3/3 offshore

[u25kr]

So who is moving to an equal time rota and who isn't?

We, (Talisman), have been told we are moving to a 3/3 rota from July. I have heard that Taqa, Nexen & BP have came out and stated they are not moving ot equal time. Can anyone confirm this and the reasons why?

[northnoble]

Can't confirm who else (although a lot are considering) but the reason is simple......COST!

Reduced workforce required.....gets rid of the third shift
Reduced logistics......less flights

Lots of arguments against, safety, productivity, welfare......but right now its about survival!

[u25kr]

Yes i understand the reasons to go equal time. I meant reasons not to. I heard that BP came out against equal time on health grounds and would like to get confirmation of that.

[H20MRV]

Correct!!! And of course they can play the safety card, less flights less chance of a ditching..

northnoble said:

Can't confirm who else (although a lot are considering) but the reason is simple......COST!

Reduced workforce required.....gets rid of the third shift
Reduced logistics......less flights

Lots of arguments against, safety, productivity, welfare......but right now its about survival!

[frank hovis]

Internally so far Taqa will keep to its current rota
It's seen as too much of benefit and has the potential to be used to a tool to attract offshore guys as taqa has still a couple offshore vacancies

[RichTT]

As an ex-third party hand, now turned Operator employee I don't really have much sympathy with the moaners. Especially the pissing and moaning from the platform hands in the tea shack who are on 2/3. Some were complaining that they'd have to take their holidays during their time off. God forbid! I have spent 10 years running ad hoc schedules here there and everywhere. Days offshore in a year were varied from 130 to 220 on my busiest. Longest was a 6 week hitch with 8 days off afterwards. But I never complained, because I was getting paid, I had a job to do, and you take advantage of a busy period to see you through the quiet ones. Rough with the smooth and all that.

Now I work for an operator, with a steady 3/3 rotation and I couldn't be happier. I'd like to think that my CV showed that I worked hard, had a lot of varied experience from working all over and seeing a lot of different operations. What's wrong with an equal time rota? You could have a two week holiday in between your work hitch and still be fine for getting on/off. You still only work 6 months of the year. With word of all the layoffs I would be at the front of the queue volunteering to go on a 3/3 rotation.

[eck c]

Am always a bit miffed when health grounds get brought up, if you work international chances are you will be on a 4/4 regardless which operator or drilling contractor your working for.

[dingg]

RichTT said:

As an ex-third party hand, now turned Operator employee I don't really have much sympathy with the moaners. Especially the pissing and moaning from the platform hands in the tea shack who are on 2/3. Some were complaining that they'd have to take their holidays during their time off. God forbid! I have spent 10 years running ad hoc schedules here there and everywhere. Days offshore in a year were varied from 130 to 220 on my busiest. Longest was a 6 week hitch with 8 days off afterwards. But I never complained, because I was getting paid, I had a job to do, and you take advantage of a busy period to see you through the quiet ones. Rough with the smooth and all that.

Now I work for an operator, with a steady 3/3 rotation and I couldn't be happier. I'd like to think that my CV showed that I worked hard, had a lot of varied experience from working all over and seeing a lot of different operations. What's wrong with an equal time rota? You could have a two week holiday in between your work hitch and still be fine for getting on/off. You still only work 6 months of the year. With word of all the layoffs I would be at the front of the queue volunteering to go on a 3/3 rotation.

I too have worked in the 'oil game' since 1984 - I have worked 3 months on and one month off (Arabian Gulf ,it was st! but I was young and money took priority) equal time 4 wks rotation - Angola , 2 and 2 equal rotation N Sea.In addition to as and when required during a two year spell on drillers in the N sea (longest trip 5 weeks on the treasure seeker)

The last 18 years I have been 2 on 3 off - I have missed out on much better employment opportunities/advancement simply because of the rota.

you CANNOT buy time off - the more time off the better - anyone who is being shafted with 3/3 rota should fight it as hard as they can (3 weeks of nights? no fking way!!!) , because price of oil is going to be back towards the top range in a year or so and do you really think that 3/3 will only be for the short term ?

