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ViperPict
Original Poster
8,424 posts
106 months
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Humper said: AML said: BUT...... What is your being 20 mins late compared with a fatal accident?
Pull over. You miss the point, i wouldn't be 20 mins late, i'd be a day late. Out of driving hours? 9 hours min break. Would YOU do it? In some US states, if you're holding up more than 5 vehicles behind you, you are legally obliged to pull over at the nextopportunity. Makes great sense to me as impatience being help up in traffic, rightly or wrongly, is one of main causes of accidents. Plus there are FAR too many HGVs that their need to be on trunk roads.
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a11y_m
1,594 posts
91 months
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craig-A said: I know the A9 very well, it's not a bad road, just not a very good one, unfortunately it's made worse by poor driving. +1 It's not the road that causes the problems, it's almost exclusively driver behaviour. I regularly travel from Falkirk to Fort William and always use the A9/A86: it's easier to make progress and much more flowing (easier to keep speed up and not having to brake forc corners) compared to the A84/A85/A82. IMO the 40mph limit for HGVs is annoyingly restrictive. I can't think of any part between Perth and Dalwhinnie where 50mph wouldn't be unsafe, but I guess that's the blanket law. In my campervan (VW T5-based, 2.6t) I'm restricted to 50mph single-carriageway and 60mph dual-carriageway but it seems most drivers are unaware of that judging by the a  holes that sit up my chuff on a lot of sections. And annoyingly my campervan is smaller/lighter than some cars yet they're not restricted in the same way. The law sucks sometimes.
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ViperPict
Original Poster
8,424 posts
106 months
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As horribly ironic as it is, I know someone who was on the bus that hit the van at Ralia on Fri. Badly broken leg and smashed knee. The sooner it's dualled and ridiculous junctions like that are removed the better.
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paulqv
2,385 posts
64 months
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I sympathise with the HGV drivers. They frequently are working to a very tight timetable and it is not practical for them to waste time pulling over if it means they exceed their drivers hours. That would cause problems with their employers and possibly result in them loosing their job.
We all need to be patient and if someone is driving at the speed limit or very near it in clear conditions then their driving is unobjectionable.
Problems are that many vehicles are not subject to drivers hours or indeed the Working time directive. i ran a fatal accident inquiry in Perth a few years ago with a small car/van driver fell asleep and got killed as did others. He was an agency driver and not subject to regs. ROSPA were useless and wouldn’t help or get involved. A single lane 'main trunk' road is dangerous. The Ayr/Stranraer road possibly has as much commercial traffic but less fatalities. Clearly shows there is something badly wrong with the A9
What we need is more traffic cars on the road dealing with dangerous or bad drving and forgetting about speeding as the main issue to be concerned about
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JM
1,788 posts
75 months
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AML said: There is nothing more galling than coming up behind a queue of dawdling cars that seem to have forgotten how to overtake. By saying they have forgotten you are implying they once knew or were taught. I doubt very much that either applies. Another example of the low driving standard required in this country.
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47p2
364 posts
30 months
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a11y_m said: IMO the 40mph limit for HGVs is annoyingly restrictive. I can't think of any part between Perth and Dalwhinnie where 50mph wouldn't be unsafe, but I guess that's the blanket law. Never known an HGV to collect a speeding ticket for sitting at 50mph on the A9 The police are well aware of the problems and do allow a bit of HGV discretion, I used to travel the road 3 or 4 days every week for over 7 years and never once was pulled for sitting at just a tad under 60mph... (pre speed limiter days)
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Reeso
898 posts
120 months
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I know the A9 from Perth through to Inverness very well.
I personally think it is a great road when there is no traffic (5am for example), however, put a load or tourists on it(both foreign & domestic), it is a nightmare! As someone said above, drivers have seemed to have forgotten the skills needed to overtake, look in their mirrors, judge speed & distance and gererally drive to a decent and/or considerate standard!!
As for HGV's limited to 40mph (as someone said above I think).....I've seen loads do a lot more than that!!!
Yes, dueling it would make it better in removing some of the dreadfull junctions that are currently there which would definately be a good thing.....But all it will mean is you will have 2 lanes of solid traffic as the lorries try to race each other (which I have seen) and/or take about 5miles to overtake a caravan!!!
At the end of the day, it's a road like any other...it's just the drivers on it that make it either a good road or a killer!!!
IMHO
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47p2
364 posts
30 months
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Of course if it was made duel carriageway all the way from Perth to Inverness we would end up with the same mentality as the M8 commuters who like to hog the outside lane for the entire length of their journey
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Humper
404 posts
31 months
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47p2 said: Never known an HGV to collect a speeding ticket for sitting at 50mph on the A9 Well, up until £120 quid ago this year the f kers didn't bother with seatbelts in wagons either, on a road like the A9 i'm VERY careful as points really don't make prizes
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BonzoG
1,312 posts
83 months
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paulqv said: The Ayr/Stranraer road possibly has as much commercial traffic but less fatalities. I'd love to see the statistics but I think this is a very good point, and can at least partly vouch for it. We send vehicles over from Cairnryan 6 days a week and rarely (if ever) are they ever caught up in or witness to the aftermath of anything like you see on the A9. Yet the A77 also has a reputation as a 'killer road'. Sure, it's not the best of roads, and you do get the odd mental Irish trucker with a dodgy limiter, but on the whole it's a nice journey. On the way back up during the day, 'private' traffic is still quite low volume and overtaking opportunities (like the new crawler lanes out of Ballantrae) are cleverly placed to reduce temptation in the riskier areas. I'm kicking myself for even daring to suggest it, but I wonder if SPECS on the A9 would calm people down? As an alternative to fixed/mobile cash machines on the overtaking spots, not as a complement. I personally doubt it, as I'd imagine the majority of accidents on the A9 are down to lane confusion, misjudging speed at junctions and overtaking f kups, rather than outright excess speed. But perhaps giving people a bit of leeway on the safer overtaking spots (rather than plonking a laser trap in them as they do now  ) might alleviate things elsewhere...
