Trying to keep H.M.S. Morale afloat!
Discussion
Alan Whitaker said:
Hi Richard
Sounds like you will have a nice car when done, On the Composite cam gear (fibre gear), I don't like them at all, I used to make my own gears (when I had the machines to do it), I always made Steel straight cut ones with a Vernier adjustment for accurate cam timing, I am sure these will be available from someone.
I do think Mike's idea is good if you have done all the painting but would go for a flange type fixing if it was a bare chassis.
Alan
I'm putting faith in the fibre Sounds like you will have a nice car when done, On the Composite cam gear (fibre gear), I don't like them at all, I used to make my own gears (when I had the machines to do it), I always made Steel straight cut ones with a Vernier adjustment for accurate cam timing, I am sure these will be available from someone.
I do think Mike's idea is good if you have done all the painting but would go for a flange type fixing if it was a bare chassis.
Alan
In fairness, from the research I've done (and I've done A LOT) nobody has ever actually had a fibre gear failure on a Cologne. Essex engine, yes. Really common, but not on the Cologne. In fact the only person who's ever told me they've seen a failure themselves, was the chap who sold it to me....Boosted LS1 said:
OP have you got hydraulic lifters? If so I'll assume you checked the preloads. You only set them the one time, some people go round the engine several times which buggers everything up especially the clearances.
No, mechanical lifters on the 2.8. We do quite a lot of cam changes on the RV8s, and the joys of setting pre-loads Alan Whitaker said:
I do think Mike's idea is good if you have done all the painting
Still a bit of "touching up" required with mine. Maybe not clear on that photo but those are threaded plates welded to the insides of the chassis rails.... no anti crush tubes and no nuts.removeable cross member (only square coz that's all I had to hand) was made slightly short then shims used at one end to get "nice fit"
Going back to the noise issue I'd definitely go back to standard cam gear and, yes, Piper 270 cam is noisey!
phillpot said:
Going back to the noise issue I'd definitely go back to standard cam gear and, yes, Piper 270 cam is noisey!
You're the only person who's told me (other than the chap at Tickover) that the 270 is noisey! Is that a certainty, based on experience? Only reason for asking is I was planning to try leaving the cam in there, and just changing the gears.Kitchski said:
Is that a certainty, based on experience?
Yes, albeit in a 2.9.Kitchski said:
I've heard from other people who believe one or the other can cause the horrible noise.
Not mentioned it earlier because I took it from this quote that others, not just Tickover, had mentioned cam can be noisey?what valve clearances are you using? think Piper recommend 0.018" inlet and 0.020" exhaust(which is 2 thou more than standard)
I've pulled mine down to 14/16 in an attempt to hush it up a bit.
Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 5th July 13:10
I'm putting faith in the fibre laugh In fairness, from the research I've done (and I've done A LOT) nobody has ever actually had a fibre gear failure on a Cologne. Essex engine, yes. Really common, but not on the Cologne. In fact the only person who's ever told me they've seen a failure themselves, was the chap who sold it to me....
Some time ago I put the word out, through PH and elsewhere through the motor trade, to see how common failures on the Cologne cam gears were. That included the commercial trade who had experience of Colognes in vans. Couple of instances of fibre gears being damaged by metal in damaged or poorly maintained engines, but not one instance of a Cologne fibre gear failure of the type that plagued older Essex engines.
Some time ago I put the word out, through PH and elsewhere through the motor trade, to see how common failures on the Cologne cam gears were. That included the commercial trade who had experience of Colognes in vans. Couple of instances of fibre gears being damaged by metal in damaged or poorly maintained engines, but not one instance of a Cologne fibre gear failure of the type that plagued older Essex engines.
phillpot said:
Not mentioned it earlier because I took it from this quote that others, not just Tickover, had mentioned cam can be noisey?
what valve clearances are you using? think Piper recommend 0.018" inlet and 0.020" exhaust(which is 2 thou more than standard)
I've pulled mine down to 14/16 in an attempt to hush it up a bit.
Balls. what valve clearances are you using? think Piper recommend 0.018" inlet and 0.020" exhaust(which is 2 thou more than standard)
I've pulled mine down to 14/16 in an attempt to hush it up a bit.
To change the cam as well makes it an even bigger job. I might leave it in there, hook it all back up enough to test it and if the noise remains continue to swap the cam over for a used standard one I have. I can't use my original as it was re-profiled to make the BP270.