We have fought hard to get these rotas 2/3, holidays etc. after years of equal time - do not give them up too readily IMO

[onlynik]

eck c said:

Am always a bit miffed when health grounds get brought up, if you work international chances are you will be on a 4/4 regardless which operator or drilling contractor your working for.

Yup, 4/4 in Angola. I actually preferred it as 4 weeks off meant lots of time to have a family holiday and still have time to get other work done at home.

[u25kr]

AS i see it the north sea will suffer from this. If you were working 2/3 and get moved to a 3/3 roata with no pay increase then you are better off moving abroad as pay is more there than in the UK.

[Corpulent Tosser]

onlynik said:

Yup, 4/4 in Angola. I actually preferred it as 4 weeks off meant lots of time to have a family holiday and still have time to get other work done at home.

Me too, 4/4 Angola, worst thing about it is the drive to/from work every day, equal time works for me, time to get things done at home and take holidays, importantly too it gives me the money to do these things.

With the current climate in the industry, rate cuts and layoffs I wouldn't be fighting too hard against it.

[dingg]

Those who extol the virtues of equal time ,

1 have you ever worked a 2/3 rota to compare

or 2 have you ever thought why Norway has a 2/4 schedule (and why is it affordable to the same oil companies in Norway with the associated higher salaries and not in UK)

Edited by dingg on Wednesday 11th February 10:09

[onlynik]

dingg said:

Those who extol the virtues of equal time ,

1 have you ever worked a 2/3 rota to compare

or 2 have you ever thought why Norway has a 2/4 schedule (and why is it affordable to the same oil companies in Norway with the associated higher salaries and not in UK)

Edited by dingg on Wednesday 11th February 10:09

No I've not worked 2/3, however I have also worked 6/2, so equal time is a bonus.

I have also worked on a Norwegian rig (in Angola), where the Norwegians were doing 4/4 too, or even up to 6 weeks offshore due to visa issues.

[dingg]

onlynik said:

No I've not worked 2/3, however I have also worked 6/2, so equal time is a bonus.

I have also worked on a Norwegian rig (in Angola), where the Norwegians were doing 4/4 too, or even up to 6 weeks offshore due to visa issues.

I can see your viewpoint (you having never enjoyed the benefits of a decent rota, if you had worked a 'good' rota your view would be different I can assure you) BUT , do you really think if people give up the terms they've managed to achieve after all these years fighting for them (ie wtd court cases , hard won holiday entitlement etc) that the oil companies will give them back readily once the Price Of Oil recovers??

Once again, the same oil companies can afford to allow their Norwegian Employees(contractors) a 2/4 rota with greater salaries than their comparable colleagues in rest of the N Sea - does that not make you question why?

Would you not like the same treatment as those employed on the Norwegian shelf??

[BurblingBrownOne]

I worked for 11 years on an ad-hoc rota as a service hand, never any guarantee of time off apart from any holidays booked.Trips ranged from 1 or 2 days to 5 weeks, with 1 -2 days to 2 weeks off between trips, plus some work in the office whilst back onshore.
Admittedly the more days I worked the more pay I received, so I can understand why anyone on a fixed salary and schedule wouldn't welcome any changes.
However working all over the world on various different rigs of various levels of sttyness I regularly encountered the same sense of entitlement mentioned by others from those crews on an fixed rota. Always moaning that someone, somewhere else was on a better deal...that's life...deal with it. If you don't like only working half the year then try joining the majority of the working population who live for the weekends only.
Amazed that equal time rotation could be viewed as a hardship by some, 3 weeks off sounds pretty dam good to me, could accomplish a lot in in my private life in 3 weeks to make up for the 3 weeks offshore.
I also think it's unfair to make comparisons versus Norway, the Norway situation is pretty unique and whist fair play to them for the heavily unionized and protected workforce and regulations they have offshore, it just inst transferable to other parts of the world, at least not if companies want to turn a profit.
Being able to operate facilities with just 2 crews on a 3/3 rotation versus having to employ 3 x crews on 2/3 seems a no-brainer to me, I don't really think that it is asking too much. With the Oil price as it is you cant be surprised companies are making cuts to their cost base, they have to in order to survive. With many projects getting shelved and plenty of people already being made redundant Id be relieved just to hang onto my job.

