Arnold gets another one

[cas20]

They will need to look at spending some serious money on the Newmarket site. It looks very tired. I think Arnold may well be Phoenix landlord in Glasgow and Stirling. I think Grangemouth is still owned by the landlord (VW?)

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

They will need to look at spending some serious money on the Newmarket site. It looks very tired. I think Arnold may well be Phoenix landlord in Glasgow and Stirling. I think Grangemouth is still owned by the landlord (VW?)

What makes you think Arnold owns Phoenix's Whiteinch and Stirling sites? Surely he wouldn't let out premises to a rival motor dealer?

Grangemouth did used to be Western VW yes but I'm not sure who owns the land.

[cas20]

Arnold owns lots of dealerships which he lets out to other dealer groups. They are described as "stable investments" given the huge cash pile they are sitting on in AC's most recent financial accounts. I think in 2013-14 he acquired the freehold of BMW/Mini Kirkcaldy from the landlord as well as a number of dealer premises across the UK including premises in Stirling and Glasgow. I know that Phoenix sold their freehold outlets in a sale and leaseback so assume it was to Arnold. AC also had a look at the Fife Motor Village which is on sale by the current landlord. I was a car salesman/sales manager, but now work in dealer property. Other examples of groups letting sites to each other include Lookers who owns the ex-Shields sites which are let to Macklin etc It is very common.

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Arnold owns lots of dealerships which he lets out to other dealer groups. They are described as "stable investments" given the huge cash pile they are sitting on in AC's most recent financial accounts. I think in 2013-14 he acquired the freehold of BMW/Mini Kirkcaldy from the landlord as well as a number of dealer premises across the UK including premises in Stirling and Glasgow. I know that Phoenix sold their freehold outlets in a sale and leaseback so assume it was to Arnold. AC also had a look at the Fife Motor Village which is on sale by the current landlord. I was a car salesman/sales manager, but now work in dealer property. Other examples of groups letting sites to each other include Lookers who owns the ex-Shields sites which are let to Macklin etc It is very common.

I know its common, just didn't think Arnold's did it, I wouldve assumed if they owned all these dealerships, rather than lease them to other companies, they'd want to trade from them themselves.

I haven't been able to get a copy of Arnold's most recent financial statement and accounts, it was always handy to read to see where they'd bought land for future development and guess exactly what franchise and where it was going to be, although even they don't know the plans themselves sometimes, I remember when they bought the Gala Bingo land at Linwood and moved the Ford franchise across the retail park to there, their financial accounts said they'd recently acquired additional premises for development adjacent to their existing dealerships for a "dual franchise" dealership yet it's just a Ford franchise.

What dealerships are leased to the dealer by Arnolds? Got any certain examples?

Ive always thought the Halbeath Motor Park would suit one dealer group operating all the different showrooms and franchises because of its layout, the way the very similar Phoenix Stirling sites are, I guess that's how both were originally intended to be when constructed on behalf of Abercromby.

Ps I think Lookers may have now sold the Macklin sites they acquired when they bought out Shields Land Rover, I remember seeing their financial accounts and it said they'd paid £8.75m for Shields but that included various properties leased to other companies but that they had now been disposes of which had generated money back for them further reducing the price paid for the Land Rover dealership, obviously they kept hold of both the former Toyota sites one of which is now Hamilton Audi Approved, the other is being refurbished to become VW Van Centre Glasgow West (even though Darnley is south Glasgow not west) but I got the impression they were forced into doing something with those sites as they couldn't flog them, they were marketed through Rapleys for quite a while for either sale/to let before they took the decision to reopen them.

[cas20]

Apart from the two I have mentioned, there are a fair few in the north of England and English midlands that I am aware of. It is good use of their cash as provides a nice return on investment and they can always start punting cars from them should the tenant vacate. Phoenix Glasgow is looking a bit tired and in need of a sprucing up .....and might well trade better from another part of the city in years to come.

[HendryG]

Yeah that site does look a bit of a tip, I suspect that's part of the reason they lost Kia and it went to Arnolds at Springburn, either that or Kia offered Phoenix the chance to keep it by investing money in that/another site and they weren't willing to whereas Arnolds willnspend the money when others won't, ive also noticed a lot of Kia dealerships are also Fiat dealerships, a lot of Arnolds are both Flatland Kia, as well as other dealers. Anyway I digress, I can't understand why Phoenix never moved Kia and Suzuki into the main Honda showroom rather than the wee greenhouse type thing Suzuki is still in.

Just talking about that area, ive seen plans for an Arnold Clark Ford Van centre opposite the 3 storey ex Machargs site, on Dilwara Ave where Machargs Parts Centre used to be before it moved to the other end of South Street in the massive warehouse.

Also seen plans for the recently acquired ex Evans Halshaw in Ek, they include bricking over the 4 workshop bay shutters, removing the parts and service department completely and making the whole building just showroom extended from 2 cars space to 7. Not sure where they plan to move the workshop and service centre to, possibly the Toyota and Motorstore site at Queensway Motor Park?

[cas20]

John Clark have bought over the LandRover franchise in Elgin to give their fourth LandRover franchise.

The Vauxhall site at EK is a small site and sits next to the nine franchise Park's multi site (Honda, Suzuki, Fiat, Citroen, Renault, Dacia, Peugeot, Kia and Nissan. Not sure there is much room to expand, although the office block occupying the adjacent site (Braeview House?) does have some empty units and could make a huge Vauxhall site if Clark fancied buying it and expanding his EK operation. Park's might find lots of pre-reg of their franchise marques up for sale next door!

