Motor Racing Scotland

[Corpulent Tosser]

A thought after reading the report on the BTCC at Knockhill.

Why the lack of circuits in Scotland ? Wales has two with the Circuit of Wales looking like happening to make three. We have Knockhill and East Fortune which is bikes only.
There are several kart tracks plus hill climb and sprint events but we are lacking in circuits.

As a laddie I was more interested in bikes and spectated and competed at Gask, Beveridge Park, Ingliston and Crimond, now all gone, and at Knockhill and East Fortune, others too have gone.

I remember in the 80s there was a plan to build a circuit west of Aberdeen which never happened, and a bike event organised at the Exhibition Centre in Aberdeen which also fell through.

I doubt I am the only one who wishes there were more circuits in Scotland.

[Olivera]

Corpulent Tosser said:

A thought after reading the report on the BTCC at Knockhill.

Wales has two with the Circuit of Wales looking like happening to make three.

Wales has three current circuits, Anglesey, Pembrey and Llandow, with the proposed Circuit of Wales being a fourth. This is quite galling as Wales has a lower population than Scotland!

Regarding additional circuits up here, I think the bottom line is the business case simply wouldn't stack up. The only possible way I can see a new circuit being funded is via a rich benefactor.

As I've stated on here before, I think any energy and funding on this matter would be best used by getting cars running at East Fortune once more.

[GreigM]

Money. Look at most circuits, they were built from existing facilities (airfields etc) or have very lowly beginnings and turned into modern circuits over a very long period of time. The cost to build a new circuit from scratch which would come up to any reasonable standard would be astronomical. Couple that with the relatively low wealth and population density in Scotland then there simply isn't an economic case for it as it could never pay for itself. Thats all before you attempt to get some sort of planning permission. It will never happen unless some extremely wealthy enthusiast is willing so lose £100 million to get something started and hope that would encourage other investors.

[McWigglebum4th]

Vote YES and we will all have our own personnel race track

[slipstream 1985]

McWigglebum4th said:

Vote YES and we will all have our own personnel race track

keep politics out of this please.

I believe a few individuals have tried but come up against unsupportive councils and nimbys

[FordMan1]

Did Jackie Stewart not plan on having Forestburn on the side of the M8 as the next circuit in Scotland with racing round the man made loch? Only problem being Forestburn is hardly wide enough for a go-kart...

[Corpulent Tosser]

Olivera said:

Wales has three current circuits, Anglesey, Pembrey and Llandow, with the proposed Circuit of Wales being a fourth. This is quite galling as Wales has a lower population than Scotland!

Regarding additional circuits up here, I think the bottom line is the business case simply wouldn't stack up. The only possible way I can see a new circuit being funded is via a rich benefactor.

As I've stated on here before, I think any energy and funding on this matter would be best used by getting cars running at East Fortune once more.

I was forgetting Llandow.

As has been said most circuits originated on old airfields and have grown into what they are, I agree that getting cars back to East Fortune would be good, I believe the problem or one expressed issue was that the cars were destroying the track surface, so a resurface with different material may be required.

Although I live in the north east I think it would be good to have a venue in the Glasgow area, for catchment and for ease of access, unfortunately I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[Mad Jock]

Jackie Stewart did indeed propose a new track at Edinburgh Airport, but despite what the article suggests, it obviously never happened.

I remember the plans, it was to be situated between the A8 and the "old" runway.

Being adjacent to a busy airport, the council apparently turned it down on the basis of noise!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/p...

Just consider how long ago this was, long before the trams were even dreamt of. We'll never know if it would have been a success, but it would have been nice to find out.

[tvrgit]

Mad Jock said:

Jackie Stewart did indeed propose a new track at Edinburgh Airport, but despite what the article suggests, it obviously never happened.

I remember the plans, it was to be situated between the A8 and the "old" runway.

Being adjacent to a busy airport, the council apparently turned it down on the basis of noise!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/p...

Just consider how long ago this was, long before the trams were even dreamt of. We'll never know if it would have been a success, but it would have been nice to find out.

I was on JYS's planning team for that proposal - it was a superb scheme, it was just ahead of its time, the Council were only half-way through their "10 years of preliminary procrastination" stage at the time. As you say it fitted between Gogar and the airport. The Council was also concerned about traffic - never mind that they proposed a new junction south to the M8 (that had still to be built) and that they were already starting to think about new rail / bus links to the airport. Didn't matter - "the roads are awfy busy but".

I remember JYS speaking at the Committee - he told them that Ford were backing this, they wanted a test facility, and it would be here or Japan. Edinburgh Council shrugged.

[Olivera]

IIRC the last proposal for a new circuit was in Dumfries & Galloway circa 3-4 years ago:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/234726/006...

Obviously nothing came of this either.

[GilesGuthrie]

doogz said:

http://www.williemiller.co.uk/forrestburn-internat...

My father was involved with that plan. It struggled to get the right level of traction in the face of sceptical financiers, a general poor reception from local media, and landowners who weren't keen to sell their plots.

I think that in this age, individual consortia would find it incredibly hard to get everything in place to build a new facility. Money, permissions, and public will are all difficult commodities to secure. I suspect that if a new circuit were to be built, it would have to be as a government initiative, before being sold off to the private sector as a completed entity.

Oh, and don't forget Kames, which plays host to rounds of the Scottish Speed Championship, and is a test venue for at least 1 WRC team.

[Corpulent Tosser]

Kames is good and one of my favourite drives, but it is a sprint track not a race circuit.

[cowboyecosse]

There was talk of the Nobel Race Park being built at Ardeer but I'm not sure if it ever got past the planning stage
http://www.pistonheads.com/gAssing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[dycecooper]

There has been several attempts to build circuits in the Aberdeen area but the proxy Aberdeen & Shire planning have always turned them down.
Klaas Zwart bought the land then submitted for permission, it too was denied so he opened one in Spain instead!

[Mad Jock]

While it may not appeal to the car nuts, there is still a proposal for a TT style race for motorcycles in the Borders. This was proposed a couple of years ago, and since then the (UK) government has proposed a relaxation of the restrictions placed by the Road Traffic Act to allow more road racing.

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/motoring/borders...

Of course, we still have the Jim Clark Rally, and that took over a decade to get permission to run that, but with the new proposals in place, perhaps the TT can happen sooner.

[Spitfire2]

FordMan1 said:

Did Jackie Stewart not plan on having Forestburn on the side of the M8 as the next circuit in Scotland with racing round the man made loch? Only problem being Forestburn is hardly wide enough for a go-kart...

I don't know about Jackie Stewart's involvement but original plans for Forrestburn were much bigger than the track and portaloo affair that it is these days.

http://www.mscc.org.uk/forrestburn/history

But its a great community who run the place with lots of fun to be had. Shame it never developed a bit further.

[Ian974]

I was surprised enough when the new driftland track managed to get built, I think they're already talking about extending that.
I'm not sure where another circuit would get built and other than track days, what specific demand there would be for one. Stranger things have happened, though I'd probably be more interested in an extension to knockhill.
With regards to the planned circuit of wales, by the sound of things so far, I wouldn't be surprised to see that go the same way as the donington park infield extension.

[sjabrown]

Scotland used to have Charterhall near Greenlaw. I think in the 1950s a few of the greats raced there. I've competed on the last motorsport event to run there: Charterhall Rally, in 2013.

[AMD87]

The other issue is noone is willing to travel to Scotland ether.

Btcc is maybe the only series that all the cars are more or less willing to travel when you look at some of the support series not all of them want to travel up, same with the bgt championship a few years ago too.