Was using standard clearances, as advised by Piper. Because it was a regrind, the BCD changed pretty dramatically, so I had to go round them all anyway. Have done them about 4 times since hoping that I've made a massive mistake somewhere!
Kitchski said:
I can't use my original as it was re-profiled to make the BP270.
That was my next question, re-grind or the more expensive ground from a blank?Wonder if there is any difference, whether they can get a better profile, less aggressive ramp angles etc. from a blank?
Kitchski said:
the BCD changed pretty dramatically,
The what?Well, I went and did it
Had a think about designs, and I think though TVRees' layout is the best structurally, it's not possible to do a neat job of it with the engine in-situ.
So, I went this way:
50x50 square box section, exactly the same as the brace a little further in front of it, then slotted into an eyelet either end. Got the idea from the V8S and Chimaera/Griffith chassis', which use a similar design on the removable brace in front of the wishbone. On those, there are two M10 bolts either end, positioned on a diagonal plane which reduces the chances of torsional twist. I considered this, but the brace under the engine on an S doesn't deal with torsional stress - it's just a brace to keep the chassis rails tied together (and to be quite honest, when I cut it out the chassis didn't flinch! Normally, ANY section of TVR chassis you cut out results in a quiet 'twang' if you don't brace it!)
So, it'll be one fat 7/16 bolt either end and the brace will press in at the ends to keep things square. It hurt to cut my mint chassis, but I had to do it in order to remove the lower crank gear, and now I have I'm happy I made the right choice. it also hurt to weld it, literally - galvanised chassis + welder= hot lumps of molten metal up your sleeves
Gears are now swapped, sump's back on so I've decided to rig it all back up and see if the noise goes just by changing the cam gear. If it doesn't, I'll change the cam and curse the bloody thing some more, and only soften the blow slightly by flogging the alloy gear set (which I'll then know is ok and not the cause of the noise) and continue to replace the cam (if that doesn't cure it, there will be an S-shaped bonfire in Fareham that night).
if the noise does go, I'll dance around in the yard to the Art Of Noise and throw the alloy gear kit into the nearest hedge. Then I'll tell Piper what I think of their camshaft before rebuilding the car and enjoying what's left of the summer.
Time will tell....
Had a think about designs, and I think though TVRees' layout is the best structurally, it's not possible to do a neat job of it with the engine in-situ.
So, I went this way:
50x50 square box section, exactly the same as the brace a little further in front of it, then slotted into an eyelet either end. Got the idea from the V8S and Chimaera/Griffith chassis', which use a similar design on the removable brace in front of the wishbone. On those, there are two M10 bolts either end, positioned on a diagonal plane which reduces the chances of torsional twist. I considered this, but the brace under the engine on an S doesn't deal with torsional stress - it's just a brace to keep the chassis rails tied together (and to be quite honest, when I cut it out the chassis didn't flinch! Normally, ANY section of TVR chassis you cut out results in a quiet 'twang' if you don't brace it!)
So, it'll be one fat 7/16 bolt either end and the brace will press in at the ends to keep things square. It hurt to cut my mint chassis, but I had to do it in order to remove the lower crank gear, and now I have I'm happy I made the right choice. it also hurt to weld it, literally - galvanised chassis + welder= hot lumps of molten metal up your sleeves
Gears are now swapped, sump's back on so I've decided to rig it all back up and see if the noise goes just by changing the cam gear. If it doesn't, I'll change the cam and curse the bloody thing some more, and only soften the blow slightly by flogging the alloy gear set (which I'll then know is ok and not the cause of the noise) and continue to replace the cam (if that doesn't cure it, there will be an S-shaped bonfire in Fareham that night).
if the noise does go, I'll dance around in the yard to the Art Of Noise and throw the alloy gear kit into the nearest hedge. Then I'll tell Piper what I think of their camshaft before rebuilding the car and enjoying what's left of the summer.
Time will tell....
Edited by Kitchski on Monday 11th July 20:50
glenrobbo said:
Barry says that Mat Smith told him that tappets are like children:
If you can't hear them, they're up to no good!
A tappy engine is a happy engine, as they say! It's pretty sweet now though, and that's with no front end on it. Once the bonnet's back on it will be even quieter.If you can't hear them, they're up to no good!
Gassing Station | S Series | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff