Who is bogging off after the YES vote?

[barryrs]

Jeez

[ViperPict]

barryrs said:

ViperPict said:

If Westminster confirmed in principal a currency union now, the markets would be cool with that.

It is a monumental task but it is so totally worth it and I have every confidence we will rise to the challenge!

The markets might but the population you are asking to guarantee your economy aren't; thats where your problem lies ultimately.

Im sure Scotland would rise to the challenge should it be a Yes vote however the refusal to acknowledge the risks publicly by the SNP is where i take exception.

There is always risk. But at least as much risk/ uncertainty with voting no - will we be in Europe? What extra powers will be devolved (likely almost none)? Will out block grant be cut? Will be dragged into another Middle East war? How can the UK manage the massive debt with a economy in deficit? etc etc.

I see less risk with independence now.

Edited by ViperPict on Friday 5th September 12:07

[ViperPict]

barryrs said:

Jeez

I'm sure you can do better than that?

[McWigglebum4th]

exitwound said:

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

The problem is the wee council schemie neds who have never worked a day in their life are the ones most likely to vote YES and are hoping to gain the most. they don't have the brains, skills, money, education or motivation to better themselves so will exist forever in scotland adding nothing


Tory voting traitor scum like myself who are intelligent, educated, skilled and motivated will fk off quite happily


The people you need to build a successful scotland are people like me

What you will be left with is feckless wasters

[ViperPict]

McWigglebum4th said:

exitwound said:

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

The problem is the wee council schemie neds who have never worked a day in their life are the ones most likely to vote YES and are hoping to gain the most. they don't have the brains, skills, money, education or motivation to better themselves so will exist forever in scotland adding nothing


Tory voting traitor scum like myself who are intelligent, educated, skilled and motivated will fk off quite happily


The people you need to build a successful scotland are people like me

What you will be left with is feckless wasters

You are a disgrace.

[McWigglebum4th]

ViperPict said:

We need to have a DEMOCRACY - we do not have that right now. .

You don't have a vote?

I do




Everyone in scotland has a vote and have done for the past 100 years

The SNP have existed in scotland for 80 years


Scotland could at any election in the past 80 years voted for the SNP and then we would have the mandate at any election in the past 80 years to remove ourselves from the union.

At no point has the SNP had more then a tiny percentage of scottish MPs


Care to prove me wrong

[McWigglebum4th]

ViperPict said:

McWigglebum4th said:

exitwound said:

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

The problem is the wee council schemie neds who have never worked a day in their life are the ones most likely to vote YES and are hoping to gain the most. they don't have the brains, skills, money, education or motivation to better themselves so will exist forever in scotland adding nothing


Tory voting traitor scum like myself who are intelligent, educated, skilled and motivated will fk off quite happily


The people you need to build a successful scotland are people like me

What you will be left with is feckless wasters

You are a disgrace.

I don't give a st about your opinion of me


I have had freedom fighters like yourself promise me that i will be first up against the wall come the revolution

You don't scare me


You merely have my pity

[ViperPict]

McWigglebum4th said:

ViperPict said:

We need to have a DEMOCRACY - we do not have that right now. .

You don't have a vote?

I do




Everyone in scotland has a vote and have done for the past 100 years

The SNP have existed in scotland for 80 years


Scotland could at any election in the past 80 years voted for the SNP and then we would have the mandate at any election in the past 80 years to remove ourselves from the union.

At no point has the SNP had more then a tiny percentage of scottish MPs


Care to prove me wrong

Tell me the proportion of time since WW2 that the administration in Westminster coincided with that which we, as a sovereign people, voted for?

[Gaspode]

ViperPict said:

If Westminster confirmed in principal a currency union now, the markets would be cool with that.

It is a monumental task but it is so totally worth it and I have every confidence we will rise to the challenge!

Westminster will never confirm a currency union with Scotland because the British people will not stand for it. The UK remained out of the Euro precisely because it did not which to be financially liable for other countries' (mis)management of their economy. This has been proved to have been a very wise decision. Why on Earth would we now choose to enter a union with a country with no proven record of sound fiscal management, economic policies which would appear to include increasing their deficit, and an irresponsible approach to their existing debt burden?

Any party which countenanced monetary union with an independent Scotland would find itself immediately out of office at the next election. The parties know this, which is why they have all made categorical statements that it is out of the question.

[ViperPict]

McWigglebum4th said:

ViperPict said:

McWigglebum4th said:

exitwound said:

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

The problem is the wee council schemie neds who have never worked a day in their life are the ones most likely to vote YES and are hoping to gain the most. they don't have the brains, skills, money, education or motivation to better themselves so will exist forever in scotland adding nothing


Tory voting traitor scum like myself who are intelligent, educated, skilled and motivated will fk off quite happily


The people you need to build a successful scotland are people like me

What you will be left with is feckless wasters

You are a disgrace.

I don't give a st about your opinion of me


I have had freedom fighters like yourself promise me that i will be first up against the wall come the revolution

You don't scare me


You merely have my pity

Where does this persecution complex come from?

I am not trying to scare you. I am trying to help you...

[ViperPict]

Gaspode said:

ViperPict said:

If Westminster confirmed in principal a currency union now, the markets would be cool with that.

It is a monumental task but it is so totally worth it and I have every confidence we will rise to the challenge!

Westminster will never confirm a currency union with Scotland because the British people will not stand for it. The UK remained out of the Euro precisely because it did not which to be financially liable for other countries' (mis)management of their economy. This has been proved to have been a very wise decision. Why on Earth would we now choose to enter a union with a country with no proven record of sound fiscal management, economic policies which would appear to include increasing their deficit, and an irresponsible approach to their existing debt burden?

Any party which countenanced monetary union with an independent Scotland would find itself immediately out of office at the next election. The parties know this, which is why they have all made categorical statements that it is out of the question.

The money markets rule Westminster though....

[Leithen]

ViperPict said:

NO. WE. ARE. NOT.

I'm old enough to remember Linwood, Ravenscraig and big shipbuilding and coal industries - all gone now! Despite the apparently protective union. We can do better on our own. We need to have a DEMOCRACY - we do not have that right now. We are as wealthy as rUK without oil. Our food and drink industry alone is 30% of the UKs. We have at least 25% of Europe's renewable energy resource - increasingly valuable as 'traditional' energy sources dwindle. The UK is in a FAR worse financial state than Westminster admits to. Unmanageable debt. The recent economic 'growth' (a scary term anyway) is just down to more uncontrolled lending on housing - smoke and mirrors! Westminster has an agenda of taking from the poor to give to the rich - austerity while tax breaks for the super-rich is a mechanism to do specifically that. And very dodgy privatisation (Royal Mail anyone?!). Cover ups over elite paedophile rings at the highest level. Westminster is utterly rotten and is not fit to govern my kids and grandkids. This is NOT a romantic dream - it is all about what is objectively best for Scotland. We have to put down our individual short-term economic issues on this and think for the future over the next decades and centuries. The important thing to remember is that we are not creating another tier of government in an independent Scotland or a mini-Westminster - we are creating an entirely NEW system that we, the electorate, have a huge input is shaping how we want it to be. We are not at the mercy of politician's short term views in this.

Yes we are - all the things you reference are problems faced by every country in the world.

You seriously believe that somehow an independent Scotland would have magically avoided the end of the industrial revolution and decline of heavy industry?

We do live in a democracy. Scotland has historically enjoyed better representation within this democracy than the rest of the UK. You may want to live in a smaller democracy, but all the same problems will remain.

Even the mythical Shangri-La that is Norway has debt. And Pizzas that cost £15.

The last part of your post is interesting, because you appear to tacitly admit that at least a large part of the unfunded promises made by the YES campaign are unachievable.

The Scottish Parliament has already proven itself to be no different from Westminster - the same power hungry politicians lacking any of the vision you dream of.

If that wasn't the case they would have been telling us how hard independence was going to be...... Instead Unicorns everywhere, for everyone.

