Who is bogging off after the YES vote?

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

And did you notice the contrasting headlines in the UK and Scottish editions of the Mirror today?

Those headlines aren't contrasting.

(That's also the Express, not the Mirror)

Also that's not the UK version of the Express.

So much wrong in such a short post

Edited by simoid on Tuesday 22 April 22:52

[GoneAnon]

A.J.M said:

His guarantee that the Royal Navy will continue to build ships in Scotland, even though that's against EU law...
Need i go on?

There is no EU law to stop a country building warships for another country. It is simply the case that the UK says it has never done so, although it has used foreign shipbuilders for support vessels, fisheries protection vessels etc. If there is an EU law, please post a link here. If not, maybe you would like to apologise for spreading more unionist propaganda?

A.J.M said:

If you can read all the evidence, weigh it up and STILL vote yes, then tell me and other's who can see it for the bullst it is to fk off. Then God help you.

If you can swallow all the bullst, weigh it up and STILL vote no, then tell me and other's who can see it for the bullst it is to fk off. Then God help you.

[ViperPict]

A.J.M said:

Humper said:

Yeah, I find my attitude charming, nearly as charming as those who reply

I have no idea(nor do I care) how much you earn. Not my problem.

I didn't vote for nuclear waste to be dumped here, nor the Poll Tax, nor war with Argentina/Afghanistan/Iraq/etc, nor many other things.

I personally think Salmond's a prick.

I also think most politicians are pricks.(I have a friend who's a Provost so can't say all)

I'd rather be governed by Scottish pricks than English ones.
I will be voting for Scotland to become a country, not the SNP.

Of course there will be problems with independence, you'd be a Muppet to think otherwise. But i reckon it'd be worth the aggro, other countries, people die for the right to vote for independence, all we Scots have to do is get off our fat arses and mark an x in the box. Trouble is, too many self centred people aren't willing to take the risk. So yes, Scotland would be better off without you if you are unwilling to help your country in a time of need.

Like i said. Charming. Not only am i a rich nobleman, i'm also self centred and unwilling to help out.

My reply was to show you that not everyone who want's to leave is rich. Which you clearly missed.

Plenty of the things you never voted for, were pushed through by Scot's acting not in the interests of the country. Seem familiar?
Salmond's lies about EU information, that once pressed with a FOI act, had to get someone else to admit it was a lie.
His guarantee that the Royal Navy will continue to build ships in Scotland, even though that's against EU law...
Need i go on?

I'm unwilling to watch my country walk into a st storm sold on bullst lies, lies that don't stand up to unbiased evidence, reports from market leaders and the fking President of the EU.

If you can read all the evidence, weigh it up and STILL vote yes, then tell me and other's who can see it for the bullst it is to fk off. Then God help you.

The list of unanswered items is more than a little problem. I note that none of the Yes crew have picked up on the list of items already posted up. Tells me everything. Happy to tell people to fk off because they disagree with them but not answer the glaring issues of the debate..

All ignoring the fact that if a yes vote happens, the divorce of the UK will be settled by Westminister. Who after a few years of being told to fk off and other harshness, will act in the interest's of the UK first.

Like i said, charming outlook. Instead of debating, call them rich and tell them to fk off. Good plan.

Exactly why i will be leaving.

For all the issues you mention, there are counter arguments from just as eminent experts. It just depends on who you choose to believe to fit your emotional position on the issue.

[OlberJ]

Ok, so unanswered questions.

What's Westmineters plan A for Scotland?

How much budget will we have to spend for next year and beyond?

How are they planning to stabilise jobs, the currency, the debt?

Will we still be in the EU by 2017?

What are this weeks lottery numbers?


Without these answers, laid out in detail and backed up by facts and signed contracts I'm sorry but there's no way I can be asked to vote for Westminster governance. It's all guesswork and no sane person would decide their future on that, would they?

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

For all the issues you mention, there are counter arguments from just as eminent experts. It just depends on who you choose to believe to fit your emotional position on the issue.

What do you think the EU situation would be if we left the UK?

[simoid]

OlberJ said:

Ok, so unanswered questions.