[jamieduff1981]

Norway is struggling financially at the moment. Statoil have been on a programme of reducing expense since before the oil price drop. It's a crap example to aspire to because economically it isn't working very well and wasn't before the downturn either.

Those of us supporting and sustaining the industry onshore have had job losses and rate cuts because of this downturn. Offshore need to take their turn too.

2/3 is a logistical and resourcing PITA. Also most of the risk working offshore IS the flights there and back so less flying actually does expose workers to less risk overall.

[jamieduff1981]

creationracing said:

I've always been an ad-hoc employee for a variety of companies. Officially, I get to take a Sunday back if I work it offshore.

So if I do a three weeker I get 3 days off. If I work Monday - Saturday, I get nowt. I tallied 150 days offshore in 2014, plus 40 onshore, not including office work, training and admin from home.

I'd certainly be happy with a 3/3 rotation if a suitable one were to present itself.

Would I not be happy getting the same treatment as those on rotas?

Well, that's up to me. If I start to feel aggrieved I can go do something else, as I'm sure there'll be a graduate or an apprentice looking for a start and would take my job in a snap.

I think there's a disproportionate level of self-entitlement among offshore workers, be they vendors, 2/3, 3/3 or whatever. A sense of "we deserve this because XYZ get it". For now, the gravy train's come to a halt. There's more workers than there are positions so the companies have more leverage to dictate their own terms. When things come good and they need to recruit, they'll have to start offering attractive terms again. Up and down, swings and roundabouts. It's the nature of the beast.

Plus, I think we as a demographic are just never bloody happy anyway.

Those used to a 2hr flight home from North Alwyn say it's an utter disgrace if they go via Sumburgh and take 3hrs.
Those used to a 1hr flight home from the Elgin say it's an utter disgrace if they have to spend an extra 30 mins picking up the Franklin shuttle flight personnel.
Those used to a 25min flight home from Buzzard say it's an utter disgrace if they have to stop on a driller, and end up taking a whole 45min to get home.

Human nature. We always want more/better/easier. It's just a shame we're in a period of less/worse/tougher right now and there will be those who cannot accept that.

Edited by creationracing on Wednesday 11th February 16:04

Edited by creationracing on Wednesday 11th February 16:05

Nail on head.

Self entitlement sums it up entirely. Sorry guys but the market has changed. It really isn't clear what we're all going to be doing onshore as the current engineering work finishes. Offshore won't see that yet. Core crew may just continue to sit in the teashack complaining how hard they have it, but those constructing projects for service companies will be after your jobs shortly because there aren't going to be any projects in the medium term to construct - and incidently none for onshore engineering to engineer nor project services to serve nor the supply chain to supply to.

Offshore is sitting ignorantly in a little bubble assuming that their employers will continue to pay them to sit watching their platforms produce oily seawater day in day out.

Join in with cost reductions lads or we won't have an industry left here in the UK.

[dingg]

jamieduff1981 said:

Norway is struggling financially at the moment. Statoil have been on a programme of reducing expense since before the oil price drop. It's a crap example to aspire to because economically it isn't working very well and wasn't before the downturn either.


(show us where you get this info.)

Those of us supporting and sustaining the industry onshore have had job losses and rate cuts because of this downturn.

(hardly surprising new projects get delayed is it? most offshore installations are running on the bare bones as it is , would you rather SCE and maintenance backlogs get longer and longer)

Offshore need to take their turn too.

( there's no 'meat' left on a lot of the bones - been through it before - remember CRINE)

2/3 is a logistical and resourcing PITA.
(oh dear lets make onshore logistics life easier by cutting peoples hard earned holiday entitlement)

Also most of the risk working offshore IS the flights there and back so less flying actually does expose workers to less risk overall.
(lets not forget Piper , Kielland , Deepwater horizon eh)

[jamieduff1981]

dingg said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Norway is struggling financially at the moment. Statoil have been on a programme of reducing expense since before the oil price drop. It's a crap example to aspire to because economically it isn't working very well and wasn't before the downturn either.