[jamieduff1981]

ViperPict said:

Leithen said:

exitwound said:

If we're better together, then why aren't we already?

You are, you just don't realise it.

Utopia doesn't exist, there are no unicorns.

What exactly is worth suffering high inflation, high interest rates, high prices, a weak currency, high taxes, high unemployment for?

Look across the world and you'll find that achieving stability, whether economic or political, is very, very hard work. It requires sacrifices and continual hard choices.

The UK is doing very well despite what politicians and commentators might tell you. It could do better, no doubt. Those who complain so bitterly about it, ought to stand for election themselves.

NO. WE. ARE. NOT.

I'm old enough to remember Linwood, Ravenscraig and big shipbuilding and coal industries - all gone now! Despite the apparently protective union. We can do better on our own. We need to have a DEMOCRACY - we do not have that right now. We are as wealthy as rUK without oil. Our food and drink industry alone is 30% of the UKs. We have at least 25% of Europe's renewable energy resource - increasingly valuable as 'traditional' energy sources dwindle. The UK is in a FAR worse financial state than Westminster admits to. Unmanageable debt. The recent economic 'growth' (a scary term anyway) is just down to more uncontrolled lending on housing - smoke and mirrors! Westminster has an agenda of taking from the poor to give to the rich - austerity while tax breaks for the super-rich is a mechanism to do specifically that. And very dodgy privatisation (Royal Mail anyone?!). Cover ups over elite paedophile rings at the highest level. Westminster is utterly rotten and is not fit to govern my kids and grandkids. This is NOT a romantic dream - it is all about what is objectively best for Scotland. We have to put down our individual short-term economic issues on this and think for the future over the next decades and centuries. The important thing to remember is that we are not creating another tier of government in an independent Scotland or a mini-Westminster - we are creating an entirely NEW system that we, the electorate, have a huge input is shaping how we want it to be. We are not at the mercy of politician's short term views in this.

YES. WE. ARE.

exitwound regurgitated yet another stupid meme - why aren't we better already? As a question it doesn't even make sense. Can't you spot the meaninglessness in such banal tripe?

[simoid]

Rollin said:

Why is Salmond so desperate for a currency union?

Because short term it's the easiest way to get people to vote yes, and;
Longer term it's the easiest way to keep people on side by saying Westminster are bullies.

[barryrs]

ViperPict said:

will be in Europe?

Voting Yes guarantees that you will have to negotiate entry into the EU; but on what terms and what if they cant be agreed by independence day?

Voting No appears to offer continued membership - http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/06/17/eu-referendum-...

ViperPict said:

What extra powers will be devolved (likely almost mine)?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/11/contents/enacted

ViperPict said:

Will out block grant be cut?

Will it be increased? Who knows; it seems a non argument to me.

ViperPict said:

Will be dragged into another Middle East war?

Considering Alex Salmonds stance on Syria theres a good chance you would under independence.

ViperPict said:

How can the UK manage the massive debt with a economy in deficit? etc etc.

The UK deficit has been greatly reduced over the last few years without any significant cuts; the IMF even agree that the UK have gotten it right. Once we are in surplus the debit can be addressed but considering 30% is owed to the BOE i dont think theres much risk of them calling in the bailiffs.

I just find your reasons for independence a bit weak but i respect the passion

[jamieduff1981]

ViperPict said:

McWigglebum4th said:

ViperPict said:

McWigglebum4th said:

exitwound said:

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

The problem is the wee council schemie neds who have never worked a day in their life are the ones most likely to vote YES and are hoping to gain the most. they don't have the brains, skills, money, education or motivation to better themselves so will exist forever in scotland adding nothing


Tory voting traitor scum like myself who are intelligent, educated, skilled and motivated will fk off quite happily


The people you need to build a successful scotland are people like me

What you will be left with is feckless wasters

You are a disgrace.

I don't give a st about your opinion of me


I have had freedom fighters like yourself promise me that i will be first up against the wall come the revolution

You don't scare me


You merely have my pity

Where does this persecution complex come from?

