Who is bogging off after the YES vote?
Discussion
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
You don't need a passport or visa for Ireland.
As for the EU, there is two arguments to that too.
but that a huge assumption your making there that the uk would agree to the same arrangement let alone the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Scotland would not be, given that I believe EU member states are bound by treaty to have secure borders with non EU states.As for the EU, there is two arguments to that too.
so I ask where has anyone in the uk government stated that citizens of an independent Scotland would have free and unhindered access to the uk?
Personally I doubt it would happen.
There is so many contradicting statements floating around it is hard to believe what is actually true on lots of matters.
naaaa I don't think so you were stating that you expect Scottish citizens to have the same rights as Irish ones with no evidence to back it up.
You tell me not to assume things, but you appear to be assuming things too.
Are you English? Do you harbour a little hatred towards Scotland?
Driver101 said:
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
You don't need a passport or visa for Ireland.
As for the EU, there is two arguments to that too.
but that a huge assumption your making there that the uk would agree to the same arrangement let alone the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Scotland would not be, given that I believe EU member states are bound by treaty to have secure borders with non EU states.As for the EU, there is two arguments to that too.
so I ask where has anyone in the uk government stated that citizens of an independent Scotland would have free and unhindered access to the uk?
Personally I doubt it would happen.
There is so many contradicting statements floating around it is hard to believe what is actually true on lots of matters.
naaaa I don't think so you were stating that you expect Scottish citizens to have the same rights as Irish ones with no evidence to back it up.
You tell me not to assume things, but you appear to be assuming things too.
Are you English? Do you harbour a little hatred towards Scotland?
so I don't have to hear any more whining about how London doesn't treat you fair.
but don't expect any special treatment just because you used to be part of the uk once you leave the doors closed.
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
citizensm1th said:
Driver101 said:
You don't need a passport or visa for Ireland.
As for the EU, there is two arguments to that too.
but that a huge assumption your making there that the uk would agree to the same arrangement let alone the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Scotland would not be, given that I believe EU member states are bound by treaty to have secure borders with non EU states.As for the EU, there is two arguments to that too.
so I ask where has anyone in the uk government stated that citizens of an independent Scotland would have free and unhindered access to the uk?
Personally I doubt it would happen.
There is so many contradicting statements floating around it is hard to believe what is actually true on lots of matters.
naaaa I don't think so you were stating that you expect Scottish citizens to have the same rights as Irish ones with no evidence to back it up.
You tell me not to assume things, but you appear to be assuming things too.
Are you English? Do you harbour a little hatred towards Scotland?
so I don't have to hear any more whining about how London doesn't treat you fair.
but don't expect any special treatment just because you used to be part of the uk once you leave the doors closed.
Scotland has poor areas that need supported, but we also have quite a few very rich areas that are more than capable of paying their way, just like England.
Many of the most poverty stricken places I've seen in the UK are in England. You guys need more support than us.
So this notion that Scotland is a burden often makes me laugh. Most of England grab on to the success of a city that they rarely visit, yet try and bask in the success it brings.
Most of England is as irrelevant to London as Scotland is. I'm sure London would love to be a republic and let the rest of England sink, which it would fast.
So out of curiosity, what do you offer the country? I guess you obviously pay super tax that allows you the personal ability to be condescending?
I think that answers the question: yes, he does have a little hatred towards Scotland!
Sorry, but independence is very unlikely. I suspect most folk north of the border are of the opinion "better the devil you know". I'd be surprised if more than 20% vote yes. As an exile on an island to the south my heart says yes, my head says NO.
Would I leave if still resident? No. And like I say, nothing will change anyhow.
I'm looking forward to the Ryder Cup more (on TV) and I don't even follow golf.
I'd rather put up with midgies than Hooray Henry southerners (by that I mean not everyone south of Watford is loaded). You can get away with killing midgies...
Sorry, but independence is very unlikely. I suspect most folk north of the border are of the opinion "better the devil you know". I'd be surprised if more than 20% vote yes. As an exile on an island to the south my heart says yes, my head says NO.
Would I leave if still resident? No. And like I say, nothing will change anyhow.
I'm looking forward to the Ryder Cup more (on TV) and I don't even follow golf.
I'd rather put up with midgies than Hooray Henry southerners (by that I mean not everyone south of Watford is loaded). You can get away with killing midgies...
citizensm1th said:
what makes the scots believe they will be able to just walk across the border after independence?
as citizens of a foreign nation outside of the EU you will need both passports and a visa
Citizenship will become an interesting issue should there be a split.as citizens of a foreign nation outside of the EU you will need both passports and a visa
Not everybody north of the border will choose to take up Scottish citizenship - particularly if there are issues over access to other countries - not just those in Europe but those outside. A UK passport has been a pretty good deal in terms of getting about without visas and hassle in many parts of the world.
There will no doubt be more than a few who have no intention of leaving should there be a split but no intention of relinquishing their UK citizenship should the SNP prevail.
