Tracking / alignment readings
Discussion
quote:
hi,
Front toe in: +3.2mm +-1.5 mm Camber: 0+-0.5 degrees Castor: +3.5 +-0.5 degrees
Rear toe in: +3.0mm +-1.5 mm Camber: -1+-0.25 degrees
Cheers
Matt.
How is toe in measured? Middle seam of tire at axle level, difference front to rear of tire, or what?
Cheers Patrick
>> Edited by roulli on Tuesday 2nd April 11:13
I have only recently discovered this great site with all the wealth of great information.
I think I have the only TVR (S3) in Finlad so it is hard to get good service or knowledge. Just purchased new tires and I wanted to make sure the tracking / alignment and camber are set up OK. Thanks Giles and Patrick for the question and answers
>> Edited by woodii2 on Saturday 13th April 09:09
I think I have the only TVR (S3) in Finlad so it is hard to get good service or knowledge. Just purchased new tires and I wanted to make sure the tracking / alignment and camber are set up OK. Thanks Giles and Patrick for the question and answers
>> Edited by woodii2 on Saturday 13th April 09:09
S2 Giles
Just read in your profile, that you fit new springs and AVO's.
Would be nice if you could share your experience, before - after.
(handling and ride)
Did you fit standard springs?
How were your geometrics at the back after you changed the trailing arms? I guess you had to set it.
Cheers
Patrick
Just read in your profile, that you fit new springs and AVO's.
Would be nice if you could share your experience, before - after.
(handling and ride)
Did you fit standard springs?
How were your geometrics at the back after you changed the trailing arms? I guess you had to set it.
Cheers
Patrick
Hi Roulli
I have had fitted new AVO Prorace (black & red)shocks and 20% increased rate springs and then swiftly followed (as there was a hole) by two new trailing arms.
Prior to the work, my old set up had travelled quite some miles, the bonnet wouldn't open without hitting the floor, couldn't go over any speed bumps at all and it bounced alot, particularly at the front end. Shocks had definately seen better days. This made the car feel very soft indeed and I wasnt confident to push the car very hard into corners.
Now, ive only done about 200 miles with the new set up and am still trialling the different damper settings but it is so much stiffer than before, I can corner with confidence. I'm just being careful not to stiffen the rear too much as it will let go of grip earlier and nobody wants to face the wrong way on a roundabout.
I have the AVO's set on about 6 or 7 out of 14 clicks although i need to try and tailor each corner as 6 clicks on one is not the same as 6 on another.
The trailing arms needed shims inserting to get the tracking right, we used 4 fat & 3 thin shims in total but each car will be different. The tracking guy reckons the car was very straight considering its build type & age.
The ride height is the best bit for anyone using their car for every day purposes. The trailing arms are S3 type and therefore raise the rear ride height by about 1", I have now raised the front about 1" to match, not only does it look better, but I can open the bonnet fully and the country lane dips dont catch out the exhaust anymore. After examining pictures from the bible, i reckon the ride height is about at factory settings, maybe 1cm higher.
Ive now moved on to my next job, chasis care and am currently stripping the rusty old coating off the rear of the chasis before re-painting.
I plan to take the car on a driving holiday around the Loire Valley this July and can't wait.
I have had fitted new AVO Prorace (black & red)shocks and 20% increased rate springs and then swiftly followed (as there was a hole) by two new trailing arms.
Prior to the work, my old set up had travelled quite some miles, the bonnet wouldn't open without hitting the floor, couldn't go over any speed bumps at all and it bounced alot, particularly at the front end. Shocks had definately seen better days. This made the car feel very soft indeed and I wasnt confident to push the car very hard into corners.
Now, ive only done about 200 miles with the new set up and am still trialling the different damper settings but it is so much stiffer than before, I can corner with confidence. I'm just being careful not to stiffen the rear too much as it will let go of grip earlier and nobody wants to face the wrong way on a roundabout.
I have the AVO's set on about 6 or 7 out of 14 clicks although i need to try and tailor each corner as 6 clicks on one is not the same as 6 on another.
The trailing arms needed shims inserting to get the tracking right, we used 4 fat & 3 thin shims in total but each car will be different. The tracking guy reckons the car was very straight considering its build type & age.
