A9 average speed cameras

[simoid]

JM said:

Dual carriageway between Dunblane and Perth, but north of Perth it is only sections of the single carriageway bits that are covered.

Sorry yes, always forget there's A9 South of Perth

[martin mrt]

JM said:

Granfondo said:

Is there average speed cameras covering the dual carriageway sections or is it only the 60mph bits?

Dual carriageway between Dunblane and Perth, but north of Perth it is only sections of the single carriageway bits that are covered.

Sure does, I have travelled up and down that section in the Lorry on the Limiter (mine is set at 58/59mph) and I've been fine since they started, haven't received anything through

That's a calibrated speed reading

[GoneAnon]

young_bairn said:

Just discovered my audi as average speed indication in the menu. I just reset at each camera. The speedo indicates about 3-4mph lower than the average speed read out. Passing cars all the time now.

I understood that the cameras aren't necessarily paired from one to the next but could be 1st to 3rd, or 2nd to 5th or whatever?

[simoid]

GoneAnon said:

I understood that the cameras aren't necessarily paired from one to the next but could be 1st to 3rd, or 2nd to 5th or whatever?

I suppose it would come down to expected revenues from each.

[s2kjock]

Why would they not be paired to each other?

[simoid]

To cover a greater %age of the road at any one time?

Just guessing like. Any time I've driven at night through an ASC zone it's only been consecutive IR lamps that I've seen.

[Mojocvh]

GoneAnon said:

young_bairn said:

Just discovered my audi as average speed indication in the menu. I just reset at each camera. The speedo indicates about 3-4mph lower than the average speed read out. Passing cars all the time now.

I understood that the cameras aren't necessarily paired from one to the next but could be 1st to 3rd, or 2nd to 5th or whatever?

Not according to the Home office guidelines issued when they first came out. Today however....interesting point actually.

[Vipers]

Tabloid yesterday.

A9 DEATHS RISE SINCE LAUNCH OF SPEED CAMERAS.

The number of fatal road crashes on the A9 sored by 20% after the introduction of average speed cameras.

---

So seems just like another cash cow. I wonder what will happen now, leave it and monitor fatalities, or seriously rethink.

[s2kjock]

Were serious injuries not down over the same period though?

The number of fatalities must have had peaks and troughs before the average speed cameras, and presumably traffic volumes have increased each year.

I think we'll need to wait a few years for meaningful data linked to traffic volumes (by which time the dualling process will have commenced and traffic speeds fallen to knacker the statistics a bit more). We may never know how effective they have really been in reducing KSIs.

[Vipers]

Just read the P & J, letters page quote "fatal and serious casualties DOWN by 50%", another said "If, as figures released recently show the number of people killed and seriously injured has indeed halved"

Who do you believe, I give in.

[Mr Trophy]

Interested to find out if these crashes happen on the non camera parts (dual lane).

[Dryce]

Vipers said:

Just read the P & J, letters page quote "fatal and serious casualties DOWN by 50%", another said "If, as figures released recently show the number of people killed and seriously injured has indeed halved"

Who do you believe, I give in.

It looks like:

Deaths up and 'serious casualties' down.

Given that deaths were in a minority then if you add the two together you get: 'Deaths and serious casualties' down.

So there's statistics in there to be used by advocates of both sides of any debate on the matter.

Then we have the amount of speeding going up or down. Well that's meaningless because the averaging cameras may detect more or fewer depending on the patterns of speeding on the road.

I don't believe there was a real problem with speed before the cameras went up. And I don't believe there is one now. So all that has happened is some change to habits and patterns and a change of detection and enforcement. So nobody really knows for sure because what is being measured has changed and the means of measurement have changed.

My feeling when travelling on it is that the road is no less dangerous that it was before and that ironically the only sections on which speeds have noticeably dropped are the dualled sections north of Perth which are not covered by cameras. I still see as much dodgy overtaking on the single sections as I used to and the discpline on the road is no better.

[rampantdidact]

This is false information.

These new A90 average speed cameras are set up until the completion of the Queensferry Crossing along with a new lowered 40mph speed limit due to drivers 'becoming distracted' with the works of the new bridge.

[ModernAndy]

rampantdidact said:

This is false information.

These new A90 average speed cameras are set up until the completion of the Queensferry Crossing along with a new lowered 40mph speed limit due to drivers 'becoming distracted' with the works of the new bridge.

What information is false?

Edited by ModernAndy on Wednesday 29th July 18:16

[jamesbeaumont]

rampantdidact said:

This is false information.

These new A90 average speed cameras are set up until the completion of the Queensferry Crossing along with a new lowered 40mph speed limit due to drivers 'becoming distracted' with the works of the new bridge.

The average speed cameras been discussed here have nothing to do with the bridge. They have been installed to reduce accidents on the road and are there until (if...!) the road is dualled.

[jith]

Dryce said:

Vipers said:

Just read the P & J, letters page quote "fatal and serious casualties DOWN by 50%", another said "If, as figures released recently show the number of people killed and seriously injured has indeed halved"

Who do you believe, I give in.

