Newcastle places to eat?
Discussion
r129sl said:
There are only two restaurants worth eating at.
Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is s
t, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele.
There are no good hotels.
I don't rate restaurants by lists, rankings, Michelin stars etc ... but my personal experience. I keep an open mind and regularly dine at many great restaurants. It's therefore easy to concede there is none in Newcastle. That said, there are presently some budding prospects and time will tell if they remain good or become great. Your opinion that "everywhere else is sPani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is s
t, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele. There are no good hotels.
t" is a gross exaggeration. Therefore, whilst I agree this is in part due to a lack of discerning clientele, I would suggest you get out more as there are places in Newcastle which are still good if not great. Restaurants in Newcastle need your feedback to help improve the situation for all of us! 
Likewise, there are good but not great hotels in the region. If we're benchmarking against other hotels, I would argue there few, if any, great hotels in the UK at all.
r129sl said:
There are only two restaurants worth eating at.
Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is st, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele.
There are no good hotels.
Which magazine do you write for?Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is s
t, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele. There are no good hotels.
r129sl said:
There are only two restaurants worth eating at.
Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is st, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele.
There are no good hotels.
Really?Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is s
t, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele. There are no good hotels.
Ever been to Little Saigon on the Big Market for a nice Vietnamese meal?
El Coto for the Tapas?
FujiYama for the Teppen Yaki?
David Kennedy's at the Biscuit factory?
I could go on, there are loads of places in Newcastle. I've only been living here for 4 years and I know where to look!
I appreciate there are some ropey places, but it's nowhere near as bad as you've made it out to be.
sanguinary said:
r129sl said:
There are only two restaurants worth eating at.
Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is st, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele.
There are no good hotels.
Really?Pani's. (Very cheap Italian café. Only any good for lunch.)
Café 21. (Very reasonable modern British. Good for lunch or dinner.)
Everywhere else is s
t, I am afraid. The problem is the lack of a discerning clientele. There are no good hotels.
Ever been to Little Saigon on the Big Market for a nice Vietnamese meal?
El Coto for the Tapas?
FujiYama for the Teppen Yaki?
David Kennedy's at the Biscuit factory?
I could go on, there are loads of places in Newcastle. I've only been living here for 4 years and I know where to look!
I appreciate there are some ropey places, but it's nowhere near as bad as you've made it out to be.
My advice is simple: if you care about food, learn how to cook and take care to cook well. You will then eat much better than in most restaurants.
It will be interesting to see how House of Tides and Peace and Loaf settle down.
r129sl said:
I eat out at least once every day, have done for decades, and I have had the misfortune to visit all of the restaurants you mention. El Coto is OK; the Biscuit is OK; but OK is not good enough. Fujiyama is bad joke, a pastiche: calling it a restaurant is like calling the circus theatre. Most places are let down by over-ambitious menus, over-confident management, utterly dreadful service (the consequence of decades of useless child-centred education) and sheep-like customers who lack the wit to think for themselves.
My advice is simple: if you care about food, learn how to cook and take care to cook well. You will then eat much better than in most restaurants.
It will be interesting to see how House of Tides and Peace and Loaf settle down.
Peace & Loaf has a fine dining format but the food does not live up to expectations in my opinion; not yet anyway. The Prix Fixe is good value but expensive for what it is otherwise. Although I've yet to try it, I think House of Tides is potentially a different matter.My advice is simple: if you care about food, learn how to cook and take care to cook well. You will then eat much better than in most restaurants.
It will be interesting to see how House of Tides and Peace and Loaf settle down.
toon10 said:
Just to add, I think Jamie Olivers place is opening up in March. Saying that, I wasn't impressed with the one in York. I'm not holding out much hope that it won't be anything other than overpiced but decent enough without being special.
Jamie Oliver's place will be terrible like the rest of them I reckon. I had the misfortune of going to the one in Covent Garden not long ago for lunch. I should have stuck with my instincts and not bothered. It just felt like a below average chain restaurant, similar too Zizzi's.r129sl said:
I eat out at least once every day, have done for decades, and I have had the misfortune to visit all of the restaurants you mention. El Coto is OK; the Biscuit is OK; but OK is not good enough. Fujiyama is bad joke, a pastiche: calling it a restaurant is like calling the circus theatre. Most places are let down by over-ambitious menus, over-confident management, utterly dreadful service (the consequence of decades of useless child-centred education) and sheep-like customers who lack the wit to think for themselves.
My advice is simple: if you care about food, learn how to cook and take care to cook well. You will then eat much better than in most restaurants.
It will be interesting to see how House of Tides and Peace and Loaf settle down.
