Who is bogging off after the YES vote?

[ViperPict]

simoid said:

Yeah, clear off back to the English forums, Siscar.

This is you trying to stir up prejudice again, isn't it? Pretty sad.

I made no suggestion he shouldn't post here just that I find it odd when he seeks out this thread in a regional section of PH when he says he has no real interest in the debate. Odd.

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

Then I fear you are being disingenuous or not being honest with yourself.

Inevitably going for independence requires some faith (since we can't know for sure what the situation will be like post-referendum - largely down to Westminster's belligerent refusal to negotiate - although they have been forced into it a bit now).

But I have every faith in our country and a short period of uncertainty will be followed by generations of prosperity (I don't mean just economic).

I have every faith in our country too, we have had generations of prosperity previously, we're into another period of growth (fastest of the most developed nations I believe), more and more jobs are being created at present, and if you do find a job on the lower end of the income scale you pay no income tax on the first £10k of earnings, and somehow the top 1% of earners are contributing nearly 30% of all income tax.

I don't see the point in the years of uncertainty, tbh. Perhaps you and I have different understandings of the effects of the word 'uncertainty' mind you - it's the last thing I want with a mortgage to pay and a life to make right now, not in a generation time where we might have caught ourselves up again.

But you'll just think it's because I'm dishonest and disingenuous, because I wear a blue shirt to play five a sides and not a green one. I hope that's not going to be the basis of your independent Scotland.

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

This is you trying to stir up prejudice again, isn't it? Pretty sad.

I made no suggestion he shouldn't post here just that I find it odd when he seeks out this thread in a regional section of PH when he says he has no real interest in the debate. Odd.

You're the one who pointed out he was in the Scotland forum despite not living here.

Saying you find it odd makes it look like you have a problem. If you don't have a problem, that's fair enough.

[A.J.M]

Humper said:

Wow, all the rich folks care more about personal wealth than independence, seems to be the theme,leaving the ordinary working man willing to fight for it.
Didn't Mel Gibson star in a film with a similar theme.....
All the "nobles" taking bribes from the English, eh?.
If Scotland gaining independence is so bad for you, fk off then, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Wonder if the Manx government are worried about the impossibility of a currency union with the UK?

What a charming attitude to take with those who's opinion differ.

Nobles and working folk? Is this suddenly a class war? When did we skip back 300 years?

Sorry to burst your class war fantasy but I'm far from rich, do you know how much a support worker earns?
Likely half what your earning.. So take your self appointed class war, rich vs poor bullst and ram it!

I'm voting No as I can deal without the huge uncertainty that surrounds this. The vast amount of unanswered questions, tax increases to cover the spend and borrow plans.

It's an idea I didn't want, ask for or vote for, being forced onto me. Damn right I'm against it.

However, I have a plan B and it will help satisfy my desire for travel and to experience other countries that I currently can't.
Win win really.

Plus I can put a fking great ocean between me and idiot attitudes like yours!

[Dryce]

ViperPict said:

I can see no reason to vote no other than misplaced nostalgia or the desire to retain your privilege. Thankfully many Scots are motivated differently.

I suspect that a fair number of those motivated differently who will be voting yes more down to a misplaced chip on their shoulder or some misplaced pre-union fantasy or post-separation romantic fantasy.

The fundamental is that the onus is on the 'yes' side to demonstrate their case for change - and not for those who are unconvinced to justify their position - or in fact have to defend themselves. The case for change is hazy and incomplete and emotive - which is why it it seems that it has to be presented with a bluster that suggests anybody who doesn't agree with it is somehow not being objective or prejudiced. That's a bit unfair.

[ViperPict]

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

This is you trying to stir up prejudice again, isn't it? Pretty sad.

I made no suggestion he shouldn't post here just that I find it odd when he seeks out this thread in a regional section of PH when he says he has no real interest in the debate. Odd.

You're the one who pointed out he was in the Scotland forum despite not living here.

Saying you find it odd makes it look like you have a problem. If you don't have a problem, that's fair enough.

I explained why odd. For someone to search out this thread (additional to the other similar one they post in) on a topic which they say they have no real interest in. Does that not seem odd to you?

[ViperPict]

Dryce said:

ViperPict said:

I can see no reason to vote no other than misplaced nostalgia or the desire to retain your privilege. Thankfully many Scots are motivated differently.

I suspect that a fair number of those motivated differently who will be voting yes more down to a misplaced chip on their shoulder or some misplaced pre-union fantasy or post-separation romantic fantasy.

