Midlands Exciting Cars Spotted
Discussion
mab1 said:
Ultima (356Speedster maybe?) and a couple of Caterhams at Oakenshaw McDonalds roundabout about 8am yesterday morning, en route to Sunday Service? I passed in the TVR as you were waiting to pull out.
Yup, 'twas us 
I saw you coming down the road, wasn't sure if it was another PH'er heading to the SS or not!
Fun Bus said:
K321 said:
the bmw looked like a proper alpina, with alpina in the centre back bit, twin exahusts, and looked really clean,and was nippy too.
Hmm, still not sure. One minute though I'll get the definitive answer.Hang on...need to direct him to this thread.
So excuse me for being a bit longwinded...
Facts:
- the VIN for an early E21 is the standard BMW E21 VIN so no Alpina VIN for quick identification
- the early non-Buchloe E21 cars were offered in a wide variety of pick-'n-mix options and engine upgrades. These could be installed by a local BMW dealer or distributor. So even Alpina often know which parts ended up where
- typically, the early Alpina E21 cars can only be distinguished by original invoices from later conversions
- only the top model B6 2.8 was built at Alpina in Buchloe.
The facts from DVLA about this particular example:
- it's a 323i RHD ECE spec, so UK market
- engine number is identical to the VIN
- engine size 2315cc
The Alpina upgrades for a 323i of that vintage would be C1 2.3 or B6 2.8.
The C1 2.3 was typically a conversion for lower model 6-cilinder 3-series (ie 320i) using a 323i engine rebuilt at Alpina with Mahle pistons and serious cilinder headwork. It is not a logical upgrade for a 323i as it would have been a costly upgrade where regular tuners could have provided more bang-for-the-buck. Also, retaining the engine number would not be logical as the Alpina engine with different engine number would have been swapped in.
The B6 2.8 was based on the 323i, but as mentioned typically built at Alpina in Buchloe. Also, there are no RHD examples I know of. The most damning of course is if you spent a massive amount of money on upgrades then you would certainly want the engine size changed on DVLA records. Also, Sytner was quite good at making these DVLA changes.
All in all, I would suspect this car is a 323i upgraded with Alpina parts. It might even have had a C1 2.3 engine installed at some point in time. However it's likely not an original Alpina.
Zyp said:
Seek, any reason as to why Askmid only has it as a 'BMW 323i' whereas my Alpina comes up as 'BMW Alpina D3 bi-turbo'?
Would this alone tell us it isn't genuine?
Alpina only received manufacturer status in 1984-ish.Would this alone tell us it isn't genuine?
So any Alpinas that pre-date that only have a BMW VIN.
Most Alpinas after that date - including your D3 BiTurbo - have the BMW VIN crossed out and replaced with an Alpina VIN.
So in the case of this 323i it will be registered as BMW regardless of provenance.
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