What's Westmineters plan A for Scotland?

How much budget will we have to spend for next year and beyond?

How are they planning to stabilise jobs, the currency, the debt?

Will we still be in the EU by 2017?

What are this weeks lottery numbers?


Without these answers, laid out in detail and backed up by facts and signed contracts I'm sorry but there's no way I can be asked to vote for Westminster governance. It's all guesswork and no sane person would decide their future on that, would they?

I'm not sure how much we'll have to spend. I do know we've been racking up debt for years and the party is coming to an end. I'd prefer not to accelerate that by leaving the UK, introducing uncertainty and the need to balance the books quickly in a time of unknown taxes and expenditure.

Employment is increasing, there have never been as many people employed in Scotland as there are now, the currency is stable and the economy is (one of the?) fastest growing in the developed world. Although I'm not sure the debt issue is stabilised yet leaving the UK doesn't help.

Only 1 party wants the UK to leave the EU (or 2 if you include the SNP who want to leave an EU member, with uncertainty over readmission). Besides, if the UK leaves the EU, would you want an independent Scotland to be IN!?

[ViperPict]

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

And did you notice the contrasting headlines in the UK and Scottish editions of the Mirror today?

Those headlines aren't contrasting.

(That's also the Express, not the Mirror)

Also that's not the UK version of the Express.

So much wrong in such a short post

Edited by simoid on Tuesday 22 April 22:52

You think your pedantry masks the obvious glaring issue here?

[hidetheelephants]

Has Eck ever given a rationale for the inexplicable SNP policy on nuclear power; it's safe to operate existing installations and we're capable of running them, but we can't build new ones, we'd be rubbish at running them and we'd kill ourselves to death.

[A.J.M]

The UK can under Article 346 TFEU which is the EU law and defence procurement directive, stop the current exemption Scotland enjoys for building ships for the Navy. Done to protect its secrets and interests for national security.

EU law PDF link here.

http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/publicprocurem...

House of Commons statements here.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/...

Please note in bold. 134. 141. 144. 145 and 146.

Not bold but read 139 as well.

I'm on my phone so links may not work.

However, they show my statement to be correct. Under national interests the UK will no longer use Scottish shipyards, as I said.

[GoneAnon]

simoid said:

ViperPict said:

And did you notice the contrasting headlines in the UK and Scottish editions of the Mirror today?

Those headlines aren't contrasting.

(That's also the Express, not the Mirror)

Also that's not the UK version of the Express.

So much wrong in such a short post

Edited by simoid on Tuesday 22 April 22:52

If they aren't contrasting, what on earth are they?

OK, it is certainly the Express and not the Mirror, but do they publish different editions in England, Wales and Northern Ireland or is it a UK edition?

At least as much wrong in such a short post

[GoneAnon]

Today I saw, for the first time, a car sticker that said "UK OK Better Together".

The car was pretty st too, but should "OK" be the limit of our ambition?
Should we really be prepared to "settle" for OK?
Do we really want our kids just to be OK?

I know how I'll explain it to my kids if we win independence and things are: tough/don't go entirely as hoped/st.

What will you say to your kids if we lose independence and things are just OK? What if the UK does go bust at some point in the future? (And who is going to pipe up and guarantee that THAT could never happen?)

I don't think independence will EVER make me regret leaving the UK but, even if I end up worse off (and I'm not at all convinced that I will), I'm reconciled to the belief that, in this as in life, it is better to regret the things that you have done than the things you have not.

[ViperPict]

GoneAnon said:

Today I saw, for the first time, a car sticker that said "UK OK Better Together".

The car was pretty st too, but should "OK" be the limit of our ambition?
Should we really be prepared to "settle" for OK?
Do we really want our kids just to be OK?

I know how I'll explain it to my kids if we win independence and things are: tough/don't go entirely as hoped/st.

What will you say to your kids if we lose independence and things are just OK? What if the UK does go bust at some point in the future? (And who is going to pipe up and guarantee that THAT could never happen?)

