Engine Management / ECU Developers in York?
Discussion
A friend of mine contacted me today to say he has heard of a job which might be in my line; developing software and hardware for a new design of Engine Control Unit. Unhelpfully he seems to have lost the details! All he could remember was that it was supposedly with a "major group" (sounds like agencyspeak) and in York.
Now, I have scratched my head and can't think of any businesses in York who do automotive electronics or software development. Google can't find anything either, nor can Applegate or Yell.
Rather than spam it to the main groups, I thought I would try the local Forum first. Anyone got a clue for me to beat Google around the head with?
Cheers folks
Mike
I think there are a surprisingly large number around, but they don't have web presence.
Quite a few real time systems people, firm used to be called Northern Real Time Systems, based on the science park, are into the automotive stuff and there are quite a few of real time people around that it could be.
Unfortunately no names spring to mind at the moment. Have a look at this site, list the firms on the park: www.yorksciencepark.co.uk/metadot/index.pl?iid=2332&isa=Category
Quite a few real time systems people, firm used to be called Northern Real Time Systems, based on the science park, are into the automotive stuff and there are quite a few of real time people around that it could be.
Unfortunately no names spring to mind at the moment. Have a look at this site, list the firms on the park: www.yorksciencepark.co.uk/metadot/index.pl?iid=2332&isa=Category
Thanks guys! Most puzzling but I think we are getting there. I had a dig into all the tenants' lists but nothing likely seemed to appear. DTA appear to be in Salford now. I couldn't find Northern Real Time Systems, but Northern Real Time Applications and northern Real-Time Technology exist (or have in the recent past).
Northern Real-Time Technology (founded 1995), spun-off VolcanoAutomotive.com (now Borged into Mentor.com), the founders went on to start LiveDevices.com, who were bought by ETAS (April 2003) and still appear to have an office in York. So LiveDevices/ETAS seem to be the most likely people at the moment, although they don't appear to have any vacancies in the UK. Ironically, these real-time companies do seem rather ephemeral!
I have some additional info, it's definitely in York:
"Skills: Embedded C Software Engineers. York. Embedded C, RTOS, DSP,
Serial Comms, Device Drivers. This prestigious York client who are part
of a major Group, are looking for experienced Embedded C Software
Engineers with c2 years commercial Embedded C RTOS development
experience. You will develop infrastructure software and operating
system software for ECUs and automotive bespoke products over the full
project life cycle. You will enhance product developments and customise
existing product offerings...
Location: York, North Yorkshire"
(It's via an agency, and they may well think all YO postcodes are in York. I am reluctant to go through the agency if I can approach them directly, as I have had previous dealings with that particular Agency. "Arse" and "Elbow" come into it.)
Northern Real-Time Technology (founded 1995), spun-off VolcanoAutomotive.com (now Borged into Mentor.com), the founders went on to start LiveDevices.com, who were bought by ETAS (April 2003) and still appear to have an office in York. So LiveDevices/ETAS seem to be the most likely people at the moment, although they don't appear to have any vacancies in the UK. Ironically, these real-time companies do seem rather ephemeral!
I have some additional info, it's definitely in York:
"Skills: Embedded C Software Engineers. York. Embedded C, RTOS, DSP,
Serial Comms, Device Drivers. This prestigious York client who are part
of a major Group, are looking for experienced Embedded C Software
Engineers with c2 years commercial Embedded C RTOS development
experience. You will develop infrastructure software and operating
system software for ECUs and automotive bespoke products over the full
project life cycle. You will enhance product developments and customise
existing product offerings...
Location: York, North Yorkshire"
(It's via an agency, and they may well think all YO postcodes are in York. I am reluctant to go through the agency if I can approach them directly, as I have had previous dealings with that particular Agency. "Arse" and "Elbow" come into it.)
I'm thinking this is the job, so if this is a different agency, you might be in luck...
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:mwww.jobserve.com/WDFF0952620E9E515
If not, sorry; Google doesn't seem too much help on this one!
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:mwww.jobserve.com/WDFF0952620E9E515
If not, sorry; Google doesn't seem too much help on this one!
Zad said:
Hmm that has expired from the cache it seems. Ah well, cheers for the info anyway guys, I'll try dropping that place a speculative email. I suspect it may be to "pure" real time for my skills but worth a go.
Cheers!
Mike
It's just PH munging the URL up - the original one I grabbed still works... will mail you it.
That job description sounds very much like the engineer LiveDevices are trying to hire to fill the gap I left (I finished there this week!) - although they're recruiting at a much more junior level than I left at.
