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JM
1,788 posts
75 months
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Gareth135R said: Fact is, non OF fans want Gers out. Nothing to do with Sporting Integrity. It's so there's more chance to win something. This could only be a 3 year opportunity if Gers were to make it back from 3rd Division...but staying in SPL is likely anyway. Are Rangers Football Club plc (IA) not being liquidated? Do The Rangers Football Club have any players, a manager or 3 years of accounts? What league do The Rangers Football Club play in? The RFC plc (IA) players registrations transfer to the SFA in the event of liquidation, so they are 'free agents'. Any club wishing to join the SPL has to be eligible to play in the league (with reference to SFA membership, stadia criteria etc). If a club has no players, no manager etc how can it be elligible to play in any league never mind the premier league in the country it intends to play in? The position for the newco T/A The Rangers Football Club is that they have to sign and register players and staff, join a league that will accept them, trade for three years, then apply to join the SFA and apply to joing the league structure. Or appeal to the goodwill of all the clubs they have cheated for the last 10+ years to allow them to short-cut some stages. Or else they could buy an existing club and take them over and move them to Ibrox etc. The clu would then start in the league the purchased club play in.
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cardigankid
5,950 posts
81 months
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onlynik said: Rangers nor Celtic are the savior of Scottish football, I'd actually like to see Rangers join the English league setup. So would most of the support plus all of the previous owners in living memory. The English Premiership are not interested. The independence thing will be decided by democratic vote and we shall all accept the result whether we agree or not, but this has to make you ask, what has Scotland got out of having an independent football league? Nothing. If the Scottish teams were in a UK league both Rangers and Celtic would be regularly playing against all the top teams in the UK, and the standard of football would be far better. When will a Scottish player next play in the World Cup? Never?
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bikerPaul
883 posts
79 months
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Gareth135R said: Some good valid points on here.
Fact is, non OF fans want Gers out. I'm sure that there are a minority who do want Rangers out but in the main that is simply b  t and paranoia more associated with your East End rivals. The majority of fans i know simply want to see Rangers punished in line with what has happened to others in a similar position before to prove, maybe once and for all, that the SFA isn't the OF biased organisation that it is perceived to be.
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KB_S1
5,938 posts
98 months
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^^ How can RFC be punished in line with others before? They do not exist anymore.
The people that committed the offences have nothing to do with the new club.
Who would be punished?
The decision to be made is what case is to be made for a new club making an extra ordinary application to join the league structure.
The new club cannot be punished for something a different club did surely?
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OlberJ
11,954 posts
102 months
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Thats true but they cant have it both ways. If they leave everything behind, it has to mean everything.
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shambolic
720 posts
36 months
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bikerPaul said: I'm sure that there are a minority who do want Rangers out but in the main that is simply b t and paranoia more associated with your East End rivals. The majority of fans i know simply want to see Rangers punished in line with what has happened to others in a similar position before to prove, maybe once and for all, that the SFA isn't the OF biased organisation that it is perceived to be. Rangers can't be punished going forward as they don't exist. It SHOULD be the case that there is a new team wanting to join the SFL in Division 3! The same if I suddenly decided to start up club and apply to join. We all know though that with the OLD Rangers being the establishment team, then everything will become to try and con us into thinking this NEW company are one and the same. If this happens then they must be punished. But it can't as punishments dies with old club and new club has no baggage but must start Scottish football as a new club at the bottom. Ps I'm not paranoid but I do posses a cracking T shirt! Lol 
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shambolic
720 posts
36 months
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JM said: Are Rangers Football Club plc (IA) not being liquidated?
Do The Rangers Football Club have any players, a manager or 3 years of accounts?
What league do The Rangers Football Club play in?
The RFC plc (IA) players registrations transfer to the SFA in the event of liquidation, so they are 'free agents'.
Any club wishing to join the SPL has to be eligible to play in the league (with reference to SFA membership, stadia criteria etc). If a club has no players, no manager etc how can it be elligible to play in any league never mind the premier league in the country it intends to play in?
The position for the newco T/A The Rangers Football Club is that they have to sign and register players and staff, join a league that will accept them, trade for three years, then apply to join the SFA and apply to joing the league structure. Or appeal to the goodwill of all the clubs they have cheated for the last 10+ years to allow them to short-cut some stages.
Or else they could buy an existing club and take them over and move them to Ibrox etc. The clu would then start in the league the purchased club play in. All of this!
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bikerPaul
883 posts
79 months
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shambolic said: Stuff! Agree 100% Oh, and love the t-shirt. 
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sherman
Original Poster
5,460 posts
84 months
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KB_S1
5,938 posts
98 months
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SPL will be exciting over the next 4 years then....
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OlberJ
11,954 posts
102 months
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That's a bit optimistic, who says you'll make it back up at all  On a serious note, statement on the Rangers website stating that the SPL2 proposal, which includes SevCo, will still be getting pursued. Doncaster and Regan to get voted out if they do?
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KB_S1
5,938 posts
98 months
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How would it work?
Would any Div 1 team then join after just voting as they have?
That would blow the sporting integrity claim clean out.
I suppose the SPL guys are just terrified of what a league with no TV deal means nowadays.