[cas20]

EasternWestern advertising for staff for their new Nissan Dunfermline branch

http://www.ewcareers.co.uk/vacancies/sales-executi...

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

EasternWestern advertising for staff for their new Nissan Dunfermline branch

http://www.ewcareers.co.uk/vacancies/sales-executi...

Doesn't come as a massive surprise does it.

The question is whether or not Peugeot appoint another dealer in Dunfermline or whether they stick with the dealer in Kirkcaldy as their only Fife branch.

Also noticed Pendragon have been selling off a lot of sites in England recently, coupled with the sales of EK Vauxhall, and the Jag and Land Rover ones to John Clark a couple of years ago and closures of some others in Scotland in recent years (Renault Nissan in Aberdeen, dropping the Peugeot franchise at Sighthill in Edinburgh, Renault Livingston etc) im now wondering if the next move could be to flog the relatively small amount of sites they have left in Scotland.

I also thought we would see Taggarts get bigger now that Lookers have been spending money on other aspects of their Scottish operations like Lomond Audi expansion and VW Van Centre in Darnley. To mirror their wide representation in England and Northern Ireland.

[cas20]

Lookers' boss Andy Bruce says AM100 group would expand in Scotland

http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2015/08/...

[750turbo]

cas20 said:

Lookers' boss Andy Bruce says AM100 group would expand in Scotland

http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2015/08/...

I was reading that earlier, very interesting! (We do some work for them, and I am the only one that has a "Scots" passport apparently )

They are a good company to deal with.

[Craigie]

The other day there I saw a "share" on facebook with someone having a right go at Arnold Clark. AC responded which then led to, literally, hundreds, of replies of stories from people about their bad service from AC.

Was quite funny to read in a way, the poor sods that run the AC social media team must have had a bit of a WTF moment!

[S2red]

Used to be a site dedicated to slagging AC off

[Drive Blind]

S2red said:

Used to be a site dedicated to slagging AC off

used to be if you googled Arnold Clark a site called arnoldclarksucks.com was the top hit. Loads of stories from customers and employees detailing the crap service and all dodgy scams they got up to. This would have been about 10 years ago.

I'm guessing AC took legal action to get it removed.

[mph1977]

S2red said:

Lost franchise was phrase used

Not Scotland but Charles Warner in Lincoln had some kind of a disagreement with Vauxhall and lost the franchise and at least for the moment approved repairer status ...

[cas20]

Drive Blind, have a look at the posts to page on the Arnold Clark Facebook page
They are always interesting lol

[750turbo]

cas20 said:

Drive Blind, have a look at the posts to page on the Arnold Clark Facebook page
They are always interesting lol

Just seen this:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Caitlin Connolly ‎Arnold Clark

3years and 2 days ago I visited Arnold Clark and purchased a vauxhall corsa sxi 1.2 08 plate. The salesman sorted everything, even down to my insurance for me. He made sure everything was sorted and that I was fully comp to keep in line with the policies and paperwork. 3years ago today my partner and I found ourselves lying in a heap on a busy road after driving along when a tyre fell off the car and caused it to roll 4 times without a sign of any airbags. When I contacted the insurance company to inform them of the crash, they informed me that the salesman from Arnold Clark had checked my insurance knowing it was only 3rd party and continued to sell me the policies and led me to believe I was fully comp. So there was nothing they could do. We were sent to the hospital for further checks and upon leaving with a broken collarbone, numerous head injuries and more, I received a phone call from the salesman at Arnold Clark. He informed me he was aware of the accident and was sorry to hear but I was not to contact him further because there was nothing they could do. 3 years later, I have had to continue paying a significant monthly payment for a car I had for 2 days. I just want to make everyone aware of my situation because I know the stress and pressure it has put on me and my family. I wouldn't wish this on anyone else."
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, it could be true, or it could be rubbish.

[HendryG]

I saw the thing about Lookers yesterday, however I'm struggling to think of any businesses not already owned by big groups (that probably wouldn't be keen to sell) that they would want to buy.

Most of the volume and prestige brands they'd be interested in, in good locations or not out of town are already owned collectively by Arnie, Halshaw, Parks, Macrae and Dick, Peter Vardy, John Clark, Eastern Western or Macklin. I.E. the big players who are unlikely to sell off anywhere.

Unless they go for things like Hawco VW/Audi up north, or Regency/Autovision Vauxhall again up north, the rest are small more "rural" sites.

[SandyDrew]

HendryG said:

I saw the thing about Lookers yesterday, however I'm struggling to think of any businesses not already owned by big groups (that probably wouldn't be keen to sell) that they would want to buy.

Most of the volume and prestige brands they'd be interested in, in good locations or not out of town are already owned collectively by Arnie, Halshaw, Parks, Macrae and Dick, Peter Vardy, John Clark, Eastern Western or Macklin. I.E. the big players who are unlikely to sell off anywhere.

Unless they go for things like Hawco VW/Audi up north, or Regency/Autovision Vauxhall again up north, the rest are small more "rural" sites.

There's still a few local small groups in decent locations...

Struans
Ingram
Barnetts
Cameron
Hawco
SDM
Inch
Hardie
Peoples

But as you say, if not willing to sell there's nothing to buy!

[cas20]

alangla said:

Wonder if Phoenix have sorted out their MoT situation yet - I tried to book my bike into the Stirling branch last month, but apparently they could only do servicing, not MoTs, they were using an indie elsewhere in Springkerse for their bike MoT work. Bit of a surprise for a Honda main dealer.

Looks like Phoenix have ditched the Honda Motorcycles franchise in Stirling. It is gone from their website and the Honda site.