The company (as you discovered) used to be located in the Innovation Centre but moved out to Osbaldwick (just off the Hull Road, about half a mile before you get to the York ring road) three years ago.
I was there for about eight and a half years and ran one of the engineering teams there for the last five and a half, specialising in operating systems, networking, comms, and also providing bespoke engineering services.
The company's current focus is very much on development of operating systems and communications stacks (particularly on CANbus); it is DEEPLY involved in standards efforts like OSEK and AUTOSAR and is getting into tool-support for system design and configuration as well as embedded components.
It isn't somewhere that does "ECU development" - it builds software components for them; most of the ECU work inside Bosch is done in Germany. The customer base is largely other Bosch divisions but most of the Tier 1 OEMs and major automotive manufacturers buy from them. Historically most of the business has been powertrain, with some chassis and body electronics. If you're into control theory, engine maps, calibration etc. it's not the right place for you; if you understand how operating systems and networking protocols work, if you understand microcontrollers at an intimate level and if you have a good grasp of the underlying theory behind deterministic real-time systems, you'd be a good fit.
It isn't the right place for everyone. It was a great place to work when it was a small, independent company, but an attempt to diversify out of automotive and into embedded TCP/IP went wrong in late 2001 and instead of IPO'ing the company was sold. Now although York is very informal in a lot of respects there's quite a bit of big-company politics and bureaucracy that even the best management can't shield people from.
Livedevices currently specialises in:
- development of AUTOSAR components (runtime environment, communications components, operating system)
- development of system-configuration tools for these
- ongoing support and porting of existing OSEK products
- customer-funded bespoke engineering work
-
To succeed at Livedevices you need:
* To be seriously bright - Most of the developers have Masters or PhDs, and those that don't generally have firsts or 2(i)s. You'd be unlikely to be looked at without a good degree in computer science/electronic engineering or something very closely related.
* To have a pretty robust ego and a lot of self-confidence. There are few shrinking violets there!
* To be very quick on the uptake - it's a small development team and they'd expect someone new to start making a contribution from day one. You're not going to get weeks of training before you're let loose...
* To be willing to do your share of less exciting work - as well as the interesting new projects (new operating system, AUTOSAR tools etc) there's a lot of legacy and porting work. Everyone gets their share of it...
* To be versatile - as well as ultra-strong embedded C (and ideally a couple of assembly languages), any knowledge of C++ and Java would be useful on the tools side.
Ability to speak and read German would probably be fairly advantageous -- ETAS is predominantly a German group and Bosch is very much a German company.
The upside:
The engineering and management team consists of some of the brightest and most innovative people I've ever met. They are extremely sharp and are a good bunch of people -- and I'm not just saying that because of the Scotch I'm drinking courtesy of them as a leaving present ;P
It's such a small company that you'll be visible (conspicuous, even) from Day One. Plenty of room to succeed and carve out a niche for yourself.
Usual big-company bens - 28 days' holiday + bank hols, private health, life insurance etc, good pension scheme with very low management fees.
The downsides:
If you're after a job there because you're interested in cars, it's not for you. You might see the odd production ECU around, but they don't do much automotive application work.
The salary system is eccentric to say the least; basic salary is just about market rates, with a very substantial bonus on top, but after several years where a fair chunk of the bonus was "guaranteed", next year it's entirely dependent upon company and individual performance. You can make a decent amount, but there's a significant degree of risk!
If you just want to sit in the corner and hack code, this isn't the job for you. The development processes are highly rigorous and there's a very strong culture of peer review and thorough QA processes. Engineers also have a fair amount of contact with customers.
The company (as you discovered) used to be located in the Innovation Centre but moved out to Osbaldwick (just off the Hull Road, about half a mile before you get to the York ring road) three years ago.
I was there for about eight and a half years and ran one of the engineering teams there for the last five and a half, specialising in operating systems, networking, comms, and also providing bespoke engineering services.
The company's current focus is very much on development of operating systems and communications stacks (particularly on CANbus); it is DEEPLY involved in standards efforts like OSEK and AUTOSAR and is getting into tool-support for system design and configuration as well as embedded components.
It isn't somewhere that does "ECU development" - it builds software components for them; most of the ECU work inside Bosch is done in Germany. The customer base is largely other Bosch divisions but most of the Tier 1 OEMs and major automotive manufacturers buy from them. Historically most of the business has been powertrain, with some chassis and body electronics. If you're into control theory, engine maps, calibration etc. it's not the right place for you; if you understand how operating systems and networking protocols work, if you understand microcontrollers at an intimate level and if you have a good grasp of the underlying theory behind deterministic real-time systems, you'd be a good fit.
