V8S - the dreaded rot
Discussion
So, having POR15'd my chassis from below a few years ago and finding no issues despite much poking, it seems the rot has begun despite an MOT pass a couple of weeks ago.
Outriggers at the front need replacement.
The options seem to be:
- new outriggers = £1500
- cut out and replace rot = £1000
- try to DIY it with a partial body lift (a la TVRgit) and cut out and replace
- SORN car and put away for a couple of years until I can afford to pay
- SORN car and then do a full chassis refurb
- just go the whole hog in 3 year's time with new chassis
My question is what's the best road to go down?
My problems are a SEVERE lack of cash due to ongoing house renovation, and fairly amateur practical skills. I've never fabricated with metal, nor welded.
My strength is lots and lots of tools, a garage and a relative who can weld, though he's retired and mucking about under cars isn't his happy place.
Reading TVRgit's body lift guide, mentioning all the measuring and fabricating, made me scratch my head and write myself off. Could I ever do that??? Would it be a complete balls up?
It's so difficult to see from someone's words how much unwritten experience they have. The internet is rife with people describing 'easy' tasks that are made easy because they forget to say they've been doing it for 20 years. Simply is an infuriatingly over-used word.
Outriggers at the front need replacement.
The options seem to be:
- new outriggers = £1500
- cut out and replace rot = £1000
- try to DIY it with a partial body lift (a la TVRgit) and cut out and replace
- SORN car and put away for a couple of years until I can afford to pay
- SORN car and then do a full chassis refurb
- just go the whole hog in 3 year's time with new chassis
My question is what's the best road to go down?
My problems are a SEVERE lack of cash due to ongoing house renovation, and fairly amateur practical skills. I've never fabricated with metal, nor welded.
My strength is lots and lots of tools, a garage and a relative who can weld, though he's retired and mucking about under cars isn't his happy place.
Reading TVRgit's body lift guide, mentioning all the measuring and fabricating, made me scratch my head and write myself off. Could I ever do that??? Would it be a complete balls up?
It's so difficult to see from someone's words how much unwritten experience they have. The internet is rife with people describing 'easy' tasks that are made easy because they forget to say they've been doing it for 20 years. Simply is an infuriatingly over-used word.
V8S said:
Reading TVRgit's body lift guide, mentioning all the measuring and fabricating, made me scratch my head and write myself off. Could I ever do that??? Would it be a complete balls up?
It's so difficult to see from someone's words how much unwritten experience they have. The internet is rife with people describing 'easy' tasks that are made easy because they forget to say they've been doing it for 20 years. Simply is an infuriatingly over-used word.
Sorry to hear about your chassis woes.It's so difficult to see from someone's words how much unwritten experience they have. The internet is rife with people describing 'easy' tasks that are made easy because they forget to say they've been doing it for 20 years. Simply is an infuriatingly over-used word.
Let me explain a couple of things, and I hope that it helps.
First, it's true that I have been fiddling around with cars since I was very young (in fact I started to help my dad fix his lorries while I was still at primary school, and that was nearly 50 years ago). I am no expert though - it's very strictly a hobby, and very part-time at that. Over the years, I have accumulated a huge range of tools, which helps.
All of that helped in getting the body off, and putting it back. I had never done that before though.
I also had very limited experience at welding, mainly with an old cheap welder with two settings that either melted everything into a blob, or didn't tack anything to anything. I bought a proper MIG just for the chassis job, and a load of steel to practice on (including some rusty bits because that's very different). The important thing is to recognise a good weld from a crap one.
The main benefit though, was that I had the help of my friend Dave, who had more welding experience and wasn't as timid as me with the angle grinder, chopping the rusty bits out. It took a while, but I managed to make and cut bits and get it all back together, with strengthening sections inside the joins (so that they don't look sleeved on the outside).
I had never done this before, but if you follow the old maxim of "measure 8 times, cut once" and the TVR motto of "don't assume that the left side is the reverse of the right side"., it all goes back together - although it's still a relief when it actually does!
The difference in cost is massive - my repair took 6 weeks, faffing around at weekends and the odd evening, and cost me less than £100, and 3/4 of that was for the paint and preparation materials. The steel cost me the grand total of £12 from my local metal merchant. At that price, I could afford to invest in a decent welder, which I still have, and have used for other jobs.
I wasn't confident that I could do it, but I understand what you say - I was at least confident enough that I would be able to rescue any cock-up I made (short of setting the car or myself on fire).
Do you know anybody reliable who could help, or at least be there for advice / second opinion?
I was in a similar position with my old VW. I found a whole lot of rot in one corner and had a go myself. As long as you're patient and take your time, it's not too bad. The hardest bit was getting up enough courage to keep cutting and grinding until I got to good metal.
I also found a flap wheel & grinder could hide a lot of dodgy looking welds !
Where in the SW are you ? You can borrow my MIG if you want to have a practice. Get some tubing ean see how you get on before committing to the outriggers ?
I also found a flap wheel & grinder could hide a lot of dodgy looking welds !
