S1 fuel pump with integral non return valve

[Sunnysu]

To continue the saga of the S1 restart problem, which has been mooted to be a leaky non return valve on the fuel pump, . . . I was advised by some of you guys that the answer may lie in a new fuel pump with an integral non return valve.
Martin from TGA in Wolverhampton has carried out a search and the pumps that are available to him are not guaranteed to have a non-return valve fitted.
Obviously to pay out for a fuel pump that is of no use is not sensbile. So is there any advice as to where to source the correct fuel pump with integral non return valve, or is there an alternative installation which will protect the system and eliminate this starting problem.

[TVRees]

These are listed in the alternative parts list ....

Not sure if they are also suitable for the S1, maybe someone can verify this.

[phillpot]

Is it same pump on 2.8 and 2.9/

2.9 presumably has a NRV because pressure is held in the fuel rail (there's a little valve to release it)


every Bosch fuel pump exploded diagram I Googled shows a valve, No. 4................

[greymrj]

Su, I strongly suggest you download this listing of parts.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw2UHUb5GKJ6MDk3Q...

TVRees reviewed the entire information available on original and alternative parts sources for our cars and produced this really excellent resource.
It lists the correct part numbers for suitable fuel pumps. As Mike has added above, all the fuel pumps Bosch make for the Ford V6 have an integral non return valve. You do need the correct part though if you want the correct pipe arrangements.

Can I add a footnote. When you have the old pump out, let it dry for a bit then tap the input side down on a piece of paper and see what comes out. If there is ANY rust at all in there then that will have been the cause of a pump losing pressure. Any such rust will keep coming and will just damage any new pump. If there is rust then you can install an in line filter prior to the pump, can advise on that. If there are flakes of rust rather than just 'dust' the tank is suspect. An in line filter with a renewable element will buy you time!

Edited by greymrj on Saturday 4th February 09:55

[Scoobimax]

When RT replaced my fuel pump (as per my post on your FB thread) they also added a pre filter as the "broken" pump failed due to all the crap out if the tank - £20 to protect the a £100 pump seemed a good investment for a logical preventative step

Edited by Scoobimax on Saturday 4th February 20:35

Edited by Scoobimax on Saturday 4th February 20:35

[glenrobbo]

Scoobimax said:

When RT replaced my fuel pump (as per my post on your FB thread) they also added a pre-emptive in-line filter as the "broken" pump failed due to all the crap out of the tank - a £20 filter to protect the £100 pump seemed a good investment for a logical preventative step

FTFY Max.

Hi Su,
In our S1 tanks, there is a built-in plastic mesh filter bonded into the well inside the bottom of the tank. This can disintegrate in time ( after nearly 30 years, these things happen! ) and it then allows any bits of rubbish or rust particles ( and bits of filter! ) to be drawn into the pump, which, being a high precision close tolerance device, does not like this at all.
An in-line filter fitted between the tank and fuel pump will protect the pump, as Max and Richard have wisely pointed out:

"If here is ANY rust at all in there then that will have been the cause of a pump losing pressure. Any such rust will keep coming and will just damage any new pump. If there is rust then you can install an in line pumpfilter prior to the pump"

Tell your motor factor / garage that the fuel pump is the same as the Capri 2.8 Injection, Sierra 2.8i, or Granada 2.8i
I fitted the Bosch pump to my S1, although cheaper makes are available.

Good luck.

[greymrj]

(thanks Glen, original now edited)

[mentall]

I spent ages trawling eBay etc for a small inline filter with 15mm connections, before finding THIS elegant device in the obvious place: it has given total satisfaction!

[greymrj]

Yes, I am a great supporter of Car Builder Solutions, their range is impressive and growing. They have also been good enough to supply parts for us to check for suitability and to source parts to meet needs. They deserve to be supported. Can I ask anyone who does buy to please mention that they got the contact through the TVR S forum on PH, it does help us in increasing good will with them.

If you do not have their catalogue then ask for one, it is a great source of information on what is now available out there..and a source of inspiration.

(I have no financial involvement with them at all)

I would add that Demon Tweeks also do a large bore removable element filter that is very suitable. I have one on my car. It is rather more substantial and stronger made than the CBS one, (and very pretty!) but CONSIDERABLY more expensive!

[TVRees]

mentall said:

I spent ages trawling eBay etc for a small inline filter with 15mm connections, before finding THIS elegant device in the obvious place: it has given total satisfaction!

That's just what I've been looking for. I also spent ages searching on eBay, etc.
I'll add this to the alternative parts list.

[mungral]

Is there a quick way to check the fuel pump? Can it normally be heard when the ignition is switched on?

My S has decided it doesn't want to start this week; there's a decent spark and occasional firing as if it wants to start when first cranked.

I put a splash of fuel in the plenum inlet and got a couple of cylinders to fire but it wouldn't keep going.

Any advice?

[TVR-Stu]

mungral said:

Is there a quick way to check the fuel pump? Can it normally be heard when the ignition is switched on?

Yes, as soon as the ignition is turned on you should hear the pump whirring away until the system is pressurised. It's only momentary but very noticeable if it's working correctly.

[GreenV8S]

On the V8S the fuel pump priming is just a fixed timed pulse of about a second, when the ignition is switched on. I don't remember - is the V6 similar? If the environment is reasonably quiet, the fuel pump noise is very obvious. If you don't get it, my first step would be to connect a volt meter / test lamp across the fuel pump and see whether you get a voltage when the ignition is switched on. If not, trace back to the fuel pump relay and see whether it has power and whether the coil is getting power when the priming pulse is due. There is also an inertia cut-off switch between the relay and the pump which had turned to a lump of rust on mine.

[RayTVR]

GreenV8S said:

On the V8S the fuel pump priming is just a fixed timed pulse of about a second, when the ignition is switched on. I don't remember - is the V6 similar? .

Yes, exactly the same -a 1-2 second whirring sound as you engage the ignition key position before the starter.

[phillpot]

another test if you're still unsure after listening for pump noise would be to turn ignition on and test for pressure at the valve on the fuel rail.

If pump is working fuel will spurt out when you press the valve in (it's just like a tyre valve) so plenty of rag around it!


Not easy to see on a photo, it's almost under the plenum..............

[greymrj]

Su, yours isnt the same. No nice valve to test the pressure I am afraid. One trick is to remove the fuel connector off the 7th injector, the one with the blue electrical connector on the drivers side of the plenum, put it well into a jar and get someone to try the ignition. There should be a fine spray, NOT a jet or a drip! It wont pulse, at least it shouldnt on a 2.8.
Any luck?

[phillpot]

greymrj said:

Su, yours isnt the same.

Sorry for any confusion, thought Sue had already decided upon a new pump, suggestion was for Mungral whom I quite possibly incorrectly took to have a 2.9 engined car?

[greymrj]

Not sure what Mungral has either, picture suggests S1 or 2 (short door and 5 spokes) but could be either engine. As he is in Australia I dont think we will be able to check at SCH! One of has given him approprate advice anyway

[mungral]

Yes it's an S1 with the 2.8

Thanks all who've responded. The weather here is forecast for 40 degrees C plus this weekend; ideal for messing about with fuel.

[glenrobbo]

Nice. Sorry you're having a cold spell, Mungral

It's Three Degrees here and I'll never see forty again.
Enjoy those Precious Moments with your S.