It isn't the right place for everyone. It was a great place to work when it was a small, independent company, but an attempt to diversify out of automotive and into embedded TCP/IP went wrong in late 2001 and instead of IPO'ing the company was sold. Now although York is very informal in a lot of respects there's quite a bit of big-company politics and bureaucracy that even the best management can't shield people from.
Livedevices currently specialises in:
- development of AUTOSAR components (runtime environment, communications components, operating system)
- development of system-configuration tools for these
- ongoing support and porting of existing OSEK products
- customer-funded bespoke engineering work
-
To succeed at Livedevices you need:
* To be seriously bright - Most of the developers have Masters or PhDs, and those that don't generally have firsts or 2(i)s. You'd be unlikely to be looked at without a good degree in computer science/electronic engineering or something very closely related.
* To have a pretty robust ego and a lot of self-confidence. There are few shrinking violets there!
* To be very quick on the uptake - it's a small development team and they'd expect someone new to start making a contribution from day one. You're not going to get weeks of training before you're let loose...
* To be willing to do your share of less exciting work - as well as the interesting new projects (new operating system, AUTOSAR tools etc) there's a lot of legacy and porting work. Everyone gets their share of it...
* To be versatile - as well as ultra-strong embedded C (and ideally a couple of assembly languages), any knowledge of C++ and Java would be useful on the tools side.
Ability to speak and read German would probably be fairly advantageous -- ETAS is predominantly a German group and Bosch is very much a German company.
The upside:
The engineering and management team consists of some of the brightest and most innovative people I've ever met. They are extremely sharp and are a good bunch of people -- and I'm not just saying that because of the Scotch I'm drinking courtesy of them as a leaving present ;P
It's such a small company that you'll be visible (conspicuous, even) from Day One. Plenty of room to succeed and carve out a niche for yourself.
Usual big-company bens - 28 days' holiday + bank hols, private health, life insurance etc, good pension scheme with very low management fees.
The downsides:
If you're after a job there because you're interested in cars, it's not for you. You might see the odd production ECU around, but they don't do much automotive application work.
The salary system is eccentric to say the least; basic salary is just about market rates, with a very substantial bonus on top, but after several years where a fair chunk of the bonus was "guaranteed", next year it's entirely dependent upon company and individual performance. You can make a decent amount, but there's a significant degree of risk!
If you just want to sit in the corner and hack code, this isn't the job for you. The development processes are highly rigorous and there's a very strong culture of peer review and thorough QA processes. Engineers also have a fair amount of contact with customers.
Zad said:
Northern Real-Time Technology (founded 1995), spun-off VolcanoAutomotive.com (now Borged into Mentor.com), the founders went on to start LiveDevices.com, who were bought by ETAS (April 2003) and still appear to have an office in York. So LiveDevices/ETAS seem to be the most likely people at the moment, although they don't appear to have any vacancies in the UK. Ironically, these real-time companies do seem rather ephemeral!
History's not quite right there. NRTT and Volcano both spun out of the same project at Volvo, and did share some directors early on, but were very much separate companies and rapidly went their own way - VCT (which is as you say now part of Mentor) specialised more in CAN and LIN communications, NRTT was more an operating systems company. Livedevices was originally the embedded internet brand of NRTT (Realogy was the operating systems brand), but everything was branded Livedevices at some point when I was slaving away of customer projects and didn't notice (early 2003?) The founders left at various times - two of them several years before the ETAS takeover and two of them after it. Livedevices has been part of the ETAS group since April 2003.
First of all, hello Pete and welcome to PistonHeads!
I knew PH would come up with an answer, it has a slightly spooky habit of doing that. I get the feeling that if someone wanted to know Ayrton Senna's roll bar settings for the 1992 Monaco GP, not only would someone have the settings, but 5 minutes later the engineer himself would appear and tell everyone how it wasn't quite like that.
Anyway, back to LiveDevices. It's a good job they are recruiting at a more junior level then, otherwise I'd not stand a chance. Still, I don't have much CANbus experience so I won't waste their time applying. It sounds like I would miss their targets in several areas.
I had hoped it would be a hardware/software development house but the Yorkshire electronics development community is fairly small and I know most of the employers, which is why I was baffled when this came up. I generally work with embedded systems, both on the hardware and software side (plus RF, analogue, PSUs and stuff too convoluted to go into here). This is good for small/medium sized companies, which tend to integrate several functions in a smallish facility, but the larger blue-chips prefer people to specialise in tiny little areas. I had envisaged a company that perhaps built management systems for industrial power units or similar.
