Recycling in Bristol
Discussion
yertis said:
Has anyone done a lifecycle audit of the amount of energy used by the recycling trucks on their weekly rolling roadblock exercise, and set it against the energy saved by collecting a few bottles, tin cans and soggy newspapers?
Yes.
If you care to trawl through the DEFRA website or www.wrap.org.uk you'll find the outcome there.
As said before, making recycled products uses about 75% less energy than making products using new raw materials. Know where you're heading but I can assure you, you are wrong!
steviebee said:
pdV6 said:
Out of interest, then, was the "filled bin %-age" diagram dictated to you by BCC or was that your own invention?
The reason I ask is that its being used as the sole justification for "selling" the reduced the bin collections to us and is, to my mind, misleading and factually incorrect.
The idea is based upon a nationaly accepted method but the figures are based upon averages in Bristol. The actual perectages were audited by a not-for-profit organisation called Network Recycling (now Resource Futures) whom we have nothing to do with.
The % s show average domestic waste composition over 130,000 homes in Bristol. There will of course be individual variances - such as with yourself. It's also worth noting that the figures are based on wieght not volume.
But you've missed my point entirely - the diagram shows stuff in the black bin that was already being dealt with via the black box collection and then conveniently uses that figure as part of the "bin space saving" which simply isn't true - it was never in the bin in the first place. I did note that the figures were by weight and not volume and that is the 2nd reason why the figures are totally misleading - i.e. high volume lightweight plastic packaging that is deemed by BCC to be non-recyclable fills your bin by volume but makes up a tiny percentage by weight. Therefore the predicted savings in black bin space simply are not achievable. This in turn shows that the fortnightly collection coupled with a strict policy of no overflowing bins or extra sacks left out means that it is impossible to get our rubbish taken away by the council. Great.
steviebee said:
They're not reducing collections. In fact, they are collecting more bins than before. If you use the scheme correctly, you'll be getting exactly the same level of service as before. Because there is less waste going into your black bin - it doesn't (or shouldn't) need collecting weekly.
If you read my earlier rant in detail, you will see that my household already did all that the new scheme enforces before it came into being. As a result of our own personal circumstances coupled with the recycling and collection policy of the council, we still had a full black bin every week. Now the new policy is in place, nothing has actually changed for us except that the bin is collected less often and so I have to make my own arrangements for the rest.
steviebee said:
Why should someone who doesn't have a garden subsidise those that do?
I can kind of see the argument here, but I could argue that my extortionate council tax already subsidises large sections of the Bristol population, simply for chosing to live in a relatively nice area. The amount of money we're talking about isn't huge but I have made a decision not to pay it and instead continue to take any garden waste to the tip as we had to do before. It makes sense to me seeing as I'll have to be going anyway due to the rubbish situation.
steviebee said:
If used correctly, there should be no reason for extra trips to the tip.
Again, re-read my earlier post and see that I was already doing everything the new policy enforces before BCC came up with it, just to fit a week's worth of rubish into the bin. Now I need to fit 2 weeks' worth in and it just ain't going to happen.
steviebee said:
As I understand it, there's a plastic bottle bank within a mile of every home in Bristol.
How nice. Flotillas of private cars queueing at bottle banks. Very green. Not.
steviebee said:
No recycing service is ever going to suit everybody - it will always be a compromise.
Understood. It just pi55es me off that people like myself who have always tried to recycle as much as possible are effectively being penalised by the new scheme.
yertis said:
If you drive around the less consciencous parts of Bristol you'll see heaps of rubbish starting to build up on the pavements already.
Its only going to get worse.
I really want to take the irresponsible attitude in that last week when NONE of our rubbish was taken away becuase our bins were slightly open, and we had left some extra bags by the side, that I was just going to leave it until it just builds up.
Eventually, it'll become the councils problem (how the hell are they going to know which flat caused it?).
However, I didn't because I'm not like that.
However, many MANY Bristolians will not take kindly to the new plans, and will happily let the rubbish build up, through obstinance, or ignorance, and make it the councils problem.
I can see why it would work too - eventually the council would (should) pack in such a ridiculous plan (which they NEVER consulted anyone about - or if they did it was on Xmas day, down in the basement of a maky council building somewhere just so no-one went and objected) and start being sensible.
As Yertis said, the rediculous road blocks must cause more congestion etc - I've lost count of the times when I've sat for ten minutes waiting for the t
ts to back out of my old road...neil_cardiff said:
last week ... NONE of our rubbish was taken away becuase our bins were slightly open, and we had left some extra bags by the side
Grrr. That's a real wind up.
Ok, so extra bags aren't allowed. Just leave them then.
Ok, so the bin is supposed to be fully shut. Why FFS? What does it matter to the bin collector whether its open a few inches or not? Makes no odds. Fully open with a delicately balanced stack of bags teetering on top I can see would be a H&S issue, but to leave ALL the rubbish for a bin lid left ajar really smacks of pettiness.
pdV6 said:
neil_cardiff said:
last week ... NONE of our rubbish was taken away becuase our bins were slightly open, and we had left some extra bags by the side
Grrr. That's a real wind up.
Ok, so extra bags aren't allowed. Just leave them then.