(show us where you get this info.)

Those of us supporting and sustaining the industry onshore have had job losses and rate cuts because of this downturn.

(hardly surprising new projects get delayed is it? most offshore installations are running on the bare bones as it is , would you rather SCE and maintenance backlogs get longer and longer)

Offshore need to take their turn too.

( there's no 'meat' left on a lot of the bones - been through it before - remember CRINE)

2/3 is a logistical and resourcing PITA.
(oh dear lets make onshore logistics life easier by cutting peoples hard earned holiday entitlement)

Also most of the risk working offshore IS the flights there and back so less flying actually does expose workers to less risk overall.
(lets not forget Piper , Kielland , Deepwater horizon eh)

I resent that. Don't presume for a moment that we don't all work hard to keep you in a job onshore too yet we all get slashed anyway whilst you think you're not part of the problem.

As for Norway - open your eyes. The Norwegian market died a death early last year. It doesn't take a private detective to see that Statoil really screwed the nut on capital investment decisions twice in the last 12 months and minor modification work has been severely cut back.

It's the projects that maintain or enhance production to keep your platforms remotely viable. The industry is not in the business of selling produced water and reservoirs decline year on year.

The drilling programmes in the UKCS have been chopped all over the place. Without drilling the existing wells die. Without drilling there are no new projects. Without projects or workovers of old wells your platforms produce nada.

Even when oil price recovers this dip has opened the UK divisions of multinational operators just how high their break-even prices are here.

Who in their right mind would sink money in to keeping your platforms producing seawater when there are far more rewarding opportunities all over the world?

[dingg]

jamieduff1981 said:

dingg said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Norway is struggling financially at the moment. Statoil have been on a programme of reducing expense since before the oil price drop. It's a crap example to aspire to because economically it isn't working very well and wasn't before the downturn either.


(show us where you get this info.)

Those of us supporting and sustaining the industry onshore have had job losses and rate cuts because of this downturn.

(hardly surprising new projects get delayed is it? most offshore installations are running on the bare bones as it is , would you rather SCE and maintenance backlogs get longer and longer)

Offshore need to take their turn too.

( there's no 'meat' left on a lot of the bones - been through it before - remember CRINE)

2/3 is a logistical and resourcing PITA.
(oh dear lets make onshore logistics life easier by cutting peoples hard earned holiday entitlement)

Also most of the risk working offshore IS the flights there and back so less flying actually does expose workers to less risk overall.
(lets not forget Piper , Kielland , Deepwater horizon eh)

I resent that. Don't presume for a moment that we don't all work hard to keep you in a job onshore too yet we all get slashed anyway whilst you think you're not part of the problem.

As for Norway - open your eyes. The Norwegian market died a death early last year. It doesn't take a private detective to see that Statoil really screwed the nut on capital investment decisions twice in the last 12 months and minor modification work has been severely cut back.

It's the projects that maintain or enhance production to keep your platforms remotely viable. The industry is not in the business of selling produced water and reservoirs decline year on year.

The drilling programmes in the UKCS have been chopped all over the place. Without drilling the existing wells die. Without drilling there are no new projects. Without projects or workovers of old wells your platforms produce nada.

Even when oil price recovers this dip has opened the UK divisions of multinational operators just how high their break-even prices are here.

Who in their right mind would sink money in to keeping your platforms producing seawater when there are far more rewarding opportunities all over the world?

you're working to keep me in a job? - LOL

Drilling is always the first to feel pain - why drill for oil when its unprofitable to get out of the ground?

NEW projects will be cut for the same reason - it still makes sense to get out as much as possible (cost dependent) on already producing installations.

Workovers haven't been done for 18 years on ANY of the producers on the field I'm working on - think again about existing wells NEEDING workover drilling work.


couldn't agree more if they aren't making money shut them down - then watch the price pick up (oops should have kept that platform going eh?) - IT WILL - Saudi A simply breaking the frac. industry ( Saudi NEEDS more than current POO simply to balance the books)

ps they aren't MY platforms - remember without them YOU are out of a job.

RESENT away