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KB_S1
5,938 posts
98 months
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The A77 used to be much worse, especially between Ayr/Glasgow. Now that it is mostly dualled and has proper junctions it isn't bad. The SPECS makes it an awkward drive.
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Bohally
812 posts
16 months
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It had its fair share of idiots yesterday anyway, probably half pissed coming back from Rockness.
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ViperPict
Original Poster
8,424 posts
106 months
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Clivew
191 posts
44 months
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Mmm... Strange that the Scottish Govt. announce this the day after the anti-independance campaign starts.
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ViperPict
Original Poster
8,424 posts
106 months
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Clivew said: Mmm... Strange that the Scottish Govt. announce this the day after the anti-independance campaign starts. I would say coincidence as they are not making any sort of song and dance about it. But even if it was, I'm all for it if it means that s te road gets improved.
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drangular
190 posts
30 months
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drangular said: The SNP minority Government did try to stop the tram project and I'm sure it had plans for the dualling of the A9 when elected in 2007. It's proposals were defeated however. This from Wikipedia:-
"The future of the Edinburgh Trams project came under threat in 2007 when the Scottish National Party (SNP) published in its manifesto for the Scottish Parliamentary election its intention to cancel the scheme, along with the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link, in order to save a total of £1.1bn.
In the debate on the Government's Transport program various opposition politicians made statements defending the Edinburgh Trams project. In particular, Labour MSP Wendy Alexander said "The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change claimed that the costs were out of control, but they are not."[19]
Following a vote which it lost in the Scottish Parliament, the SNP-led minority Scottish Government agreed to continue with the line from the Airport to Leith on condition that no more public money would be supplied if the project overran. A report by Audit Scotland, commissioned by the Scottish Government, confirmed that the cost projections were sound.[20][21]
Initial costs for the scheme were £498 million, with £375 million funding from the Scottish Government and £45 million by Edinburgh council.[22]
On 25 October 2007 the City of Edinburgh Council gave approval to the Final Business Case. Approval was given by the Council[23] on 22 December 2007 for tie to sign contracts with CAF[24] for the supply of the vehicles and BBS (a consortium of Siemens and Bilfinger Berger)[25] for the design, construction and building of the network. Contract negotiations were concluded in April 2008 with construction of the network commencing in June 2008.[26]"
The project is and Edinburgh Council one not a Scottish Government one.
I think it's fair to say that the SNP Scottish Government elected in 2011 inherited the mess and has tried to ensure that it is completed to a reasonable standard.
I'm fairly sure the SNP have always supported the dualling of the A9 and it is now in the Transport Spending Plan. However as we know all capital spending is severely curtailed at present and will be for the foreseeable future. As I said before it has been the SNP Scottish Governments policy since prior to the election in 2007 to dual the A9. However being in a minority government and in view of the tight squeeze on spending and other priorities this could not be progressed during the 2007-2011 term. The current SNP administration had the dualling of the A9 in the manifesto and made it part of the capital spending plans announced in November 2011. The most recent announcement was about bringing the project forward and starting construction in 2015 rather than 2017. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-is...
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AML
167 posts
99 months
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Perhaps if we keep banging on about it maybe it'll be brought forward another 2 years.
I wish!
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Leithen
2,769 posts
136 months
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Whilst any improvement is a good thing, it sounds like this is about dualling only and nothing about improving the junctions. Just as the A90 has shown, without slip roads and flyovers at the busiest junctions the road will remain lethal.
I just wish the bloody politicians would show some ambition here. The North of Scotland needs and deserves a motorway. It's as simple as that.
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ViperPict
Original Poster
8,424 posts
106 months
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Leithen said: Whilst any improvement is a good thing, it sounds like this is about dualling only and nothing about improving the junctions. Just as the A90 has shown, without slip roads and flyovers at the busiest junctions the road will remain lethal.
I just wish the bloody politicians would show some ambition here. The North of Scotland needs and deserves a motorway. It's as simple as that. I'd hope that dualling means that you'll have less juntions where vehicles are turning right across on-coming traffic on a single lane, stopping everything behind them.
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matchmaker
3,256 posts
69 months
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ViperPict said: Leithen said: Whilst any improvement is a good thing, it sounds like this is about dualling only and nothing about improving the junctions. Just as the A90 has shown, without slip roads and flyovers at the busiest junctions the road will remain lethal.
I just wish the bloody politicians would show some ambition here. The North of Scotland needs and deserves a motorway. It's as simple as that. I'd hope that dualling means that you'll have less juntions where vehicles are turning right across on-coming traffic on a single lane, stopping everything behind them. Speaking from bitter experience, of course, VP!
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