Who is bogging off after the YES vote?
Discussion
ViperPict said:
I have never seen any prediction of the costs to replace Trident being £20BN over 20 years!!! Seems likely it'll be well over £100BN. I can wave my willy for much less than that...
It's in the white paper that came from the Strategic Defence Review: "The Future of the UK's Strategic Nuclear Deterrent". House of Commons Defence Committee. 30 June 2006. Here's the link:http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/...
Clearly most of the money would be spent in the UK, building the new submarines and upgrading the necessary infrastructure. An independent Scotland would certainly avoid its share of the cost, but equally well would not benefit from the associated stimulus to its industries and employment.
You may well find that waving your willy around is a great deal cheaper than either estimate. I'm not sure to what extent it would provide a stimulus to local employment, though?
Gaspode said:
ViperPict said:
I have never seen any prediction of the costs to replace Trident being £20BN over 20 years!!! Seems likely it'll be well over £100BN. I can wave my willy for much less than that...
It's in the white paper that came from the Strategic Defence Review: "The Future of the UK's Strategic Nuclear Deterrent". House of Commons Defence Committee. 30 June 2006. Here's the link:http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/...
Clearly most of the money would be spent in the UK, building the new submarines and upgrading the necessary infrastructure. An independent Scotland would certainly avoid its share of the cost, but equally well would not benefit from the associated stimulus to its industries and employment.
You may well find that waving your willy around is a great deal cheaper than either estimate. I'm not sure to what extent it would provide a stimulus to local employment, though?
ViperPict said:
So 8 years old then...
..which is why I doubled the estimate for my analysis. Usual metric is given average inflation and economic growth, prices double every ten years.But at least I can back up my arguments with references. Where do you get your "facts" from?
Edited by Gaspode on Friday 15th August 22:05
ViperPict said:
Vote no at our peril...
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/we...
'Bumbling' Boris already 'accidentally' let the cat out of the bag...
Are you leaving the UK after the no vote to avoid anymore suffering?http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/we...
'Bumbling' Boris already 'accidentally' let the cat out of the bag...
OlberJ said:
That's pretty naive. These are direct employees, and the number will be variable dependant on operations - how accurate do you really think the info will be on number of people working at one of the UKs highest security facilities?Look at Grangemouth - employs what, ~1500 people in total, but the loss of these jobs, local contactors, support services, plus the knock on effect on the local community and even that region of Scotland was acknowledged by all to be very significant.
ViperPict said:
Vote no at our peril...
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/we...
'Bumbling' Boris already 'accidentally' let the cat out of the bag...
Project McFear indeed..http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/we...
'Bumbling' Boris already 'accidentally' let the cat out of the bag...
I've noticed that people with Yes stickers on their cars are horrible drivers.
Sitting in the outside lane until last minute whilst overtaking nobody, cutting in, tailgating.
Not just once either, noticed this a few times in the last few weeks.
If a no vote forces some of these drivers overseas, then I'm all for it.
Sitting in the outside lane until last minute whilst overtaking nobody, cutting in, tailgating.
Not just once either, noticed this a few times in the last few weeks.
If a no vote forces some of these drivers overseas, then I'm all for it.
CraigV6 said:
I've noticed that people with Yes stickers on their cars are horrible drivers.
Sitting in the outside lane until last minute whilst overtaking nobody, cutting in, tailgating.
Not just once either, noticed this a few times in the last few weeks.
If a no vote forces some of these drivers overseas, then I'm all for it.
Looking at the demographic of "Twibbons" on Facebook amongst my contacts list, there is a very obvious trend towards those who are on benefits/were less bright at school than most/haven't had much education/do not run businesses or hold positions of responsibility professionally having "YES" logos on their profile pictures.Sitting in the outside lane until last minute whilst overtaking nobody, cutting in, tailgating.
Not just once either, noticed this a few times in the last few weeks.
If a no vote forces some of these drivers overseas, then I'm all for it.
jamieduff1981 said:
Looking at the demographic of "Twibbons" on Facebook amongst my contacts list, there is a very obvious trend towards those who are on benefits/were less bright at school than most/haven't had much education/do not run businesses or hold positions of responsibility professionally having "YES" logos on their profile pictures.