Where in the SW are you ? You can borrow my MIG if you want to have a practice. Get some tubing ean see how you get on before committing to the outriggers ?
The majority of the cost is labour, you will save a lot if you can do the donkey work yourself and get someone with the skills to either teach you or do the welding for you. In the mean time while your thinking about it, you could start by locating all the body to chassis bolts one by one and freeing them up. When I did my partial lift over a weekend, I had over the previous few weeks removed all the body / chassis bolts and replaced them with stainless. It actually took longer for the paint to dry than the lift and repairs.
Another one thinking it would be a good idea to give it a go yourself. A full body off is preferable but doesn't half cost!!! This would be a great way to keep the car on the road wile also getting to know it a bit better. I had no experience before I did mine. Everyone here was a great help during the process. Doing it yourself with just a partial lift will keep her on the road for many a year to come before finally needing more thorough work. Even if it's not perfect, and a lot of the so called professional jobs arnt, you'll know you did it while saving the pennies and being able to enjoy it.
The Big G said:
Even if it's not perfect, and a lot of the so called professional jobs arnt, you'll know you did it while saving the pennies and being able to enjoy it.
This was another big factor - I've gone to "professionals" or "specialists" before and been astounded at how poor some of their work is. I've seen "professionals" or "specialists" give advice that is blatantly incorrect. It's not their car. They don't care. You do, you'll take your time and get it right.(I've been to other professionals whose standards are exceptional - but how do you know what you're going to get?)
You might not be as good as the best, but you'll be better than most. You have to factor that in.
Hi...
In the last couple of weeks I have just reunited my S3 restored chassis with its body.
Again, like some of the other replies, I did all of the work myself. And again, only being a hobbyist,
with oily fingers & tools. My chassis reqd total outrigger replacement plus 'other' areas needed fixing too.
Which as a 'Billy no mates' took me around 6 months attacking it most spare moments around my full time job.
Its dirty, its messy, it takes time, & a lot of thinking, measuring, cutting, & fabricating, & bloomin cold in the winter in my single car size modern garage.!! At least I can Mig weld with my eyes closed, now I've finished - typical !!
So its not just about the diy £££ saving-V- Pro cost, you must think about where to do it, how to do it, & how long its going to take. Especially as you appear to have 'other' commitments.... And you don't want to get upsetting those who must be obeyed ! Not too much anyway. And you WILL hit the 'brick wall' in terms of lack of progress/enthusiasm.
Oh, my chassis resto also included total refurb or the brakes, suspension & steering. So it was great (a real boost in motivation) to see some shiny parts go back onto the fresh painted chassis... Even the neighbours came over to see it exit the garage. In my case I'm now onto some brain teasing work, as I am fitting a AJ30 engine (now installed). plus the usual resto required jobs. Roll on Spring 2017
(TIP... Buy yourself a laser measure, its invaluable for getting the chassis just right).
TerryB.
In the last couple of weeks I have just reunited my S3 restored chassis with its body.
Again, like some of the other replies, I did all of the work myself. And again, only being a hobbyist,
with oily fingers & tools. My chassis reqd total outrigger replacement plus 'other' areas needed fixing too.
Which as a 'Billy no mates' took me around 6 months attacking it most spare moments around my full time job.
Its dirty, its messy, it takes time, & a lot of thinking, measuring, cutting, & fabricating, & bloomin cold in the winter in my single car size modern garage.!! At least I can Mig weld with my eyes closed, now I've finished - typical !!
So its not just about the diy £££ saving-V- Pro cost, you must think about where to do it, how to do it, & how long its going to take. Especially as you appear to have 'other' commitments.... And you don't want to get upsetting those who must be obeyed ! Not too much anyway. And you WILL hit the 'brick wall' in terms of lack of progress/enthusiasm.
Oh, my chassis resto also included total refurb or the brakes, suspension & steering. So it was great (a real boost in motivation) to see some shiny parts go back onto the fresh painted chassis... Even the neighbours came over to see it exit the garage. In my case I'm now onto some brain teasing work, as I am fitting a AJ30 engine (now installed). plus the usual resto required jobs. Roll on Spring 2017
(TIP... Buy yourself a laser measure, its invaluable for getting the chassis just right).TerryB.
I'm another who had a go without previous knowledge!
As said - the steel is cheap
I had to cut off ALL the mounting fixings as too rusty to undo (used a 4" angle grinder) and a drill with new (sharp)drills
Although I did a full body off itwould be easyish lifting the body 4".
There are enough fotos of rotten chassis on this site to be able to see where the normal areas of rot should be, I used a small chissel and hammer to check the areas.
As long as the rust is on the F part of the outriggers (not the rear tube which locates the rear trailing arm - also check these trailing arms) then the work should be easy to sort out. I would say if there is rot to the trailing arm or locating tube then lower the body back on and save up for someone to do the work.
As said - the steel is cheap
I had to cut off ALL the mounting fixings as too rusty to undo (used a 4" angle grinder) and a drill with new (sharp)drills
Although I did a full body off itwould be easyish lifting the body 4".