Ok, so the bin is supposed to be fully shut. Why FFS? What does it matter to the bin collector whether its open a few inches or not? Makes no odds. Fully open with a delicately balanced stack of bags teetering on top I can see would be a H&S issue, but to leave ALL the rubbish for a bin lid left ajar really smacks of pettiness.
Without sounding up my own arse, but who are bin men to be deciding who does and does not get their rubbish picked up? I remember the days when binmen were binmen, and they were 'ard as nails - nothing was too much of a problem, and if you tipped em' at xmas, they didn't spend the next year banging your dustbin lids at 5 in the morning (my grandad used to do the tipping obviously).
Now, its all, oooh, I'm waste management operative and I can't lift anything over so and so, and oh, I forgot, I don't want to get up at five anymore, nor am I going to sweep the street either - its not 'my' job.
No
ing wonder people have no respect for them anymore. 
yertis said:
So, steviebee, have you got some useful feedback for your client?
I tell you what guys, this is actually really good feedback and I do appreciate the comments.
I may well open this up on a wider forum as I think there's some interesting stuff here.
As a parting salvo here, I'll leave you with this:
Everything that's been said here is not uncommon. Many other councils are or have gone through a similar process and faced similar opposition. The fact is that these schemes are needed and it has nothing to do with hitting targets, saving or making money. I'm no lefty enviro-mentalist (what would I be doing on PH if I were!!) but I have seen first hand the effect of excess waste is having. It's not just down to householders either. Manufacturers and retailers have a huge part to play - particulalry with packaging - and they are being pressured into doing something.
As I said before, no scheme is going to be 100% right for 100% of the people. All I would say is that the scheme you've got in Bristol is amongst the most efficient in the UK and you - like many others - will quickly get used to it.
It's just about changing the way you do things but as the ads say: Change is often a good thing!
steviebee said:
As I said before, no scheme is going to be 100% right for 100% of the people. All I would say is that the scheme you've got in Bristol is amongst the most efficient in the UK and you - like many others - will quickly get used to it.
Depends on your understanding of efficiency. To a mere simpleton like myself, it means doing the job needed for the cheapest cost. It does not mean doing half the job and leaving litter and crap all over our streets.
The fact that consultants need to be brought in to put a postiive spin on rubbish and crap being left outside peoples houses shows how bloody farcical the new scheme is.
If you want to reduce the amount of household waste you need to get the manufacturers and the supermarkets on board.
DAZ
dazren said:
If you want to reduce the amount of household waste you need to get the manufacturers and the supermarkets on board.
...and commit to recycling the "difficult" packaging! Ok it might not be cost effective for the council to recycle plastics other than bottles, but its certainly not cost effective for me to do it for them and I don't have a choice about how the produce is packaged.
In Germany people have taken to unpacking their newly purchased goods at the supermarket and leaving the rubbish there for them to deal with themselves.
I find the North Somerset recycling scheme far easier to use, just as effective, and we can put out normal amounts of real rubbish and it still gets taken away.
But if there's a way to faff something up Bristol City Council will find it.
I find the North Somerset recycling scheme far easier to use, just as effective, and we can put out normal amounts of real rubbish and it still gets taken away.
But if there's a way to faff something up Bristol City Council will find it.
pdV6 said:
[quote=yertis]In Germany people have taken to unpacking their newly purchased goods at the supermarket and leaving the rubbish there for them to deal with themselves.
Its a tempting option!
They have boxes in supermarkets for packaging to be put in (also in Belgium as well). I think it's some kind of a legal requirement. I have a vague recollection that it's a european directive that says that manufacturers are responsible for packaging therefore we should all be able to return it to them! Not entirely sure though and I can't be bothered to look it up!
In this country we're being harangued now for using too many poly-bags at supermarkets. Now, I can remember when we used to be able to use the big cardboard cartons for this function, a simple effective bit of recycling. I asked the other day why we can't do this anymore. The answer (of frigging course) was "Health and Safety - the boxes are a fire risk". FFS 
etc.
And I think they don't use cartons so much now anyway, which is a more realistic reason, but let's not let that get in the way of giving BCC another good shoe-ing.
What shall we have a go at next? The proposed redevelopment of the Centre or Showcase Bus Routes, for starters?
etc. And I think they don't use cartons so much now anyway, which is a more realistic reason, but let's not let that get in the way of giving BCC another good shoe-ing.
What shall we have a go at next? The proposed redevelopment of the Centre or Showcase Bus Routes, for starters?
neil_cardiff said:
yertis said:
What shall we have a go at next?
The proposed redevelopment of the Centre
Oooooooh, lets not get started on the magestic
up of the traffic due to this...Nor me. I'm out in it several times a day, most days with work.
Mind you, hats off to the guys doing the work. Thats a f
g big hole they've dug where Bond Street used to be!flooritforever said:
neil_cardiff said:
yertis said:
What shall we have a go at next?
The proposed redevelopment of the Centre
Oooooooh, lets not get started on the magestic
up of the traffic due to this...Nor me. I'm out in it several times a day, most days with work.
Mind you, hats off to the guys doing the work. Thats a f
g big hole they've dug where Bond Street used to be!Maybe it's a new landfill...
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