I don't think independence will EVER make me regret leaving the UK but, even if I end up worse off (and I'm not at all convinced that I will), I'm reconciled to the belief that, in this as in life, it is better to regret the things that you have done than the things you have not.

+1

I cannot settle for the mediocrity of staying within the UK.

[Dryce]

GoneAnon said:

I know how I'll explain it to my kids if we win independence and things are: tough/don't go entirely as hoped/st.

There's always the Irish solution - and they can emigrate.

GoneAnon said:

What will you say to your kids if we lose independence and things are just OK? What if the UK does go bust at some point in the future? (And who is going to pipe up and guarantee that THAT could never happen?)

I'll pipe up and say it's less likely to happen to the UK than an independent Scotland.

The UK got off fairly lightly in the economic crisis. It has its own hard currency - and it has some standing in the world whe it comes to security - the two aspects give it significant flexibility and robustness.

An independent Scotland doesn't have the benefit of its own currency according to the current Plan B on currency 'sharing'. And the UK will be by far its biggest trading partner. So should the UK go bust an independent Scotland would be collateral damage.

As for 'just OK' the UK is rather better than 'just OK' (and by inference so is Scotland right now). People in the UK might moan and grump but they don't realise how good they actually get it. The world is teeming with people who would rather live in the UK than their own countries. The UK is teeming with people who have made that *choice* to settle and live their lives here.

So prepare yourself should Scotland be independent - your kids will be more likely to emigrate than you realise. And the chances are that if they do it will be to the UK.

[Dryce]

ViperPict said:

+1

I cannot settle for the mediocrity of staying within the UK.

As the way of the world goes - the UK is far from mediocre.

[Edinburger]

ViperPict said:

And did you notice the contrasting headlines in the UK and Scottish editions of the Mirror today?

To be fair VP, those are two different and unrelated stories. It's just that they both happen to be about pensions.

[jamieduff1981]

Dryce said:

ViperPict said:

+1

I cannot settle for the mediocrity of staying within the UK.

As the way of the world goes - the UK is far from mediocre.

I think that irony is lost on people doing well in the UK who still feel genuinely hard done by.

Just how they expect life to get appreciably better I have no idea. I fear the benefits of being part of the UK are something many will refuse to appreciate until they've thrown it away, and even then they'll refuse to admit they screwed up.

As for explaining it to our children - well far be it for me to tell others how to bring up their children but I have no intention of having to explain to them why their life is going to be rubbish. It'll be interesting to see how proud the next generation are to be Scottish when the baillifs are banging on their door because they can't keep up with their debts following the latest rise in interest rates.

I keep forgetting though - all Salmond's assumptions will work out just fine. How silly of me.

[simoid]

GoneAnon said:

If they aren't contrasting, what on earth are they?

OK, it is certainly the Express and not the Mirror, but do they publish different editions in England, Wales and Northern Ireland or is it a UK edition?

At least as much wrong in such a short post

The UK includes Scotland.

The stories aren't contrasting: one is an absolute statement, the other is relative.

Eg "I am bad at golf" and "I will be better at golf if I don't saw my leg off" aren't contrasting.

[simoid]

ViperPict said:

You think your pedantry masks the obvious glaring issue here?

What would that be?

[ViperPict]

Dryce said:

ViperPict said:

+1

I cannot settle for the mediocrity of staying within the UK.

As the way of the world goes - the UK is far from mediocre.

Rubbish. I've lived in other parts of the world and the UK is extremely mediocre. And future even more so. Unless Scotland becomes independent, in which case the whole UK will get a much needed kick up the @rse.

[gwm]

A.J.M said:

The list of unanswered items is more than a little problem. I note that none of the Yes crew have picked up on the list of items already posted up. Tells me everything. Happy to tell people to fk off because they disagree with them but not answer the glaring issues of the debate..

And I'm still waiting on any sort of reply to my points raised at the request of footsoldier. I was called out by a Yesser, gave some answers and sources, yet it has been ignored. I've been pretty fair to both sides of the vote, yet still the same argument just goes round and round.

There does seem to be a shift in the campaigns over the last couple of days. Hopefully with more people being educated on facts and fugures, not just politician rhetoric.