There are enough fotos of rotten chassis on this site to be able to see where the normal areas of rot should be, I used a small chissel and hammer to check the areas.
As long as the rust is on the F part of the outriggers (not the rear tube which locates the rear trailing arm - also check these trailing arms) then the work should be easy to sort out. I would say if there is rot to the trailing arm or locating tube then lower the body back on and save up for someone to do the work.
magpies said:
As long as the rust is on the F part of the outriggers (not the rear tube which locates the rear trailing arm - also check these trailing arms) then the work should be easy to sort out. I would say if there is rot to the trailing arm or locating tube then lower the body back on and save up for someone to do the work.
This is definitely true, the bar that has the trailing arm mounts is a thicker gauge and really quite complex to remove. It's one of the first pieces fitted run everything added on afterwards. It also needs to be accurate as it affects suspension geometry. Mine was holed through this on both sides hidden away in the trailing arm mounts and only really became totally visable after sand blasting. I've seen mobile blasting kits which look far easier than rubbing down with a wire brush on a grinder. Will get into all the awkward places and will provide a far better surface for painting too. Blue 30 said:
Hi...
In the last couple of weeks I have just reunited my S3 restored chassis with its body.
Again, like some of the other replies, I did all of the work myself. And again, only being a hobbyist,
with oily fingers & tools. My chassis reqd total outrigger replacement plus 'other' areas needed fixing too.
Which as a 'Billy no mates' took me around 6 months attacking it most spare moments around my full time job.
Its dirty, its messy, it takes time, & a lot of thinking, measuring, cutting, & fabricating, & bloomin cold in the winter in my single car size modern garage.!! At least I can Mig weld with my eyes closed, now I've finished - typical !!
So its not just about the diy £££ saving-V- Pro cost, you must think about where to do it, how to do it, & how long its going to take. Especially as you appear to have 'other' commitments.... And you don't want to get upsetting those who must be obeyed ! Not too much anyway. And you WILL hit the 'brick wall' in terms of lack of progress/enthusiasm.
Oh, my chassis resto also included total refurb or the brakes, suspension & steering. So it was great (a real boost in motivation) to see some shiny parts go back onto the fresh painted chassis... Even the neighbours came over to see it exit the garage. In my case I'm now onto some brain teasing work, as I am fitting a AJ30 engine (now installed). plus the usual resto required jobs. Roll on Spring 2017 (TIP... Buy yourself a laser measure, its invaluable for getting the chassis just right).
TerryB.
Without wanting thread hijack, it's good to hear the engine and body are on.. Sorry I couldn't be more help...In the last couple of weeks I have just reunited my S3 restored chassis with its body.
Again, like some of the other replies, I did all of the work myself. And again, only being a hobbyist,
with oily fingers & tools. My chassis reqd total outrigger replacement plus 'other' areas needed fixing too.
Which as a 'Billy no mates' took me around 6 months attacking it most spare moments around my full time job.
Its dirty, its messy, it takes time, & a lot of thinking, measuring, cutting, & fabricating, & bloomin cold in the winter in my single car size modern garage.!! At least I can Mig weld with my eyes closed, now I've finished - typical !!
So its not just about the diy £££ saving-V- Pro cost, you must think about where to do it, how to do it, & how long its going to take. Especially as you appear to have 'other' commitments.... And you don't want to get upsetting those who must be obeyed ! Not too much anyway. And you WILL hit the 'brick wall' in terms of lack of progress/enthusiasm.
Oh, my chassis resto also included total refurb or the brakes, suspension & steering. So it was great (a real boost in motivation) to see some shiny parts go back onto the fresh painted chassis... Even the neighbours came over to see it exit the garage. In my case I'm now onto some brain teasing work, as I am fitting a AJ30 engine (now installed). plus the usual resto required jobs. Roll on Spring 2017
(TIP... Buy yourself a laser measure, its invaluable for getting the chassis just right).TerryB.
Mine is going for paint in a couple of weeks.
Regarding the posters chassis, assusing it's not too bad you can do yourself, mine was really bad and need to go on a chassis jig to get the rear suspension correctly aligned..
Good luck
Damian S3 Duratec
The Big G said:
This is definitely true, the bar that has the trailing arm mounts is a thicker gauge and really quite complex to remove. It's one of the first pieces fitted run everything added on afterwards. It also needs to be accurate as it affects suspension geometry. Mine was holed through this on both sides hidden away in the trailing arm mounts and only really became totally visable after sand blasting. I've seen mobile blasting kits which look far easier than rubbing down with a wire brush on a grinder. Will get into all the awkward places and will provide a far better surface for painting too.
Don't be totally put off if you find rear tube rot it can be done, I did both sides, but it may depend on where any rot is actually situated. Have a good poke around and make your decision accordingly. Also when doing mine I did one rust area at a time and left parts of existing tubes in place for reference before final chop. Also in the picture is the first stage of a sleeved joint if you use this method it keeps everything in line and leaves you to concentrate on getting the lengths correct ![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/LhVmXGuY.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/RVwySVSz" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/RVwySVSz.jpg)
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