I wonder how a future government of an independent Scotland would view a situation where a substantial proportion of Scots were not technically Scottish nationals?
citizensm1th said:
I am English and I hope there is a resounding yes vote and you all toddle off on your merry way
so I don't have to hear any more whining about how London doesn't treat you fair.
but don't expect any special treatment just because you used to be part of the uk once you leave the doors closed.
If Scottish independance would have no impact on the rest of the UK Westminster would tell us to fk off and send us on our way. Anyone who thinks independance won't impact England is deluded.so I don't have to hear any more whining about how London doesn't treat you fair.
but don't expect any special treatment just because you used to be part of the uk once you leave the doors closed.
I find it amazing that Scotland could become the first country in the developed world to say No to their own independance and that people who live here would rather go down south to watch David fking Cameron destroy what's left of the Uk is equally amazing
John.
steelej said:
If Scottish independance would have no impact on the rest of the UK Westminster would tell us to fk off and send us on our way. Anyone who thinks independance won't impact England is deluded.
Well I'll stick my hand up and say I'm deluded then.It will have very little impact on the rest of the UK. Scotland is only aboput 9% of the population and that will shrink in relative terms as the growth in population of the southern UK accelerates - possibly as low as 6% within 25 years.
Many many people in England have never visited Scotland and have zero awareness that it has a different legal and education system.
steelej said:
I find it amazing that Scotland could become the first country in the developed world to say No to their own independance and that people
steelej said:
who live here would rather go down south to watch David fking Cameron destroy what's left of the Uk is equally amazing
What are the bets that Edinburgh will feel as distant to Dundee, Aberdeen, Perth, Inverness, Glasgow, and Paisley as London does now if there is a yes vote?And independence? Well it may be good or it may be bad. But using a second hand currency over which you have no longer have any influence? That's dependence without representation which seems like a step back - and whatever pain north vs south economic disparity has caused in the past will be nothing compared with having the same disparity and no control or cenrtal government fiscal flows to offset.
The Euro? Not that much better. Comes with strings. And in terms of representation is less than there is currently in Westminster. Will being beholden to Germany and France be any better than being a minority part of the UK?
It's not actually about David Cameron or Alec Salmond or any other politician. They are not important. What is important is people putting away emotion and casting their vote with some actual thought about what they hope to achieve with it and being aware that they must also live with the consequences whether they be for better or for worse.
Edited by Dryce on Saturday 12th April 03:32
Dryce said:
What are the bets that Edinburgh will feel as distant to Dundee, Aberdeen, Perth, Inverness, Glasgow, and Paisley as London does now if there is a yes vote?
And independence? Well it may be good or it may be bad. But using a second hand currency over which you have no longer have any influence? That's dependence without representation which seems like a step back - and whatever pain north vs south economic disparity has caused in the past will be nothing compared with having the same disparity and no control or cenrtal government fiscal flows to offset.
The Euro? Not that much better. Comes with strings. And in terms of representation is less than there is currently in Westminster. Will being beholden to Germany and France be any better than being a minority part of the UK?
It's not actually about David Cameron or Alec Salmond or any other politician. They are not important. What is important is people putting away emotion and casting their vote with some actual thought about what they hope to achieve with it and being aware that they must also live with the consequences whether they be for better or for worse.
Where do you think all the oil, gas and whisky money goes?And independence? Well it may be good or it may be bad. But using a second hand currency over which you have no longer have any influence? That's dependence without representation which seems like a step back - and whatever pain north vs south economic disparity has caused in the past will be nothing compared with having the same disparity and no control or cenrtal government fiscal flows to offset.
The Euro? Not that much better. Comes with strings. And in terms of representation is less than there is currently in Westminster. Will being beholden to Germany and France be any better than being a minority part of the UK?
It's not actually about David Cameron or Alec Salmond or any other politician. They are not important. What is important is people putting away emotion and casting their vote with some actual thought about what they hope to achieve with it and being aware that they must also live with the consequences whether they be for better or for worse.
Edited by Dryce on Saturday 12th April 03:32
And Quebec isn't a country, it's Canada, a bit like Texas wanting independance from the rest of the US.
John.
jith said:
I'm trying so hard to keep out of this, but there are some really silly buggers on here.
The SNP won't be running the country. Waken up for god's sake! There will be an election and all the so called Westminster faithfuls from all parties will be only too happy to run for election in an independent Scotland.
How in the name of god can you justify this country being run by Westminster? They have positively devastated it for centuries. We have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh by the way, best of luck in England; and watch out for the bailiffs, millions of speed cameras, massive overpopulation; constant traffic jams, horrible accents, monstrous house prices, wheel clamps, nowhere to park, everyone fawning at the royal babies, the brutal parasitical London stock exchange, etc, etc.
J
But I am told that Scotland will become a workers paradise with huge benefits for those that don't work.The SNP won't be running the country. Waken up for god's sake! There will be an election and all the so called Westminster faithfuls from all parties will be only too happy to run for election in an independent Scotland.