Contentious. But true from my experience, too! 
findlay_MX said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Looking at the demographic of "Twibbons" on Facebook amongst my contacts list, there is a very obvious trend towards those who are on benefits/were less bright at school than most/haven't had much education/do not run businesses or hold positions of responsibility professionally having "YES" logos on their profile pictures.
Contentious. But true from my experience, too! gwm said:
Barely seen any No stickers, so hard to say, but generally agree that it's less educated / sponger types that I know voting Yes. This includes people who are educated, but still not contributing much to society.
As a long term lurker / observer this is one of the reasons why I haven't signed up / posted until now, I feel some people post absolute nonsense and it all ends up in a mud slinging match. However after reading the 3 posts above I felt I had to sign up. Would any of you care to back up your general sweeping statements and maybe educate me? I'd love to know what educated / elevated positions in society you all hold that enables you to look down on the rest of society and judge. gym, what would you class as educated but not contributing much to society? Doctor, teacher, nurse, fireman???
As an aside, I know 3 extremely wealthy individuals that are degree educated, however because of family money don't work. I'd say in that respect they don't contribute a huge amount to society (compared to a doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman). They are firm no voters. Does this mean all educated/wealthy people are no voters or is it only the ones who don't contribute to society?
k2sherpa said:
findlay_MX said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Looking at the demographic of "Twibbons" on Facebook amongst my contacts list, there is a very obvious trend towards those who are on benefits/were less bright at school than most/haven't had much education/do not run businesses or hold positions of responsibility professionally having "YES" logos on their profile pictures.
Contentious. But true from my experience, too! gwm said:
Barely seen any No stickers, so hard to say, but generally agree that it's less educated / sponger types that I know voting Yes. This includes people who are educated, but still not contributing much to society.
As a long term lurker / observer this is one of the reasons why I haven't signed up / posted until now, I feel some people post absolute nonsense and it all ends up in a mud slinging match. However after reading the 3 posts above I felt I had to sign up. Would any of you care to back up your general sweeping statements and maybe educate me? I'd love to know what educated / elevated positions in society you all hold that enables you to look down on the rest of society and judge. gym, what would you class as educated but not contributing much to society? Doctor, teacher, nurse, fireman???
As an aside, I know 3 extremely wealthy individuals that are degree educated, however because of family money don't work. I'd say in that respect they don't contribute a huge amount to society (compared to a doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman). They are firm no voters. Does this mean all educated/wealthy people are no voters or is it only the ones who don't contribute to society?
Group ABC1 - No 49%, Yes 25%, Dont know 26%
A - Higher managerial, administrative or professional
B - Intermediate managerial, administrative or professional
C1 - Supervisory or clerical and junior managerial, administrative or professional
Group C2DE - No 34%, Yes 32%, Dont know 34%
C2 - Skilled manual workers
D - Semi and unskilled manual workers
E - Casual or lowest grade workers, pensioners, and others who depend on the welfare state for their income,
barryrs said:
k2sherpa said:
findlay_MX said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Looking at the demographic of "Twibbons" on Facebook amongst my contacts list, there is a very obvious trend towards those who are on benefits/were less bright at school than most/haven't had much education/do not run businesses or hold positions of responsibility professionally having "YES" logos on their profile pictures.
Contentious. But true from my experience, too! gwm said:
Barely seen any No stickers, so hard to say, but generally agree that it's less educated / sponger types that I know voting Yes. This includes people who are educated, but still not contributing much to society.
As a long term lurker / observer this is one of the reasons why I haven't signed up / posted until now, I feel some people post absolute nonsense and it all ends up in a mud slinging match. However after reading the 3 posts above I felt I had to sign up. Would any of you care to back up your general sweeping statements and maybe educate me? I'd love to know what educated / elevated positions in society you all hold that enables you to look down on the rest of society and judge. gym, what would you class as educated but not contributing much to society? Doctor, teacher, nurse, fireman???
As an aside, I know 3 extremely wealthy individuals that are degree educated, however because of family money don't work. I'd say in that respect they don't contribute a huge amount to society (compared to a doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman). They are firm no voters. Does this mean all educated/wealthy people are no voters or is it only the ones who don't contribute to society?