Okay, I take it back regarding Fujiyama. Spectacle aside though, the food is well prepared and, with the right chef, cooked nicely too.My advice is simple: if you care about food, learn how to cook and take care to cook well. You will then eat much better than in most restaurants.
It will be interesting to see how House of Tides and Peace and Loaf settle down.
I agree with the lack of service too, having been on the wrong end before now, or waiting for what seems an age for a bill; it can really wreck an potentially good night..
Interesting how you rate Panis highly. I've been there a few times and can't get to grips with it. I'm always far too warm in there and feel the tables aren't big enough and for me, the food isn't that great to make up for it.
What would you ask of El Coto and the Biscuit factory for them to rate highly with you?
And yes, I cook from fresh every night. Meals range from quick one pot stir fries to complex lengthy curries and delicate fish, with the odd well matured steak for good measure, but it's nice to be cooked for once in a while!
I wonder whether eating out has become the norm for you, as you partake every day? I only get the chance once a month or so, if I'm lucky, so it's still more of a special occasion meaning I probably see it from a different angle.
I am looking forward to the House of Tides though.
Look, I have been deliberately contentious but I am also vaguely serious.
king-Manger.
My favourite meal of all time was at Café 21 in late-2009. I had just met the woman who has since become my wife and the mother of my children. We walked down there the Friday before Christmas at 8pm without a reservation. It was packed. They found us a place, not just any place but my favourite place, the middle booth in the bar area. We ordered soufflé Suissesse and tournedos Rossini, neither of which was on the menu, and they didn't bat an eyelid (that sounds terrible, but it was a meal which we both had enjoyed at Le Gavroche, unfortunately not on the same occasion, and so it had come to take on some bizarre significance for us). The food was good. It was all just right, confident without being pretentious or too try hard. The wait staff were there when we needed them and somehow left us alone when we didn't. They made us feel better than special in a way which I shall always be grateful for.
sanguinary said:
I agree with the lack of service too, having been on the wrong end before now, or waiting for what seems an age for a bill; it can really wreck an potentially good night..
First rule in waiter school: "May I have the bill" means "I want to leave now". Why don't they teach this? Second rule: the customer has come to the restaurant because he is hungry and wishes to eat.sanguinary said:
Interesting how you rate Panis highly. I've been there a few times and can't get to grips with it. I'm always far too warm in there and feel the tables aren't big enough and for me, the food isn't that great to make up for it.
You know how it is: go somewhere almost every day and you come to love it, even if objectively it's not quite there. What I like about Pani's is that it's quick, cheap and fresh: I have whichever of the three daily specials Robby tells me to have, sometimes a plate of cold meat, a litre of fizzy water and a double espresso and it takes 20minutes and costs £10 including tip. Beats Pret-a-fking-Manger.sanguinary said:
What would you ask of El Coto and the Biscuit factory for them to rate highly with you?
I'm not a big one for tapas: hell, I was born in Blyth and it's just too strange. I've never liked the room at the Biscuit, even when Mark Lagan had it. But both places seem unduly pleased with themselves, that's the main thing. Also the clientele: both are night time venues and the Newcastle night time crowd—even at the posh end—especially at the posh end—is a bit grim for me. I'm a shy boy, I'm afraid.sanguinary said:
I wonder whether eating out has become the norm for you, as you partake every day? I only get the chance once a month or so, if I'm lucky, so it's still more of a special occasion meaning I probably see it from a different angle.
You're right, of course. But also, I really love eating, more than anyone I know. That's how I got into cooking, which gives me huge pleasure. And also I tend to believe in two maxims. First: "more" means "worse": this is acutely true of menu choices. Second: if something is popular, it is almost certainly rubbish. The modern restaurant is not right: it's all about them and not about you. Either that or it's just another dull leisure operator's money maker. Jamie's Italian, or whatever it is called? It's just posh McDonald's. It's a chain. You know what they say about chains: great on a slapper's ankle but no good for restaurants. A bit coarse, sorry.My favourite meal of all time was at Café 21 in late-2009. I had just met the woman who has since become my wife and the mother of my children. We walked down there the Friday before Christmas at 8pm without a reservation. It was packed. They found us a place, not just any place but my favourite place, the middle booth in the bar area. We ordered soufflé Suissesse and tournedos Rossini, neither of which was on the menu, and they didn't bat an eyelid (that sounds terrible, but it was a meal which we both had enjoyed at Le Gavroche, unfortunately not on the same occasion, and so it had come to take on some bizarre significance for us). The food was good. It was all just right, confident without being pretentious or too try hard. The wait staff were there when we needed them and somehow left us alone when we didn't. They made us feel better than special in a way which I shall always be grateful for.
r129sl said:
You're right, of course. But also, I really love eating, more than anyone I know. That's how I got into cooking, which gives me huge pleasure. And also I tend to believe in two maxims. First: "more" means "worse": this is acutely true of menu choices. Second: if something is popular, it is almost certainly rubbish. The modern restaurant is not right: it's all about them and not about you. Either that or it's just another dull leisure operator's money maker. Jamie's Italian, or whatever it is called? It's just posh McDonald's.