How in the name of god can you justify this country being run by Westminster? They have positively devastated it for centuries. We have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh by the way, best of luck in England; and watch out for the bailiffs, millions of speed cameras, massive overpopulation; constant traffic jams, horrible accents, monstrous house prices, wheel clamps, nowhere to park, everyone fawning at the royal babies, the brutal parasitical London stock exchange, etc, etc.
J
I wonder will end up paying for this?
McWigglebum4th said:
jith said:
I'm trying so hard to keep out of this, but there are some really silly buggers on here.
The SNP won't be running the country. Waken up for god's sake! There will be an election and all the so called Westminster faithfuls from all parties will be only too happy to run for election in an independent Scotland.
How in the name of god can you justify this country being run by Westminster? They have positively devastated it for centuries. We have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh by the way, best of luck in England; and watch out for the bailiffs, millions of speed cameras, massive overpopulation; constant traffic jams, horrible accents, monstrous house prices, wheel clamps, nowhere to park, everyone fawning at the royal babies, the brutal parasitical London stock exchange, etc, etc.
J
But I am told that Scotland will become a workers paradise with huge benefits for those that don't work.The SNP won't be running the country. Waken up for god's sake! There will be an election and all the so called Westminster faithfuls from all parties will be only too happy to run for election in an independent Scotland.
How in the name of god can you justify this country being run by Westminster? They have positively devastated it for centuries. We have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh by the way, best of luck in England; and watch out for the bailiffs, millions of speed cameras, massive overpopulation; constant traffic jams, horrible accents, monstrous house prices, wheel clamps, nowhere to park, everyone fawning at the royal babies, the brutal parasitical London stock exchange, etc, etc.
J
I wonder will end up paying for this?
How much better could things get versus how much worse? It's still a No from me.
I don't think it is representative. dheads of either origin aside, I think most people get along just fine and a substantial portion have friends and relatives on both sides of the border. I would not be in favour of border controls - just another way that the cost of living would increase in Scotland as just mail ordering stuff would become very slow and expensive, let alone the hassle of seeing people on the wrong side.
jith said:
LHD said:
I'll be off.
I'm not hanging around to watch Salmond, Sturgeon and the other clowns ruin this country.
I'm trying so hard to keep out of this, but there are some really silly buggers on here.I'm not hanging around to watch Salmond, Sturgeon and the other clowns ruin this country.
The SNP won't be running the country. Waken up for god's sake! There will be an election and all the so called Westminster faithfuls from all parties will be only too happy to run for election in an independent Scotland.
How in the name of god can you justify this country being run by Westminster? They have positively devastated it for centuries. We have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh by the way, best of luck in England; and watch out for the bailiffs, millions of speed cameras, massive overpopulation; constant traffic jams, horrible accents, monstrous house prices, wheel clamps, nowhere to park, everyone fawning at the royal babies, the brutal parasitical London stock exchange, etc, etc.
J
well done!
Macd355 said:
Only in Scotland could people be covnicinced that thinking for themselves is a bad thing. I'll be off if there isn't a yes vote.
What exactly do you think an independant government could achieve with a population of 5~6 million and a legacy of sharing synergies with a further 55 million people dating back a few hundred years that would be superior to retaining those synergies.I'd like to think I can think for myself. Reading this thread, I actually feel more convinced that I'm above-average at thinking than I was before.
KENZ said:
We're a very small nation of 5 million. But with large amounts of natural resources and exports. We will do ok. It's England I worry about. Can you cope alone?
The thing is that the natural resources are not like Norway's. The North Sea is not a cheap place to produce oil and gas. The oil companies just about tolerate the current taxation but in the industry there's much less interest in investment now than there was a few years ago. More the opposite. Our assets are liabilities with increasing maintenance back logs and increasing water cuts in the daily production.The licenses were granted under a set of terms and conditions. No government can just go all Robert Mugabe on the companies that invested in the North Sea. There are good reserves still there but the North Sea just doesn't offer the ROI that much of the rest of the world does so we're seeing more companies trying to exit the North Sea. Evidence shows that decommissioning costs of assets are consistently around 3 times more than what was expected or budgeted for. There is very little attraction left in the North Sea beyond political and taxation stability.
The trouble with thinking that all this money will keep an independant Scotland afloat is that it assumes that the oil companies aren't nervous about it. It also doesn't really help the inevitable increase in cost of living such as retail fuel prices and food distribution across a potentially controlled border with England, as well as a mandatory increase in public sector to replicate institutions we have access to/use of in England. That doesn't make much difference to the government but will to the Scottish people who believed they'd all get rich without doing any more work. Even lending rates for mortgages etc will go up. The Scottish banks all want to relocate to London for goodness sake.
Still, so long as we get to wave our Saltires and shout Freedom and "think for ourselves" it'll all be grand. Anything to deny England the PRT from our oil production.
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