The ride height is the best bit for anyone using their car for every day purposes. The trailing arms are S3 type and therefore raise the rear ride height by about 1", I have now raised the front about 1" to match, not only does it look better, but I can open the bonnet fully and the country lane dips dont catch out the exhaust anymore. After examining pictures from the bible, i reckon the ride height is about at factory settings, maybe 1cm higher.
Ive now moved on to my next job, chasis care and am currently stripping the rusty old coating off the rear of the chasis before re-painting.
I plan to take the car on a driving holiday around the Loire Valley this July and can't wait.
Are the +20% springs of the "4 upper windings on block" type? (i think called "rising rate" or so).
I have these and comfort is just ok. I would not like comfort to decrease, but the car could do actually with more roll stiffness. I mean the roll stiffness, when doing a lane change at high speed not at steady state. I remember that, I improved this "dynamic" roll stiffness on my Volvo Amazon (12 years ago) by increasing slightly the damper rate of the Spax shocks. So maybe my Tiv is just underdamped (by Koni).
Question to the suspension Gurus: Is the car overdamped, if shocks increase dynamic roll stiffness?
On the other side old Lotuses (said to be reference in handling) used to have much roll, but they were much lighter as well. Chapman was an ARB hater, wasn't he.
Cheers
Patrick
>> Edited by roulli on Thursday 18th April 10:27
I have these and comfort is just ok. I would not like comfort to decrease, but the car could do actually with more roll stiffness. I mean the roll stiffness, when doing a lane change at high speed not at steady state. I remember that, I improved this "dynamic" roll stiffness on my Volvo Amazon (12 years ago) by increasing slightly the damper rate of the Spax shocks. So maybe my Tiv is just underdamped (by Koni).
Question to the suspension Gurus: Is the car overdamped, if shocks increase dynamic roll stiffness?
On the other side old Lotuses (said to be reference in handling) used to have much roll, but they were much lighter as well. Chapman was an ARB hater, wasn't he.
Cheers
Patrick
>> Edited by roulli on Thursday 18th April 10:27
quote:
Are the +20% springs of the "4 upper windings on block" type? (i think called "rising rate" or so).
I have these and comfort is just ok. I would not like comfort to decrease, but the car could do actually with more roll stiffness. I mean the roll stiffness, when doing a lane change at high speed not at steady state. I remember that, I improved this "dynamic" roll stiffness on my Volvo Amazon (12 years ago) by increasing slightly the damper rate of the Spax shocks. So maybe my Tiv is just underdamped (by Koni).
Question to the suspension Gurus: Is the car overdamped, if shocks increase dynamic roll stiffness?
On the other side old Lotuses (said to be reference in handling) used to have much roll, but they were much lighter as well. Chapman was an ARB hater, wasn't he.
Cheers
Patrick
>> Edited by roulli on Thursday 18th April 10:27
Cheap or tired dampers will make the ride quality a lot worse. If you have good dampers that are just set too hard in an effort to compensate for soft springs, this will make the ride a lot worse too - without improving the handling that much. The best answer is to fit good quality dampers rated to match the springs, and stiffen the springs and dampers together to tweak the handling/ride comfort balance.
I agree with Green V8S' response and this is kind of why I dont want to go over 7 of the 14 clicks as overstiffness is not the answer.
My springs are not rising rate, and are very comfortable as they are set.
My guess would be that your shocks are a little old and therefore soft. if they are koni's then they will probably be standard fit from factory and therefore older.
Changing lane at speed never really seems a problem for me although it was a little bouncy with the old set up.
My springs are not rising rate, and are very comfortable as they are set.
My guess would be that your shocks are a little old and therefore soft. if they are koni's then they will probably be standard fit from factory and therefore older.
Changing lane at speed never really seems a problem for me although it was a little bouncy with the old set up.
Well damping is not so bad in the sense, that there is no abnormal wheelrebound on bumpy roads, neither at the front neither at the back under acceleration. It could be possible that the previous owners replaced the the KONI's by new ones. (The car is originally from Germany and they tend more to buy OE stuff, KONI is also well known atthe continent)
Lanechange at high speed is not bouncy with mine. Slip angle at the rear is also ok (--> stability is ok). It is just a pity, that the car rolls instantly after fast steering input, for a certain amount, until it settles. This takes away the go-cart like feeling that I would expect. It is not really dangerous. Firmer ARB bushes could maybe cure this by means of a more immediate stress of the ARB. (sorry, dono how to express this in English) Will check for play in the ARB bushes...