When can we expect our invite? On a more serious note, I find myself agreeing with you albeit not with the extreme comment regarding all the other restaurants. I also disagree that "if something is popular, it is almost certainly rubbish". I've been to many popular restaurants which have been great and certainly met expectations although it depends on the context in which this is being said. That said, I dined at Noma the year before it was voted into the top spot of the San Pellegrino list and although good, I felt it was underwhelming. I had a similar experience with French Laundry but, considering that Thomas Keller isn't even in the kitchen any more, it should probably come as no surprise although Per Se was excellent. The majority of my best experiences at restaurants are outside of the UK. Admittedly I'm happy to eat out in Newcastle but normally with low expectations since I'll only be disappointed otherwise although some places are actually okay. I'll eat at Cafe 21 occasionally which is good but that place should be better than just good.
For anyone who's eaten extensively outside of Newcastle or the UK, restaurants in Newcastle can be very disappointing because very few make the effort required to make the restaurants something special. I firmly believe that people get into the restaurant business for one of two reasons; either they don't have a choice or they're passionate about food. Unfortunately it's all too easy to identify the restaurants which are lacking that passion.
I made a reservation today at House of Tides for next week and it's an experience I'm very much looking forward to. The last time there was a buzz around a restaurant like this was probably over twenty years ago when Terry Laybourne had a Michelin star with 21 Queen Street. Unfortunately, it's very hard to make fine dining pay in a city like Newcastle and he let it go. Let's see what House of Tides has to offer and whether it will give some of the others a kick up the ass.
Edited by Sierra Mike on Saturday 1st March 03:24
Your experience is certainly wider than mine. I agree with you about the best dining being found overseas (discounting my house). I sort of exhausted myself in London in the late-nineties and early 2000s when I thought I was terribly cool and important and assiduously booked a table every time the latest thing opened up. Now I like simple and domestic and invisible more than anything! Maybe see you at HoT?
Edit: on a lighter note, when you're hungry, anything is delicious.
Edit: on a lighter note, when you're hungry, anything is delicious.
Edited by r129sl on Saturday 1st March 09:44
r129sl said:
Your experience is certainly wider than mine. I agree with you about the best dining being found overseas (discounting my house).
We're waiting for an invitation to your supper club!r129sl said:
I sort of exhausted myself in London in the late-nineties and early 2000s when I thought I was terribly cool and important and assiduously booked a table every time the latest thing opened up. Now I like simple and domestic and invisible more than anything! Maybe see you at HoT?
They've got availability on Tuesday if you're interested. I'm attending with the head chef, manager and director of another restaurant (a good one!). Really looking forward to it.r129sl said:
Look, I have been deliberately contentious but I am also vaguely serious.
I appreciate that, and thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response.I do agree with the majority of what you say. Service certainly makes up for a high percentage of the enjoyment and satisfaction of a good evening out.
Incidentally, I was out over the weekend for my birthday, so I took my partner and a mate to Little Saigon. The food was only around 80% of what it was last time, both in quality and quantity. The sour point for us was that fact they seem to have employed a loud mouth local who loved himself too much and wouldn't listen to our requests. At one point he sat down at our table. I appreciate that with somewhere I've been on many occasions - especially if the owner takes time out to talk. BUT this guy took it upon himself to take a seat with us and rather loudly explain how long and arduous his day had been and that he's been employed to turn the place around, which he will because he's so good at 'that kind of thing'
Whilst he's still there, that's it from us.
Looks like I'll give Pani's another try on your recommendation.
minimoog said:
Pan Haggerty has shut down. Rumours of conflict between the owners. Don't know if it will reopen. Reports are that it had gone off the boil lately, doubtless not unrelated.
Now confirmed as having gone into liquidation.http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/n...
We popped into Za Za Bazaar on Saturday been to Kingdom world too both good buffet style places with something for everyone. Everything's cooked in front of you so it must be storage or something that it looses marks on. Never had an upset stomach, so can't have been too bad
Food in Pacific bar I've found decent too
Food in Pacific bar I've found decent too
Edited by SpannerMonkeys on Monday 31st March 02:00
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