that old, it looked like it had been on the car for years, there were so many splits in it. I really feel for the Southways team, this recall is not of their making, yet they are bearing the cost to put it right.

Check your fuel lines regularly guys, whether new or old; this stuff is evil and it is only going to get worse.

[TurboTony]

Richard. Thank you so much for the information. Having been involved in many vehicle recalls I know how involved the process can be. At least you will be talking again to your customers and they will appreciate your concern.

I will check my fuel lines more closely and we will do same on Niiiges' S4.

[Le TVR]

Feel very sorry for Rich that he has been left to pick up this fall-out from what is obviously defective hose. My one has about ten times the cracking compared to the photo in the notice and it had already started to weep fuel in less than 1000km. It may be related to the ethanol content of modern fuels which can be up to 5% on fuel that is not marked as E something! I suspect that the certification of hoses needs looking at? Either that or we have another case of Chinese counterfeit approval marks.....

Rich has been exemplary throughout and I am very happy that it was his company that did all the restoration of my car.
Not your fault Rich but well done for how you are dealing with it

[Kitchski]

Le TVR said:

Feel very sorry for Rich that he has been left to pick up this fall-out from what is obviously defective hose. My one has about ten times the cracking compared to the photo in the notice and it had already started to weep fuel in less than 1000km. It may be related to the ethanol content of modern fuels which can be up to 5% on fuel that is not marked as E something! I suspect that the certification of hoses needs looking at? Either that or we have another case of Chinese counterfeit approval marks.....

Rich has been exemplary throughout and I am very happy that it was his company that did all the restoration of my car.
Not your fault Rich but well done for how you are dealing with it

Thanks Pete

[gifdy]

Thanks for putting this warning out on a public forum - you could have restricted the circulation to only your customers so appreciate your openness. I'll be checking mine this weekend.

[Kitchski]

gifdy said:

Thanks for putting this warning out on a public forum - you could have restricted the circulation to only your customers so appreciate your openness. I'll be checking mine this weekend.

The main reason for this was to try and reach the people we don't have contact details for. That includes customers from before our IT system change, and customers who've sold their cars on (amazingly, people do this after shelling out on making the chassis mint!)

I'm also in talks with Practical Classic magazine, and I'm hoping they'll run a feature on ethanol and fuel lines in general.

[TurboTony]

Richard. Is it wise to change to a hose suitable for ethanol? I know that R9 is designed to be OK but would it be worth going to a higher spec? As an example here is one but other suppliers are on the web:

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/ethanol-proo...


although I cannot remember if our hose is 8mm! Has any one experienced any problems with the large diameter pipe from the tank?

There are some interesting articles about ethanol, although there is a focus on carburettors which I guess would rule out that double pumper Holley conversion!!!!

This is a very long article but it does make the point that some lower quality hoses had been re- marked as R9 so purchase from a reputable supplier:

http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm

[Kitchski]

TurboTony said:

Richard. Is it wise to change to a hose suitable for ethanol? I know that R9 is designed to be OK but would it be worth going to a higher spec? As an example here is one but other suppliers are on the web:

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/ethanol-proo...


although I cannot remember if our hose is 8mm! Has any one experienced any problems with the large diameter pipe from the tank?

There are some interesting articles about ethanol, although there is a focus on carburettors which I guess would rule out that double pumper Holley conversion!!!!

This is a very long article but it does make the point that some lower quality hoses had been re- marked as R9 so purchase from a reputable supplier:

http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm

Hi Tony, to my knowledge, DIN 73379-3D equates to SAE J30R9 anyway. If you read a bit further on in that Volksbolts link, you'll see the permittivity ratings place R9 at the top. R12 is also good, although much less commonly found, and the higher number doesn't always mean it's better for the job, as they have different operating parameters. One of them is designed to be submerged, for example, so suitable as a pick-up hose in a tank. R9 even outperforms A1-marine hose (though A1 is required for the supply hose from tank to pump as it's currently the best product available in that size).
J30R9 is, to my knowledge, the best spec we could use on our cars. For reference, the fuel hose I.D was originally listed in imperial measurements, and converted to metric comes out at 7.6mm. Sometimes it's labelled as 8mm, but I believe this is just a case of rounding up the sizes (pump supply hose on an S is 16mm.....or 15.7mm to be exact - something like that).

The Volksbolts article is well worth a read for everybody though. It's the best article I've found so far.

[greymrj]

Hmmmm, looks like I need to read it up a bit, the hose from accumulator to injector filter appears to be marked 'SYTEC IHOO' 6.0x12.0 NBR/CR DIN 73379-24. ('-' is unclear) It is certainly cracking, at least near the filter where it is more exposed.