V8s trailing arms

[DamianS3]

Hello

Anyone have a pair of V8s trailing arms for sale? Or know who could make some ?

Thanks

Damian

[phillpot]

I don't know about making from scratch but Adrian, Exactly TVR offers an excellent repair service if you have anything to be repaired?

[glenrobbo]

Hi Damian,
TVR Glen had that white V8S for breaking, you could ask him if you're desperate.

[DamianS3]

Thanks folks I will try Glen for a laugh and report back, unless they are mint they may end up going to Adrian anyways ?

Will report back on what Glen says they are worth

Damian

[v8s4me]

phillpot said:

............. Adrian, Exactly TVR offers an excellent repair service ....

Not my experience I'm afraid. Yes, these are the "after" shots of the welding. Much time spent with file, wheel and filler was needed here to make sure there were no cavities left so the paint could adhere properly and prevent moisture/dirt building up in little corners. PM me if you want the details.

Maybe try Richard at Southways Automotive. I've not used him myself but others on here have. It should be a straight forward job for a competent fabricator/welder but a big press is needed to replace the old bush. I'd recommend sticking with the "old skool" rubber bush.

[jwoffshore]

During late summer I encountered a bit of a dead end with this subject, with a rusted arm on my V8S. I thought it would be easier to buy a complete new arm than bother with a refurb - wrong!

1. TVR Glen - twice failed to return my calls ref the white V8S. So I gave up.

2. The jigs and component parts for constructing new S arms (V6 and V8) used to be held at Morrish Engineering in Tiverton, Devon, dating back to when TVR Car Parts existed. I spoke to Neil at ML Parts about this. The jigs remained at Morrish Eng when David Gerald took over the TVR Car Parts business and so they continued to make new arms on behalf of DG. However, when DG sold out to TVR themselves, TVR have taken possession of the jigs and have done precisely nothing with them. I called TVR about this, telling them that they had effectively seized up the supply of new S series arms and what were they going to do about it? The guy I spoke to seemed to have no clue that S series owners ever even needed new arms and nor did he offer any serious prospects of opening up the supply again. I guess the jigs are on a shelf and the people at TVR don't even understand properly what they have got. Why on earth TVR did not simply continue to commission Morrish Eng to make the arms is anybody's guess. I did further try to chase up Neil at ML Parts about this, but my email went unanswered. Anybody concerned should give the TVR factory parts people a call and complain, same as I did. Also might be worth you chasing up Neil, further to my original inquiry.

3. Adrian Venn - has jigs to refurbish both V6 and V8 arms. He refurbished my rusty V8 arm and did an excellent job, much better than the one pictured in this thread. He must have been having a bad day on that occasion. I understand that all the other TVR chassis repair workshops (e.g. Southways, RT Racing etc) do in fact send their arms to Adrian anyway. At the time I collected my arm, Adrian also had another pair of V8S arms he had just done for one of the trader workshops. The only downside of Adrian's service is that I don't think he is currently set up to manufacture complete new arms from scratch, but you could always ask, same as I did. The more who ask, the more likely he is to consider the activity to be worthwhile.

4. If you want to convert V6 arms to the wider track V8 arms, you could just as easily use a wheel spacer. About 20mm each side should do it.

Jonathan

Edited by jwoffshore on Saturday 19th November 22:42

[Top Gear TVR]

does anyone have pictures of the repair process? I'm interested to understand what the issues are.

[glenrobbo]

Issues to be considered are:

* Material procurement: correct spec of channel section, tubing, and plate for webs
* Correct angles and dimensions of component parts of assembly
* Correct placement of damper brackets ( ? varies between models of S ) and pipe clip / handbrake cable studs
* Accurate jigging of components for welding, ensuring that toe-in, camber angle ( at rear hub mounting face ) and pivot bush housings are within tolerances and alignment.


Is this old thread any help Steve?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...

Everyone should be aware, they can appear ok on the outside, but they rot from the inside.

Adrian's welding looks ok in the photos there. Perhaps Joe over-haggled on the price of his?

Edited by glenrobbo on Sunday 20th November 09:17

[v8s4me]

glenrobbo said:

... Perhaps Joe over-haggled on the price of his?...

I didn't haggle and paid him the price he quoted! I didn't even bother to shop around because he was considered to be "the man to go to" and his good reputation. Honestly Glen, if you'd seen the welding "in the metal" you'd have been as disappointed as I was. I can't weld, but I know what good welding looks like, and this is not good welding. This is what I had to do to make it look like "good welding".........





That's just one side and I had to file/grind lots of spatter off the adjacent flat surfaces. It was returned in red oxide when I'd asked for two-pack and Adrian's reason was "I couldn't remember what we'd discussed, but I didn't charge you for the bush". But I'd already agreed to pay the extra for the FG bush!

As you can tell I'm still very annoyed about this. This job came on top of another bad let-down by anther TVR "specialist" so I think my mistake is expecting so called "specialists" to do exactly what they promise to do and not what they can be bothered to do when they get the job in front of them.

[Le TVR]

v8s4me said:

Maybe try Richard at Southways Automotive.

I gave him a new V8 Trailing arm when he restored my S1 last year, can't remember if it was L or R though. TVR Car Parts shipped it by mistake and the company folded before arranging to ship it back.

[v8s4me]

Given modern CAD design and alloy casting, would reproducing training arms in cast alloy be cost effective? Would there be an issue in the hub mounting plate? Would threads cut into the alloy be able to take the torque on the mounting bolts?