Group ABC1 - No 49%, Yes 25%, Dont know 26%
A - Higher managerial, administrative or professional
B - Intermediate managerial, administrative or professional
C1 - Supervisory or clerical and junior managerial, administrative or professional
Group C2DE - No 34%, Yes 32%, Dont know 34%
C2 - Skilled manual workers
D - Semi and unskilled manual workers
E - Casual or lowest grade workers, pensioners, and others who depend on the welfare state for their income,
I love how pensioners are classed the same as casual/lowest grade workers. Do they make any determination between retired judges/doctors/teachers and casual/lowest grade workers or are all pensioners classed as spongers?
Did they poll 100 people, 100,000 people?
jamieduff1981 said:
CraigV6 said:
I've noticed that people with Yes stickers on their cars are horrible drivers.
Sitting in the outside lane until last minute whilst overtaking nobody, cutting in, tailgating.
Not just once either, noticed this a few times in the last few weeks.
If a no vote forces some of these drivers overseas, then I'm all for it.
Looking at the demographic of "Twibbons" on Facebook amongst my contacts list, there is a very obvious trend towards those who are on benefits/were less bright at school than most/haven't had much education/do not run businesses or hold positions of responsibility professionally having "YES" logos on their profile pictures.Sitting in the outside lane until last minute whilst overtaking nobody, cutting in, tailgating.
Not just once either, noticed this a few times in the last few weeks.
If a no vote forces some of these drivers overseas, then I'm all for it.
k2sherpa said:
As a long term lurker / observer this is one of the reasons why I haven't signed up / posted until now, I feel some people post absolute nonsense and it all ends up in a mud slinging match. However after reading the 3 posts above I felt I had to sign up. Would any of you care to back up your general sweeping statements and maybe educate me?
I'd love to know what educated / elevated positions in society you all hold that enables you to look down on the rest of society and judge. gym, what would you class as educated but not contributing much to society? Doctor, teacher, nurse, fireman???
As an aside, I know 3 extremely wealthy individuals that are degree educated, however because of family money don't work. I'd say in that respect they don't contribute a huge amount to society (compared to a doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman). They are firm no voters. Does this mean all educated/wealthy people are no voters or is it only the ones who don't contribute to society?
Well as has been said, it's general observations from my own personal experience - empirical evidence not based on any poll. Of all the No voters I know, all work. Of the Yes voters I can think of off the top of my head, one is a perpetual student (for no good reason), one is on welfare, 2 sponge off their parents. Extending that to friends of friends, its low skilled and/ or unemployed people of the chavy type. Might sound snobby, but I don't know many people that can afford to take such a massive risk to their livelihood apart from those that don't have much to lose. I'd love to know what educated / elevated positions in society you all hold that enables you to look down on the rest of society and judge. gym, what would you class as educated but not contributing much to society? Doctor, teacher, nurse, fireman???
As an aside, I know 3 extremely wealthy individuals that are degree educated, however because of family money don't work. I'd say in that respect they don't contribute a huge amount to society (compared to a doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman). They are firm no voters. Does this mean all educated/wealthy people are no voters or is it only the ones who don't contribute to society?
And unlike the diehard Nationalists who dare to question my patriotism because I won't vote Yes, maybe think about how lucky we are that we get to vote and respect the democracy that so many would (and have) died for.
Almost as if on cue, this is in today's local paper:
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottis...
Would you agree this (spuriously) supports the view on here?
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottis...
Would you agree this (spuriously) supports the view on here?
doogz said:
You asked for a source. He provided one.
Do you have a better one?
It's exactly this sort of response that's stopped me from signing up in the past, looks like you're raring to go with some decent debate!Do you have a better one?
I'm not arguing with the "results" of the poll, it's the questions/ selection of people asked. If you ask 100 people coming out of a better together campaign rally what results would you expect? I'm using this as an extreme example and not saying that's what happened here but you get my point. You can tailor a poll's results based on the demographic you poll.
I don't expect there will be any polls that favour a yes vote as I don't believe there are any truly impartial polls. Call me a conspiracy theorist but oh well
The only poll I would believe would be a poll that questioned every single eligible voter.Gassing Station | Scotland | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff