New Drink Drive limits
Discussion
Kenny Macaskill says today that this will save lives.
Can anyone point me in the direction of stats that show that fatal accidents happened when the driver was in the 50-80mg range?
Also, as people will still drink one evening and drive the next morning, rather than trying to put across a "just don't drink if you ever plan to drive again ever in your life", would it not be better for them to try an use specific examples?
Like, "f you drink 3 x 125cl glasses of wine and you finish drinking at midnight you will still have alcohol in your system at 8am" type of message?
Can anyone point me in the direction of stats that show that fatal accidents happened when the driver was in the 50-80mg range?
Also, as people will still drink one evening and drive the next morning, rather than trying to put across a "just don't drink if you ever plan to drive again ever in your life", would it not be better for them to try an use specific examples?
Like, "f you drink 3 x 125cl glasses of wine and you finish drinking at midnight you will still have alcohol in your system at 8am" type of message?
well the lowering of the limit is actually bringing us more in line with the Limits in the rest of the EU as the UK is quite lenient compared to the EU.
As for "just don't drink if you ever plan to drive again ever in your life" isnt what they are saying, what they mean is that if you go out for a drink its best not to drive no matter how much you drink and to wait till your sure your level is down before driving which is what the government has been saying for donkey years before the idea of reducing the limit ever came up.
With "If you drink 3 x 125cl glasses of wine and you finish drinking at midnight you will still have alcohol in your system at 8am", again this is another thing the government has been saying for a while that if you drink the night before you are likely to still be over the next morning obviously depending on how much you drink of course. Hell they even keep making it public knowledge how much an average man/woman's body can dissipate every hour but even this can vary slightly from person to person.
Quite frankly what the government has been saying for years is common sense but unfortunately in our country common sense is so rare its a super power, personally if i have a drink i dont drive afterwards even if its just half a bottle of cider (330ml) and also make sure i dont drive the next day as well to be safe. Drink Driving is something that needs cracked down on more and the only ones who complain are the drink drivers themselves as im sure most people dont drive shortly after being out drinking.
As for "just don't drink if you ever plan to drive again ever in your life" isnt what they are saying, what they mean is that if you go out for a drink its best not to drive no matter how much you drink and to wait till your sure your level is down before driving which is what the government has been saying for donkey years before the idea of reducing the limit ever came up.
With "If you drink 3 x 125cl glasses of wine and you finish drinking at midnight you will still have alcohol in your system at 8am", again this is another thing the government has been saying for a while that if you drink the night before you are likely to still be over the next morning obviously depending on how much you drink of course. Hell they even keep making it public knowledge how much an average man/woman's body can dissipate every hour but even this can vary slightly from person to person.
Quite frankly what the government has been saying for years is common sense but unfortunately in our country common sense is so rare its a super power, personally if i have a drink i dont drive afterwards even if its just half a bottle of cider (330ml) and also make sure i dont drive the next day as well to be safe. Drink Driving is something that needs cracked down on more and the only ones who complain are the drink drivers themselves as im sure most people dont drive shortly after being out drinking.
CJ1987 said:
well the lowering of the limit is actually bringing us more in line with the Limits in the rest of the EU as the UK is quite lenient compared to the EU.
As for "just don't drink if you ever plan to drive again ever in your life" isnt what they are saying, what they mean is that if you go out for a drink its best not to drive no matter how much you drink and to wait till your sure your level is down before driving which is what the government has been saying for donkey years before the idea of reducing the limit ever came up.
With "If you drink 3 x 125cl glasses of wine and you finish drinking at midnight you will still have alcohol in your system at 8am", again this is another thing the government has been saying for a while that if you drink the night before you are likely to still be over the next morning obviously depending on how much you drink of course. Hell they even keep making it public knowledge how much an average man/woman's body can dissipate every hour but even this can vary slightly from person to person.
Quite frankly what the government has been saying for years is common sense but unfortunately in our country common sense is so rare its a super power, personally if i have a drink i dont drive afterwards even if its just half a bottle of cider (330ml) and also make sure i dont drive the next day as well to be safe. Drink Driving is something that needs cracked down on more and the only ones who complain are the drink drivers themselves as im sure most people dont drive shortly after being out drinking.
Lets raise a few pointsAs for "just don't drink if you ever plan to drive again ever in your life" isnt what they are saying, what they mean is that if you go out for a drink its best not to drive no matter how much you drink and to wait till your sure your level is down before driving which is what the government has been saying for donkey years before the idea of reducing the limit ever came up.
With "If you drink 3 x 125cl glasses of wine and you finish drinking at midnight you will still have alcohol in your system at 8am", again this is another thing the government has been saying for a while that if you drink the night before you are likely to still be over the next morning obviously depending on how much you drink of course. Hell they even keep making it public knowledge how much an average man/woman's body can dissipate every hour but even this can vary slightly from person to person.
Quite frankly what the government has been saying for years is common sense but unfortunately in our country common sense is so rare its a super power, personally if i have a drink i dont drive afterwards even if its just half a bottle of cider (330ml) and also make sure i dont drive the next day as well to be safe. Drink Driving is something that needs cracked down on more and the only ones who complain are the drink drivers themselves as im sure most people dont drive shortly after being out drinking.
point 1
60mg/ltr in scotland = 1 year ban a large fine
60mg/ltr in france = 6 points and small fine
So where is the alignment with europe?
Point 2
i am far more likely to get killed by a drunk person on a night out on the town then i am to be killed by a drunk person on the roads?
So why not make it illegal to be over 80mg/ltr anywhere in a public space as it would save far more lives and far more money
McWigglebum4th said:
Lets raise a few points
point 1
60mg/ltr in scotland = 1 year ban a large fine
60mg/ltr in france = 6 points and small fine
So where is the alignment with europe?
Point 2
i am far more likely to get killed by a drunk person on a night out on the town then i am to be killed by a drunk person on the roads?
So why not make it illegal to be over 80mg/ltr anywhere in a public space as it would save far more lives and far more money
well if you actually read what i said, i said that the limits were getting brought in line and not the punishment and no way did i talk about any punishments either in UK or in Europe.point 1
60mg/ltr in scotland = 1 year ban a large fine
60mg/ltr in france = 6 points and small fine
So where is the alignment with europe?
Point 2
i am far more likely to get killed by a drunk person on a night out on the town then i am to be killed by a drunk person on the roads?
So why not make it illegal to be over 80mg/ltr anywhere in a public space as it would save far more lives and far more money
For future reference your point about france is wrong as a quick google search will bring these 2 pages up:
http://www.safetravel.co.uk/europedrinkdrivinglimi...
If you scroll down you will see most of europe is at 0.5 or 0.2 whilst we are at 0.8 and in some cases its even lower. For example in turkey its zero if its a vehicle that can carry passengers, in germany it drops to 0.3 if you are involved with any other offence and in spain if you passed your test within 2 years its 0.1.
http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/drivi...
This link shows Frances laws since you brought them up, for 0.8 and over (our current limit) you could get 2 years in prison, 4,500 euro fine and 3 years suspended license with 6 penalty points which goes to show compared to EU we are more lenient when it comes to drink driving. As for 0.6 yes its 6 points and a small fine but it also carries 3 years suspended license which you left out. This can all be found on google easily so thanks for reinforcing my point that in both terms of LIMIT and PUNISHMENT the UK as it stands today is more lenient than other countries in the EU.
CJ1987
In McWiggle's world, anything SNP* is automatically bad.
It doesn't matter if it is or it isn't, it is just bad.
And you can argue till you are blue in the face but he is right and anyone with a different view is wrong.
In McWiggle's world, anything SNP* is automatically bad.
It doesn't matter if it is or it isn't, it is just bad.
And you can argue till you are blue in the face but he is right and anyone with a different view is wrong.
- I'm not actually sure if it is just the SNP he's against or if he's against anything Scottish.
eh, it is illegal to be over 80mg/100ml in the UK, Ireland, Malta and Luxembourg atm and everywhere else is 0.5/100ml or lower, just some countries give a jail sentence just for being over and others dont also i hate to point out the bloody obvious but the fact you can get "arrested" , "Convicted" and "its dealt with by the courts" indicates it is illegal. It's not like the government spends a ton of money on drink driving campaigns every year for the past few decades to let all the Police forces to run these campaigns..........
GoneAnon said:
CJ1987
In McWiggle's world, anything SNP* is automatically bad.
It doesn't matter if it is or it isn't, it is just bad.
And you can argue till you are blue in the face but he is right and anyone with a different view is wrong.
lol, thanks for the advice GoneAnon. I think i'll stop bringing logic and facts to this anymore In McWiggle's world, anything SNP* is automatically bad.
It doesn't matter if it is or it isn't, it is just bad.
And you can argue till you are blue in the face but he is right and anyone with a different view is wrong.
- I'm not actually sure if it is just the SNP he's against or if he's against anything Scottish.
The very rough rule of thumb is that the body dissipates 1 unit of alcohol every hour from the hour after you start drinking. So if you drink 4 pints of normal beer appronx 8 units then within 9 hours from commencing drinking you should have no trace of alcohol in your system.
Variables are:
male/female
Weight
Age
If alcohol taken with food or alone.
There are others but this isn't a science paper. I use an expert on these issues for court.
Most commonly one gets the I had 3 pints of beer last night but my count 8 hours later is 130 over 35! Amazingly it is usually difficult to get defence witnesses to confirm that level of drinking.
If you buy alcohol in a bar it will be measured out. If drinking at home or at friends then most people don't know exactly what quantity they have drunk.
So to quote the earlier example: 3 x 125ml of wine is about half a bottle. Of normal strength wine say 12% that would be about 4 units. If you finish drinking at midnight then by 5 am your body should be clear.
It is good that it brings the subject into focus and hopefully makes people discuss it and think more about it.
The issue with Some countries in Europe is not so much what the limits are, but rather how the law is enforced and the consistency of enforcement.
Turkey Zero. Well how is that enforced and how many people are caught? Are the police consistent in enforcing or turn a blind eye?
If people choose not to drive when drinking any alcohol as some of my finds do, then that is there choice. What we shouldn't do is over reactant consider this the BIG issue. More people get caught DD in summer than xmas.
I do not favour random Police anything. Hello sir you prove you have not committed an offence!
I hope this clarifies things for some people.
Variables are:
male/female
Weight
Age
If alcohol taken with food or alone.
There are others but this isn't a science paper. I use an expert on these issues for court.
Most commonly one gets the I had 3 pints of beer last night but my count 8 hours later is 130 over 35! Amazingly it is usually difficult to get defence witnesses to confirm that level of drinking.
If you buy alcohol in a bar it will be measured out. If drinking at home or at friends then most people don't know exactly what quantity they have drunk.
So to quote the earlier example: 3 x 125ml of wine is about half a bottle. Of normal strength wine say 12% that would be about 4 units. If you finish drinking at midnight then by 5 am your body should be clear.
It is good that it brings the subject into focus and hopefully makes people discuss it and think more about it.
The issue with Some countries in Europe is not so much what the limits are, but rather how the law is enforced and the consistency of enforcement.
Turkey Zero. Well how is that enforced and how many people are caught? Are the police consistent in enforcing or turn a blind eye?
If people choose not to drive when drinking any alcohol as some of my finds do, then that is there choice. What we shouldn't do is over reactant consider this the BIG issue. More people get caught DD in summer than xmas.
I do not favour random Police anything. Hello sir you prove you have not committed an offence!
I hope this clarifies things for some people.