I am not trying to scare you. I am trying to help you...

I wish you wouldn't try to help. Like most meddlers, you're making things much worse.

[Rollin]

McWigglebum4th said:

exitwound said:

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

The problem is the wee council schemie neds who have never worked a day in their life are the ones most likely to vote YES and are hoping to gain the most. they don't have the brains, skills, money, education or motivation to better themselves so will exist forever in scotland adding nothing


Tory voting traitor scum like myself who are intelligent, educated, skilled and motivated will fk off quite happily


The people you need to build a successful scotland are people like me

What you will be left with is feckless wasters

You'd never catch the pict fking off to work abroad when it suited him. Unless it's California of course. Did he do it cos it was best for him...or best for Scotland? Hmm

[McWigglebum4th]

ViperPict said:

McWigglebum4th said:

ViperPict said:

We need to have a DEMOCRACY - we do not have that right now. .

You don't have a vote?

I do




Everyone in scotland has a vote and have done for the past 100 years

The SNP have existed in scotland for 80 years


Scotland could at any election in the past 80 years voted for the SNP and then we would have the mandate at any election in the past 80 years to remove ourselves from the union.

At no point has the SNP had more then a tiny percentage of scottish MPs


Care to prove me wrong

Tell me the proportion of time since WW2 that the administration in Westminster coincided with that which we, as a sovereign people, voted for?

Are you actually this dumb or are you ignoring the point?

Scotland could of voted for independence from wastemonster at any point

we haven't



prove me wrong

[simoid]

exitwound said:

All that matters to me is the fact that I can vote for a political party here in Scotland with primarily Scottish matters to concern it.

what the fk are the SNP? And all the other folk in the Scottish parliament?

Time some people grew a pair and embraced the fact that Scots may soon have the chance to run their own country.

we do to pretty much the maximum extent through our voice in the Scottish parliament and our representation in the UK parliament. Salmond's adviser, John Kay - independence for small countries is largely symbolic and inescapably limited.

Yes it will be difficult, we will fall down a lot, and its not a land of milk and honey, but its worth the risk at any cost to secure a future for generations to come.

Tosh. Of course it's not 'worth it at any cost'. Would you live in a ditch for the rest of your life being pissed on by goats and bitten by midges every night for eternity? Of course you wouldn't. And also, have you no idea of the pain that people go through when their country 'falls down'? And you think this'll happen 'a lot'? Somebody said masochist recently and that's exactly what you appear to be.

I drive an old Corvette and a Chevy pickup and I predict bad things for the running of both, due to the amount of tree huggers in the SP, but I'm willing to take the risk, for the sake of a better future for all.

Gee thanks. On a side note, you can tell them you're reducing, reusing, recycling and not contributing to emissions by buying a new car

I'm willing to take the leap of faith just for that.. If it fails, then there's no one to blame except us. If we're better together, then why aren't we already? Why try to tempt us to stay with a vague promise of "more powers" for the Scottish Parliament? Lets not get ahead of ourselves, any decision on EU or whatever will be decided by us alone, that's the difference.

The EU decision is made by the EU. "One does not simply walk into the EU." If it fails, then there's nobody to blame except ourselves for the utter failure of a country we have. The UK, on the other hand, is highly unlikely to "fail". It's being going for 300 years and got through the most enormous of challenges and even ruled the world. The last time Scotland was a country, it failed when it tried to compete with our closest neighbours.

Put your heart into this country or get your arse out.. If anyone's going to "bog" out then by all means do it with our blessing, ..we don't need your faint heart.

My heart, my brain and my wallet are in this country. I think with all three, and try to keep my bks out of the decision making process. Try it some time.

My bold, for anyone wondering.

[McWigglebum4th]

ViperPict said:

NO. WE. ARE. NOT.

I'm old enough to remember Linwood, Ravenscraig and big shipbuilding and coal industries - all gone now!

You want to see big shipbuilding return to scotland


Suits me

Just need to find folk willing to work for the same as chinese shipbuilders