It looks like:

Deaths up and 'serious casualties' down.

Given that deaths were in a minority then if you add the two together you get: 'Deaths and serious casualties' down.

So there's statistics in there to be used by advocates of both sides of any debate on the matter.

Then we have the amount of speeding going up or down. Well that's meaningless because the averaging cameras may detect more or fewer depending on the patterns of speeding on the road.

I don't believe there was a real problem with speed before the cameras went up. And I don't believe there is one now. So all that has happened is some change to habits and patterns and a change of detection and enforcement. So nobody really knows for sure because what is being measured has changed and the means of measurement have changed.

My feeling when travelling on it is that the road is no less dangerous that it was before and that ironically the only sections on which speeds have noticeably dropped are the dualled sections north of Perth which are not covered by cameras. I still see as much dodgy overtaking on the single sections as I used to and the discpline on the road is no better.

There is an interesting parallel here with the introduction of the seat belt laws in the '70s. You may remember that pillar of moral respectability Jimmy Saville and his "clunk click every trip" campaign. We now know of course he wanted his victims well and truly locked into the seat so they couldn't escape his "attentions".

Anyway, what he represented was the idea that seat belts will save thousands of lives by stopping you sailing through the windscreen. I was involved in quite a bit of road safety research at the time and discovered that it wasn't quite that simple.

The concept of enforcing seat belt use came from accident statistics in Australia. When examined it could be claimed with impunity that injury rates were indeed considerably reduced after the introduction of seat belt law, but what they didn't tell you was at speeds over anything like 60 MPH, the belts themselves massively increased serious injury such as brain damage through the spinal cord being severed at the neck, or the impact of being thrown against the belt in a sudden stop crushing your rib cage and punching the sternum through the heart.

Bear in mind when they were introduced there were no airbags to protect the face and head. Women were particularly vulnerable to these injuries simply because they have weaker bodies on average.

The point is, it is very simple to make claims using statistics to forward your particular agenda, and do it without lying, but the bigger picture is frequently missed.

The A9 should of course be a 3 lane motorway: this would absolutely guarantee a dramatic decrease in road casualties and RTAs. The only reason it is not is because it is in Scotland. One of the reasons for this is it would prevent farm machinery from using this road. The worst experiences I have had on the A9 when I was a frequent user was dealing with farm machinery. On one occasion I had a farmer drive straight out in front of me in a combine harvester from a side road at night. He didn't even look, had no lights and would not pull in to let me pass. His vehicle was massive, had steel spikes sticking out in both directions and managed only 12 MPH. This is totally unacceptable by any standards.

This has being going on for years on this road and, to my knowledge, they are never brought to task. Strict speed control is not, and never will be, the answer to road safety. But it's a dead easy fix for the authorities and brings in revenue.

If we don't change the way things are going in this country, driving will become an absolute misery, taking hours to complete relatively short journeys and raising frustration and stress to even greater levels.

J

[Gphillips26]

GoneAnon said:

young_bairn said:

Just discovered my audi as average speed indication in the menu. I just reset at each camera. The speedo indicates about 3-4mph lower than the average speed read out. Passing cars all the time now.

I understood that the cameras aren't necessarily paired from one to the next but could be 1st to 3rd, or 2nd to 5th or whatever?

re the above it doesn't matter if they are paired surely as provided you average between camera one and camera two you are always averaging a speed lower than the limit and therefore (bit of physics and man maths here) v=d/t no matter what distance you travel between say camera one and camera five if you always average lower than the limit between cameras your net average will be lower than the limit too?

Could be wrong but seems to add up (as it were!)

[rampantdidact]

Sorry its just me being an absolute muppet, I read the thread as A90 average speed cameras.....

But fyi, new averages speed cameras are being installed on the A90 just before and after the Forth Road Bridge.

[ModernAndy]

rampantdidact said:

Sorry its just me being an absolute muppet, I read the thread as A90 average speed cameras.....

But fyi, new averages speed cameras are being installed on the A90 just before and after the Forth Road Bridge.

I believe the last one is by the exit going to Dunfermline south (the first of the 2 exits you can take into Dunfermline when heading north) so worth being aware of that as I can see a few people thinking the one just after the bridge will be the last one. Any idea when they're getting turned on? I saw a few people taking it pretty quick after the bridge the other day but I'd imagine the cameras aren't opertational just yet.

I'd imagine the average speed cameras will start operating on the lower levels of tolerance from Autumn. Can anybody confirm?

[rampantdidact]

ModernAndy said:

I believe the last one is by the exit going to Dunfermline south (the first of the 2 exits you can take into Dunfermline when heading north) so worth being aware of that as I can see a few people thinking the one just after the bridge will be the last one. Any idea when they're getting turned on? I saw a few people taking it pretty quick after the bridge the other day but I'd imagine the cameras aren't opertational just yet.

I'd imagine the average speed cameras will start operating on the lower levels of tolerance from Autumn. Can anybody confirm?

They have a sign saying they are under testing and the speed limit hasn't been reduced yet so they wont be operational.

I'd think it would be a week or two minimum before they are turned on, nothing official has been mentioned though.