Being of the generation that was brought up assembler on ZX81s I know a fair few processors (of various sizes ) to a uselessly stupid degree, but can probably be outgeeked by most of the employees. I imagine my concept of a real time OS would be laughed down the road by them too. Big-company politics is one of the big reasons I work for myself, I find politics futile and a waste of energy. There are some things worth stressing about in life, but office politics isn't one of them.
My BSc.(Hons.) is in I.T., unfortunately I.T. has changed meaning since I got it in the early 90s. Now it is usually taken to mean business systems but back then (jeez, I'm feeling old!) it was much more broad based. The M.Sc.(Eng.) is in Radio Comms, which is much more self explanitory. No PhD alas. The "robust" culture seems rather ominous. I'm used to professional engineers being honest and objective, it sounds rather cliquey.
I have C and various assembler coming out of my ears (and messy it is too) but little C++ and Java. I also suspect 2 years of German I did nearly 20 years ago probably wouldn't be quite enough! Eccentric salaries seem to be endemic in the industry. Pace Electronics in Saltaire have one, as do Filtronic next door. Both based more on how much you get on with your manager than your ability. Come to think of it, it does sound quite a lot like Filtronic in several ways. Over the years I have been for 3 interviews there, each time I was interrogated on the PhD engineer's specific subject rather than anything in the job spec, and 3 times I came away feeling less than useless (University spinoffs do seem to be like this). Needless to say I don't apply for jobs there any more (or Pace - similar reasons). No wonder the jobs lists and recruitment companies are forever advertising them.
This is probably getting a bit like a personal waffle now, so if you want to followup it is probably best to email me (it should be in my profile - if not then pester me).
Cheers,
Mike
I knew PH would come up with an answer, it has a slightly spooky habit of doing that. I get the feeling that if someone wanted to know Ayrton Senna's roll bar settings for the 1992 Monaco GP, not only would someone have the settings, but 5 minutes later the engineer himself would appear and tell everyone how it wasn't quite like that.
Anyway, back to LiveDevices. It's a good job they are recruiting at a more junior level then, otherwise I'd not stand a chance. Still, I don't have much CANbus experience so I won't waste their time applying. It sounds like I would miss their targets in several areas.
I had hoped it would be a hardware/software development house but the Yorkshire electronics development community is fairly small and I know most of the employers, which is why I was baffled when this came up. I generally work with embedded systems, both on the hardware and software side (plus RF, analogue, PSUs and stuff too convoluted to go into here). This is good for small/medium sized companies, which tend to integrate several functions in a smallish facility, but the larger blue-chips prefer people to specialise in tiny little areas. I had envisaged a company that perhaps built management systems for industrial power units or similar.
Being of the generation that was brought up assembler on ZX81s I know a fair few processors (of various sizes ) to a uselessly stupid degree, but can probably be outgeeked by most of the employees. I imagine my concept of a real time OS would be laughed down the road by them too. Big-company politics is one of the big reasons I work for myself, I find politics futile and a waste of energy. There are some things worth stressing about in life, but office politics isn't one of them.
My BSc.(Hons.) is in I.T., unfortunately I.T. has changed meaning since I got it in the early 90s. Now it is usually taken to mean business systems but back then (jeez, I'm feeling old!) it was much more broad based. The M.Sc.(Eng.) is in Radio Comms, which is much more self explanitory. No PhD alas. The "robust" culture seems rather ominous. I'm used to professional engineers being honest and objective, it sounds rather cliquey.
I have C and various assembler coming out of my ears (and messy it is too) but little C++ and Java. I also suspect 2 years of German I did nearly 20 years ago probably wouldn't be quite enough! Eccentric salaries seem to be endemic in the industry. Pace Electronics in Saltaire have one, as do Filtronic next door. Both based more on how much you get on with your manager than your ability. Come to think of it, it does sound quite a lot like Filtronic in several ways. Over the years I have been for 3 interviews there, each time I was interrogated on the PhD engineer's specific subject rather than anything in the job spec, and 3 times I came away feeling less than useless (University spinoffs do seem to be like this). Needless to say I don't apply for jobs there any more (or Pace - similar reasons). No wonder the jobs lists and recruitment companies are forever advertising them.
This is probably getting a bit like a personal waffle now, so if you want to followup it is probably best to email me (it should be in my profile - if not then pester me).
Cheers,
Mike
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