Edited by paulqv on Tuesday 18th November 08:22
CJ1987 said:
lol, thanks for the advice GoneAnon. I think i'll stop bringing logic and facts to this anymore
I would welcome some logic and facts in this.So far we have had zero detail on accidents in the 50-80mg/ltr range
All we have had is think of the children bulls
tIt is the SNP wanting to be seen to be doing something instead of actually doing something.
As for the not driving for 2 days if you have had half a bottle of cider
I hope you never drive with a cold or slightly distracted
Edited by McWigglebum4th on Tuesday 18th November 05:20
Speaking as an SNP supporter, this is one of the things that hacks me off about the SNP. Stop pissing about with footling little things like this and concentrate on the bigger issues.
This measure will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem, which is those drivers who persistently and knowingly drive while way over the limit.
After 5th December I'll instantly be a criminal and a menace to society if I accompany my pub lunch with a pint of Deuchar's. I'll be classed alongside some pissed-up ahole who's decided to drive home after a night on the batter. Where's the justice in that?
This measure will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem, which is those drivers who persistently and knowingly drive while way over the limit.
After 5th December I'll instantly be a criminal and a menace to society if I accompany my pub lunch with a pint of Deuchar's. I'll be classed alongside some pissed-up a
hole who's decided to drive home after a night on the batter. Where's the justice in that?CJ1987 said:
well the lowering of the limit is actually bringing us more in line with the Limits in the rest of the EU as the UK is quite lenient compared to the EU.
It's not necessarily the punishment or limit but the policing and enforcement of that limit and therefore the public perception of the chances of getting caught. The UK is pretty good at the enforcement part so it would be interesting to know what the rates of drink driving are compared with that in Europe.I fail to see how this will stop drink driving. People who already flout the law on this are unlikely to stop are they? All this is doing is making criminals of people who have a small amount (i.e. within the previous limits) and then drive somewhere. OK it may stop the people in the latter category but surely the problem is those in the former.
Maybe I'm over-simplifying this, or being overly cynical but I see it a bit like the minimum pricing on alcohol - trying to patch up the symptoms of alcohol abuse but not actually address the root cause.
Maybe I'm over-simplifying this, or being overly cynical but I see it a bit like the minimum pricing on alcohol - trying to patch up the symptoms of alcohol abuse but not actually address the root cause.
I am not for a moment condoning drink driving, but I don't see why we need a lower limit in Scotland (unless there are stats that say that lots of people are crashing between the current and proposed new limit which so far I've not seen). It will catch out those who have a pint with their dinner or more of the morning afters while making no difference to the people who wilfully and quite knowingly drink drive. I can't help but think that having lost the referendum the SNP are now just going to do whatever they can to make some sort of show of strength and to be different to the rest of the UK.
Halmyre said:
Speaking as an SNP supporter, this is one of the things that hacks me off about the SNP. Stop pissing about with footling little things like this and concentrate on the bigger issues.
This measure will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem, which is those drivers who persistently and knowingly drive while way over the limit.
After 5th December I'll instantly be a criminal and a menace to society if I accompany my pub lunch with a pint of Deuchar's. I'll be classed alongside some pissed-up ahole who's decided to drive home after a night on the batter. Where's the justice in that?
Totally agree with your comment as a fellow SNP supporter. I think that Kenny MacAskill is on some sort of mission as he does seem to meddle in things that aren't broken. I'm sure Police Scotland will love the new targets of enforcement they will have to meet. The motorist up here is certainly being targeted these days what with this and the proliferation of new speed cameras - big brother is watching.This measure will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem, which is those drivers who persistently and knowingly drive while way over the limit.
After 5th December I'll instantly be a criminal and a menace to society if I accompany my pub lunch with a pint of Deuchar's. I'll be classed alongside some pissed-up a
hole who's decided to drive home after a night on the batter. Where's the justice in that?PO
plastic orange said:
Halmyre said:
Speaking as an SNP supporter, this is one of the things that hacks me off about the SNP. Stop pissing about with footling little things like this and concentrate on the bigger issues.