Cheers Patrick
Lanechange at high speed is not bouncy with mine. Slip angle at the rear is also ok (--> stability is ok). It is just a pity, that the car rolls instantly after fast steering input, for a certain amount, until it settles. This takes away the go-cart like feeling that I would expect. It is not really dangerous. Firmer ARB bushes could maybe cure this by means of a more immediate stress of the ARB. (sorry, dono how to express this in English) Will check for play in the ARB bushes...
Cheers Patrick
My understanding would be both age & mileage. They are being stressed more by mileage but standing still for 2 years would put some minor wear on them i guess.
Roulli - I dont know how long youve had the car but the S series do tend to 'corner on their door handles' with OE on them. You dont get the go-kart feel that my old Westfield used to provide. You may also want some stiffer springs ? the ones fitted may not be the right rate. but just remember it will never be ultimately stiff unless you invest in like GreenV8S does for example & uses a hard set up for track purposes i'm sure.
Roulli - I dont know how long youve had the car but the S series do tend to 'corner on their door handles' with OE on them. You dont get the go-kart feel that my old Westfield used to provide. You may also want some stiffer springs ? the ones fitted may not be the right rate. but just remember it will never be ultimately stiff unless you invest in like GreenV8S does for example & uses a hard set up for track purposes i'm sure.
quote:
Do shocks wear out with age rather than miles? Reason for asking is that my V8S feels softer and less stable on cornering than my S3 used to - but the S3 was older and had a higher mileage and it hadn't had the shocks replaced as far as I could tell.
Mostly a combination of abuse/miles and age. Also V8S springs and shocks and chassis are different from an s3 and that the tyres (type and pressure) also come into the equation. The weight and its distribution is different and then there is those two extra cylinders...
In other words, he who compares TVR with another is doomed to life of pain and anguish... he who drives the thing and enjoys it will be eternally blessed.
Translation: there are so many variables that it can be very difficult to explain why car A is different from car B.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
I run 400lbs fronts and 300lbs rears with Gaz Dampers.
The dampers are set very stiff and the car still rolls through corners.
It is far stiffer than the standard set up. Not as stiff as Paceracings or Peter Humphries car by a long shot but in comparison to standard it does give more of a go kart feel.
I have driven a couple of other cars with standard set ups and the difference is noticeable.
I also wholly agree with what Steve says that not one S is like another even with the same dampers etc due to tyres, ARB's, bushes etc etc the list goes on.
Cheers
Mark
The dampers are set very stiff and the car still rolls through corners.
It is far stiffer than the standard set up. Not as stiff as Paceracings or Peter Humphries car by a long shot but in comparison to standard it does give more of a go kart feel.
I have driven a couple of other cars with standard set ups and the difference is noticeable.
I also wholly agree with what Steve says that not one S is like another even with the same dampers etc due to tyres, ARB's, bushes etc etc the list goes on.
Cheers
Mark
quote:
Mostly a combination of abuse/miles and age. Also V8S springs and shocks and chassis are different from an s3 and that the tyres (type and pressure) also come into the equation. The weight and its distribution is different and then there is those two extra cylinders...
Good points Steve,
The S3c had done 38,000 miles and felt reasonably firm, it was great on corners but a bit hard on white lines and holes in the road. It had standard rims and RE71s. The V8S has only 24,000 miles (going up, soon sort that) on same wheels and tyres. As you say the chassis is very different to the S3, its just that the ride is a bit soft when 'pressing on' round the lanes.
I'm going to get a roll bar fitted soon and I think I'll look at upgrading the suspension at the same time. I guess that'll be the start of the spending on improvements then
Cheers,
JSG.
After replacing my front tyres I checked your news group for wheel alignment spec. - went to have the adjustments made to find, there machine used degrees for the toe in measurement. Is this possible?
At least I found out that the measurements showed differences between each side. The technician tried to find adjustments to make them similar but could not but suggested shims or something may be used?
He suggested that the bushes relating to the suspension all needed replacing as a start. If this is so, what type do I ask for and where in UK can I get these. The same information is needed for the shims - if this is the case.
Thanks in advance
At least I found out that the measurements showed differences between each side. The technician tried to find adjustments to make them similar but could not but suggested shims or something may be used?
He suggested that the bushes relating to the suspension all needed replacing as a start. If this is so, what type do I ask for and where in UK can I get these. The same information is needed for the shims - if this is the case.
Thanks in advance
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