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emicen
5,691 posts
87 months
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Bit late to the party but from the top: Large proportion of the notional tax debt unsubstantiated and courtesy of turning down Rangers offer to drop their contest to HMRC's case, HMRC still dont have a win against an RT set up and will not be able to pursue the English PL clubs using the same systems. Pragmatism in the public sector, ho hum... SPL2 is nonsense and couldnt possibly be implemented in time, never mind who would join when the clubs have already shown en masse they dont want Rangers in the second tier. How the f k did this become about Scottish independence, oh, hi Viperpict... Blah blah blah sporting integrity blah blah, that one's been doing the rounds a lot today. Well off the top of my head, Dundee as a replacement administrated twice jog on, Motherwell 2003, Pacific 595 Ltd Celtic to win the SPL next year, Hearts to go down next? I'm trying to find a bookies to lay down a bet on how many SPL clubs belly up next season.
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emicen
5,691 posts
87 months
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KB_S1 said: Then we move to Celtic. How many good foreign professionals will want to play for Celtic if there is no Rangers?
There is little chance of international coaches looking a them for selection if all they are doing is playing SPL games with no Rangers challenge. I was at Killie vs Motherwell last year. Dunno what you're talking about. It was a rivetting game, non-stop excitement and ball skills were certainly equal to the Old Firm. Or maybe it was dire and I was grateful of the free beer and abuse getting launched at McColl for that mullet!
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ninja-lewis
1,893 posts
59 months
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emicen said: Bit late to the party but from the top:
Large proportion of the notional tax debt unsubstantiated and courtesy of turning down Rangers offer to drop their contest to HMRC's case, HMRC still dont have a win against an RT set up and will not be able to pursue the English PL clubs using the same systems. Pragmatism in the public sector, ho hum... Oh dear, another supporter who has swallowed the lies of the West Coast media. The EBT case was substantiated - there was nothing notional about it. That's why HMRC slapped them with a tax bill in the first place (in tax tribunals, it's up to you to show why HMRC have got it wrong). At no point did Rangers "offer to drop their contest". The EBT tribunal will still return a verdict even after liquidation, not that HMRC are in need of precedent here.
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emicen
5,691 posts
87 months
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ninja-lewis said: emicen said: Bit late to the party but from the top:
Large proportion of the notional tax debt unsubstantiated and courtesy of turning down Rangers offer to drop their contest to HMRC's case, HMRC still dont have a win against an RT set up and will not be able to pursue the English PL clubs using the same systems. Pragmatism in the public sector, ho hum... Oh dear, another supporter who has swallowed the lies of the West Coast media. The EBT case was substantiated - there was nothing notional about it. That's why HMRC slapped them with a tax bill in the first place (in tax tribunals, it's up to you to show why HMRC have got it wrong). At no point did Rangers "offer to drop their contest". The EBT tribunal will still return a verdict even after liquidation, not that HMRC are in need of precedent here. Oh look another tabloid reader turned tax expert. The value of the HMRC debt is entirely notional as the EBT element of it is not defined as they haven't won the court battle.
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ViperPict
8,424 posts
106 months
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emicen said: Bit late to the party but from the top: Large proportion of the notional tax debt unsubstantiated and courtesy of turning down Rangers offer to drop their contest to HMRC's case, HMRC still dont have a win against an RT set up and will not be able to pursue the English PL clubs using the same systems. Pragmatism in the public sector, ho hum... SPL2 is nonsense and couldnt possibly be implemented in time, never mind who would join when the clubs have already shown en masse they dont want Rangers in the second tier. How the f k did this become about Scottish independence, oh, hi Viperpict... Blah blah blah sporting integrity blah blah, that one's been doing the rounds a lot today. Well off the top of my head, Dundee as a replacement administrated twice jog on, Motherwell 2003, Pacific 595 Ltd Celtic to win the SPL next year, Hearts to go down next? I'm trying to find a bookies to lay down a bet on how many SPL clubs belly up next season. Has it become about Scottish independence?! If it has, nothing to do we with me. Unless you would care to tell me otherwise...
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ninja-lewis
1,893 posts
59 months
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emicen said: Oh look another tabloid reader turned tax expert. The value of the HMRC debt is entirely notional as the EBT element of it is not defined as they haven't won the court battle. Nope, you don't understand how tax tribunals work. It is up to HMRC to work out whether you have complied with tax law. If you haven't, they send you a bill after they've worked out what tax should've paid, the interest on that tax and suitable penalty for not paying it in the first place. The taxpayer appeal that bill to a tax tribunal but it is up to the taxpayer to show why it is incorrect. Until, and unless, the taxpayer manage to convince the tribunal, they are still liable to pay the bill. This isn't an "innocent until proven guilty" procedure - it's a system of post-conviction appeal. Hence why HMRC's vote at the CVA meeting was for the full value of the debt owed to them - £94,426,217.22 to be exact. Incidentally that £94,426,217.22 isn't entirely the EBT case either. £18,324,285.42 relates to withheld Income Tax, National Insurance and VAT payments that Craig Whyte used to prop up the club to put off administration for a big longer (had he not done so Rangers wouldn't have got to the end of season and we wouldn't be talking about them getting back into Scottish football at all). There can be no dispute that these payments were not due to HMRC. £3,052,481.67 relates to the Discounted Option Scheme case (also known as the Wee Tax Case). Like the EBT case, RFC plc (iA) challenged the bill at the tax tribunal and failed. So again there can be no dispute about this bill being due either. Fundamentally RFC plc (iA) incompetently and deliberately operated multiple tax evasion schemes over an extensive period of time to deprive the Treasury of lawful tax payments.
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Robsti
4,530 posts
75 months
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How long before newco go into administration playing in the 3rd division?
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KB_S1
5,938 posts
98 months
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^^ Well the SFA are apparently meeting soon to discuss what punishments they will be handing out to New Rangers.
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