This measure will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem, which is those drivers who persistently and knowingly drive while way over the limit.
After 5th December I'll instantly be a criminal and a menace to society if I accompany my pub lunch with a pint of Deuchar's. I'll be classed alongside some pissed-up ahole who's decided to drive home after a night on the batter. Where's the justice in that?
Totally agree with your comment as a fellow SNP supporter. I think that Kenny MacAskill is on some sort of mission as he does seem to meddle in things that aren't broken. I'm sure Police Scotland will love the new targets of enforcement they will have to meet. The motorist up here is certainly being targeted these days what with this and the proliferation of new speed cameras - big brother is watching.This measure will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem, which is those drivers who persistently and knowingly drive while way over the limit.
After 5th December I'll instantly be a criminal and a menace to society if I accompany my pub lunch with a pint of Deuchar's. I'll be classed alongside some pissed-up a
hole who's decided to drive home after a night on the batter. Where's the justice in that?PO
It will make f
k all difference apart from making those with an IQ of a sponge think the SNP are hard hitting heavy weights who are solving the problem of those 3 times over the limit.You want an eye opener then look at murders related to alcohol compared to road deaths related to alcohol
Cheers for the input PaulQV and the other comments.
Just to clarify, I hate drink driving, especially since I nearly got killed by one who wrapped his car round a lampost. Currently I would drink after one bottle of Miller or a pint of lager shandy. No more.
What my concern is the morning after - for those that say don't drive till its out your system how do you know when that is? With speeding, red lights, mobile phones, seatbelts you are knowingly doing something that is breaking the law. How can you say for certain that you are under or over limit the morning after?
I appreciate Pauls's comments and that is the common sense approach re 1 unit an hour - however the Govt insist on this message of don't drink and drive which I think kind of will get ignored as being "unrealistic". One of the earlier posters said if they had one cider they wouldn't drive the next day?
I realise that they dont want to encourage people to drink to the limit but if this is about educating drivers, then why not give us the tools to accurately work figures out and why is there not calibrated breathalyser kits available?
I also am a fan of SNP but not when it comes to crime. Between the Offensive behaviour at football act and this, I feel that Police Scotland are basically doing what they want (remember their initial refusal to back down re armed police).
All the unmarked Astras and Focus in Glasgow that have been pulling seatbelt and mobile phone issues in last two years will now be doing random stops all day long and breathalysing folks to get their convictions up and for Kenny MacAskill to proclaim how many "killer drivers" they have taken off the road.
Just to clarify, I hate drink driving, especially since I nearly got killed by one who wrapped his car round a lampost. Currently I would drink after one bottle of Miller or a pint of lager shandy. No more.
What my concern is the morning after - for those that say don't drive till its out your system how do you know when that is? With speeding, red lights, mobile phones, seatbelts you are knowingly doing something that is breaking the law. How can you say for certain that you are under or over limit the morning after?
I appreciate Pauls's comments and that is the common sense approach re 1 unit an hour - however the Govt insist on this message of don't drink and drive which I think kind of will get ignored as being "unrealistic". One of the earlier posters said if they had one cider they wouldn't drive the next day?
I realise that they dont want to encourage people to drink to the limit but if this is about educating drivers, then why not give us the tools to accurately work figures out and why is there not calibrated breathalyser kits available?
I also am a fan of SNP but not when it comes to crime. Between the Offensive behaviour at football act and this, I feel that Police Scotland are basically doing what they want (remember their initial refusal to back down re armed police).
All the unmarked Astras and Focus in Glasgow that have been pulling seatbelt and mobile phone issues in last two years will now be doing random stops all day long and breathalysing folks to get their convictions up and for Kenny MacAskill to proclaim how many "killer drivers" they have taken off the road.
http://archive.etsc.eu/documents/Drink_Driving_Tow...
I think answers many questions posed on here. the difference on capacity between 50 and 80 are likely to be very small indeed in relation to capability however it maybe more about public perception than actual safety.
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