The fundamental is that the onus is on the 'yes' side to demonstrate their case for change - and not for those who are unconvinced to justify their position - or in fact have to defend themselves. The case for change is hazy and incomplete and emotive - which is why it it seems that it has to be presented with a bluster that suggests anybody who doesn't agree with it is somehow not being objective or prejudiced. That's a bit unfair.

They seem to be achieving that demonstration then as the most recent poll suggests a 2% swing would result in a YES vote...

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

They seem to be achieving that demonstration then as the most recent poll suggests a 2% swing would result in a YES vote...

Or they've bigged up the Tory Westminster bogeyman sufficiently.

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

I explained why odd. For someone to search out this thread (additional to the other similar one they post in) on a topic which they say they have no real interest in. Does that not seem odd to you?

Would you say it's like popping into the Rangers thread because "it's just quite amusing to rile some Gers fans over the situation that their team finds itself in"?

I don't find Siscar's interest in politics and economics odd, or that the Scottish indeoendence thread has brought him here, since it was specifically mentioned in and spilled over from said other thread, from which thou art banned for trolling.

[ViperPict]

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

They seem to be achieving that demonstration then as the most recent poll suggests a 2% swing would result in a YES vote...

Or they've bigged up the Tory Westminster bogeyman sufficiently.

If that makes you feel better...

[ViperPict]

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

I explained why odd. For someone to search out this thread (additional to the other similar one they post in) on a topic which they say they have no real interest in. Does that not seem odd to you?

Would you say it's like popping into the Rangers thread because "it's just quite amusing to rile some Gers fans over the situation that their team finds itself in"?

I don't find Siscar's interest in politics and economics odd, or that the Scottish indeoendence thread has brought him here, since it was specifically mentioned in and spilled over from said other thread, from which thou art banned for trolling.

Despite him saying he's not that interested in the independence issue, yet involved in two threads on the issue (one of which specifically asks a question directed at those living in Scotland)? I do find that slightly incongruous.

I fully admit having previously posting on the Rangers thread - it's called 'banter' and something, I believe, quite common in Association Football.

I notice you tried to drum up unionist support for this thread on the other one then deleted the post!

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

Despite him saying he's not that interested in the independence issue, yet involved in two threads on the issue (one of which specifically asks a question directed at those living in Scotland)? I do find that slightly incongruous.

I fully admit having previously posting on the Rangers thread - it's called 'banter' and something, I believe, quite common in Association Football.

I notice you tried to drum up unionist support for this thread on the other one then deleted the post!

Whatever.

Others would call it trolling.

Not got a clue what you're talking about. Presumably you're trolling again.

[hidetheelephants]

Dryce said:

I suspect that a fair number of those motivated differently who will be voting yes more down to a misplaced chip on their shoulder or some misplaced pre-union fantasy or post-separation romantic fantasy.

The fundamental is that the onus is on the 'yes' side to demonstrate their case for change - and not for those who are unconvinced to justify their position - or in fact have to defend themselves. The case for change is hazy and incomplete and emotive - which is why it it seems that it has to be presented with a bluster that suggests anybody who doesn't agree with it is somehow not being objective or prejudiced. That's a bit unfair.

Are there any former parts of the British Empire where economic growth was used as justification for independence? I don't know, but I'm not aware of any that did it for any reason other than self-determination(except that island in the caribbean which, having suffered chronic corruption at the hands of their own 'leaders', opted to go back to being administered by the FCO).

[Humper]

A.J.M said:

What a charming attitude to take with those who's opinion differ.

A.J.M said:

So take your self appointed class war, rich vs poor bullst and ram it!

A.J.M said:

Plus I can put a fking great ocean between me and idiot attitudes like yours!

Yeah, I find my attitude charming, nearly as charming as those who reply

I have no idea(nor do I care) how much you earn. Not my problem.

I didn't vote for nuclear waste to be dumped here, nor the Poll Tax, nor war with Argentina/Afghanistan/Iraq/etc, nor many other things.

I personally think Salmond's a prick.

I also think most politicians are pricks.(I have a friend who's a Provost so can't say all)

I'd rather be governed by Scottish pricks than English ones.
I will be voting for Scotland to become a country, not the SNP.

Of course there will be problems with independence, you'd be a Muppet to think otherwise. But i reckon it'd be worth the aggro, other countries, people die for the right to vote for independence, all we Scots have to do is get off our fat arses and mark an x in the box. Trouble is, too many self centred people aren't willing to take the risk. So yes, Scotland would be better off without you if you are unwilling to help your country in a time of need.

[simoid]

It was a government voted for by Scots, consisting of many Scots who took Scotland's soldiers into war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And that Alastair Campbell boy didn't come out all English and squeaky clean either.