A modern fit and forget solution would be nice but I suppose the old mild steel items have lasted 20+ years.

Is there any reason why the tubular sections on the original arms (not the bush housing) couldn't be box section if it made them easier to re-manufacture? That big box section connecting the inner end to the pivot block on the chassis to the hub seems an over complicated section. Is there any reason why it couldn't be a simple box-section? Or even an I-beam?

Any engineers out there who might be able to comment?

[glenrobbo]

Sorry Joe, I didn't mean to upset you. I agree that welding was awfully sub-standard, but I would have immediately contacted Adrian for redress as soon as I saw them.

[DamianS3]

Thanks folks some interesting discussion.

Alloy trailing arms mmm..

To many so called specialists seem to play on the fact they are not local and make it as hard as possible to redress while knowing you need the car on the road.

There is on total rip off merchant trimmer in Blackpool who now just hangs up when I ring him from my mobile.. btw it's not DC they are very good..

Thanks

Damian

[v8s4me]

glenrobbo said:

Sorry Joe, I didn't mean to upset you...... but I would have immediately contacted Adrian for redress as soon as I saw them.

No problem Glen. I did call AV as soon as I opened the package but that was concerning the first thing I noticed which was the not-to-order paint finish. It was only after I put the 'phone down that I paid attention to the "welding". But given his indifferent response to the initial call I decided not to wind my self up any more and just put the effort into making it good. In other words, doing the work myself as this seems to be the only way of getting a decent job.

DamianS3 said:

...To many so called specialists seem to play on the fact they are not local and make it as hard as possible to redress while knowing you need the car on the road.....

Precisely! If I had gone back to AV again and he'd agreed to re-do the work it would have cost me another lot of return postage. The postage cost was £18.00 each way. So that would have been another £36.00 on top of the £181.00 the job had already cost me.

I really ought to let this go now but I just don't want anyone else on here to get the service I got.

Hopefully TVR Parts can be persuaded to re-manufacture the parts to OEM standard at a sensible price. Would £250 to £300 per side seem a fair price to pay for a good quality ready to fit part (ie bushed & painted?

[magpies]

DamianS3 said:

Thanks folks some interesting discussion.

Alloy trailing arms mmm..

To many so called specialists seem to play on the fact they are not local and make it as hard as possible to redress while knowing you need the car on the road.

There is on total rip off merchant trimmer in Blackpool who now just hangs up when I ring him from my mobile.. btw it's not DC they are very good..

Thanks

Damian

ring him from a different phone

[Le TVR]

v8s4me said:

Would £250 to £300 per side seem a fair price to pay for a good quality ready to fit part (ie bushed & painted?

IIRC I paid 300 + VAT each 5 years ago so I think nearer 500 Bushed + VAT now

[v8s4me]

That sounds a lot given the cost of the materials and assuming the jig already exists. Say an hours work per side at £100 plus steel at say £30 plus two bushes at £40 plus painting, say £30 giving a manufacturing cost of maybe £200 (ex VAT). There's the cost of the mounting plates to add in but there's still a decent profit margin to be made. £50/hr for a decent welder is OK isn't it, and steel hasn't gone up much, has it?

Edited by v8s4me on Sunday 20th November 13:55

[glenrobbo]

v8s4me said:

That sounds a lot given the cost of the materials and assuming the jig already exists. Say an hours work per side at £100 plus steel at say £30 plus two bushes at £40 plus painting, say £30 giving a manufacturing cost of maybe £200 (ex VAT). There's the cost of the mounting plates to add in but there's still a decent profit margin to be made. £50/hr for a decent welder is OK isn't it, and steel hasn't gone up much, has it?

I'd like to see the guy who could fabricate the compenent parts in 1 hour per side, Joe! But he would be just a blur!!!

[GreenV8S]

I broke a trailing arm at Hethel a few years ago and Tower View (no longer trading) rebuilt both sides using heavy square section instead of the pretty round tubes. I don't remember what they charged but is seemed about right for 2-3 hours of work. The end result looks a lot stronger than the original and relatively simple to reproduce. I would have thought that any decent fabricator with a good standard arm to make a jig from would be able to cut the tubes off a damaged one and weld replacements in without too much trouble - even as a one-off I wouldn't expect it to be very expensive.

[jwoffshore]

Well, I've got to say that I am wondering why I have bothered to post anything factual and helpful here!! You guys have pretty much ignored what I went to the effort of describing in some detail and gone off on a load of waffle and speculation.....

It's a shame that Joe had a bad experience with Adrian, because mine was entirely positive. He answered my very detailed initial email inquiries and then delivered a good quality job (welding was fine) in a timely fashion. I am fortunate to live within 20 miles of him, so delivery charges were not an issue. Any arms you get refurbished by Southways or RT Racing will be done by Adrian anyway. The repair process is to grit blast to bare metal, plasma cut out the rusted 2" tube and weld in a new one supported by a jig. I can weld very well myself, but I don't have the jig which is vital to the process.

Anybody motivated to get new arms made should chase up TVR Parts and also Neil at ML Parts rather than dreaming that anybody is ever going to bother tooling up from scratch to produce aluminium arms for such a small market.

As for price, looking at TVR Parts website, they are charging in excess of £400 for an S series steering rack, so don't expect their price for a trailing arm to be a great bargain.