And the SNP have been as keen as anyone else to get involved in recent Arab conflicts/civil wars.

And we plan to join NATO and the EU and remain pals with as many people as possible.

So I cannot see how a yes vote has any real bearing on the likelihood of future conflict.

[McWigglebum4th]

Humper said:

Yeah, I find my attitude charming, nearly as charming as those who reply

I have no idea(nor do I care) how much you earn. Not my problem.

I didn't vote for nuclear waste to be dumped here, nor the Poll Tax, nor war with Argentina/Afghanistan/Iraq/etc, nor many other things.

I personally think Salmond's a prick.

I also think most politicians are pricks.(I have a friend who's a Provost so can't say all)

I'd rather be governed by Scottish pricks than English ones.
I will be voting for Scotland to become a country, not the SNP.

Of course there will be problems with independence, you'd be a Muppet to think otherwise. But i reckon it'd be worth the aggro, other countries, people die for the right to vote for independence, all we Scots have to do is get off our fat arses and mark an x in the box. Trouble is, too many self centred people aren't willing to take the risk. So yes, Scotland would be better off without you if you are unwilling to help your country in a time of need.

What a charmer

[Siscar]

ViperPict said:

Despite him saying he's not that interested in the independence issue, yet involved in two threads on the issue (one of which specifically asks a question directed at those living in Scotland)? I do find that slightly incongruous.

I fully admit having previously posting on the Rangers thread - it's called 'banter' and something, I believe, quite common in Association Football.

I notice you tried to drum up unionist support for this thread on the other one then deleted the post!

I have no recollection of saying I wasn't interested in the issue, in fact I find it fascinating how it's going, but I'm not particularly bothered by the outcome.

What is amazing about it is how the SNP are able to ignore issues - a bit like you used to ignore questions VP - and people accept it. It's like you deciding to move house and commit to buying one when you don't know where it is, how big it is or how much it will cost.

Seems weird to me.

[hidetheelephants]

Another excellent definition of irony; being lectured about the affordability or otherwise of pensions in iScotland by the great pensions thief himself, Gordon Brown.

[ViperPict]

hidetheelephants said:

Another excellent definition of irony; being lectured about the affordability or otherwise of pensions in iScotland by the great pensions thief himself, Gordon Brown.

And did you notice the contrasting headlines in the UK and Scottish editions of the Mirror today?

[A.J.M]

Humper said:

Yeah, I find my attitude charming, nearly as charming as those who reply

I have no idea(nor do I care) how much you earn. Not my problem.

I didn't vote for nuclear waste to be dumped here, nor the Poll Tax, nor war with Argentina/Afghanistan/Iraq/etc, nor many other things.

I personally think Salmond's a prick.

I also think most politicians are pricks.(I have a friend who's a Provost so can't say all)

I'd rather be governed by Scottish pricks than English ones.
I will be voting for Scotland to become a country, not the SNP.

Of course there will be problems with independence, you'd be a Muppet to think otherwise. But i reckon it'd be worth the aggro, other countries, people die for the right to vote for independence, all we Scots have to do is get off our fat arses and mark an x in the box. Trouble is, too many self centred people aren't willing to take the risk. So yes, Scotland would be better off without you if you are unwilling to help your country in a time of need.

Like i said. Charming. Not only am i a rich nobleman, i'm also self centred and unwilling to help out.

My reply was to show you that not everyone who want's to leave is rich. Which you clearly missed.

Plenty of the things you never voted for, were pushed through by Scot's acting not in the interests of the country. Seem familiar?
Salmond's lies about EU information, that once pressed with a FOI act, had to get someone else to admit it was a lie.
His guarantee that the Royal Navy will continue to build ships in Scotland, even though that's against EU law...
Need i go on?

I'm unwilling to watch my country walk into a st storm sold on bullst lies, lies that don't stand up to unbiased evidence, reports from market leaders and the fking President of the EU.

If you can read all the evidence, weigh it up and STILL vote yes, then tell me and other's who can see it for the bullst it is to fk off. Then God help you.

The list of unanswered items is more than a little problem. I note that none of the Yes crew have picked up on the list of items already posted up. Tells me everything. Happy to tell people to fk off because they disagree with them but not answer the glaring issues of the debate..

All ignoring the fact that if a yes vote happens, the divorce of the UK will be settled by Westminister. Who after a few years of being told to fk off and other harshness, will act in the interest's of the UK first.

Like i said, charming outlook. Instead of debating, call them rich and tell them to fk off. Good plan.

Exactly why i will be leaving.