Forth Road Bridge after work each evening

Forth Road Bridge after work each evening

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GoneAnon

Original Poster:

1,703 posts

151 months

Saturday 7th November 2015
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This is really getting on my tits now to the extent that I'm using the Clackmannanshire bridge some evenings just so I can have some idea of when I'll actually get home.

I'm guessing that having two major dual-carriageways and a minor road all merging into two lanes within a few hundred yards, combined with the lower 40mph limit to cross the bridge and well into Fife restricts the flow, but surely if everyone would leave a gap and allow merging in turn we could ALL make progress of some sort?

Thank goodness (and the SNP!) that we don't have toll-booths to add to the problem, but why are they planning to restrict the current bridge to public transport when the new one opens?

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Saturday 7th November 2015
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People not allowing merging and driving right up the chuff of the car in front is hardly a new thing on the FRB. The brain-dead are slowing the traffic up just after the bridge into fife by trying to get into the right hand lane where the road splits in two even though both go the exact same way.

ianrb

1,529 posts

139 months

Sunday 8th November 2015
quotequote all
GoneAnon said:
This is really getting on my tits now to the extent that I'm using the Clackmannanshire bridge some evenings just so I can have some idea of when I'll actually get home.

I'm guessing that having two major dual-carriageways and a minor road all merging into two lanes within a few hundred yards, combined with the lower 40mph limit to cross the bridge and well into Fife restricts the flow, but surely if everyone would leave a gap and allow merging in turn we could ALL make progress of some sort?

Thank goodness (and the SNP!) that we don't have toll-booths to add to the problem, but why are they planning to restrict the current bridge to public transport when the new one opens?
I think it's caused by the right hand lane of the A90 disapearing at the A904 junction. This means everyone who joined from the M9, but stayed in the right hand lane to allow traffic from Edinbugh to merge more easily by staying out of the lane they are all trying to get into, has to move at least one lane to the left. And people in those lanes try to be arsy about it all, well some of them do, in particular that PoS Citroen people carrier last Friday.
Anyway if there were still tolls the prices could be varied to manage the volume of traffic going over the bridge.


salguod

60 posts

121 months

Sunday 8th November 2015
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Having recently started a job where the commute includes going over the bridge you have my complete agreement. The driving standards are atrocious. The amount of people who constantly swap lanes and don't know how to zip merge is frustrating. When I worked down in Yorkshire for a few years, for a time my commute included a bit on the M62 and it was a breeze and very polite (read with a slight pinch of salt) compared to crossing the bridge and driving in Edinburgh.

Luckily I live somewhere that getting to and from Kincardine is no problem at all. Last Monday morning I didn't even consider going over the Forth bridge since they were late in opening it and every Friday evening I don't even bother crossing it at all and go via the Clackmannanshire bridge. For me, if the traffic report on the radio says the queue northbound in the evening is anything more than 25 minutes, I'm quicker going up the M9 and round.

If I didn't work just off the Fairmilehead junction, I would strongly consider taking public transport.

ruggedscotty

5,606 posts

208 months

Sunday 8th November 2015
quotequote all
when the tolls were there it added a bit of a break to the traffic flow so traffic merged better after the tolls - jut now its terrible but they wan it to be like so - his means when the bridge opens and traffic flows smoother they can say it was all a big success....

If it was me simple way to improve flow is to make lane 1 leave at the roundabout junction keeping lanes 2 and 3 going - yes it will mean traffic has to move from lane 1 to lane 2 to head for the bridge.

Id also add in lights where the slip road comes down to final approach to the bridge - get traffic merging and keep it flowing....

Still the new bridge its only got two lanes so the capacity isnt being increased - Id have made it three lanes over the bridge.

GoneAnon

Original Poster:

1,703 posts

151 months

Sunday 8th November 2015
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They have put traffic lights at the top of sliproad, ideally positioned to choke off all traffic on the roundabout!

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Wednesday 11th November 2015
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I suppose it doesn't matter how many lanes the bridge has, as you're just going to end up in a stey bottleneck somewhere else in the most congested city in the UK (in terms of %age slower in rush hour IIRC)

Halmyre

11,147 posts

138 months

Friday 13th November 2015
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While we're on the subject, morning congestion southbound (from 0630 onwards) seems to have increased significantly in the past couple of weeks. Are there overnight repairs which are over-running, or something?

tvrolet

4,251 posts

281 months

Friday 13th November 2015
quotequote all
I take it folks are aware that this 2-lane bridge that acts as a total bottleneck is being replaced with.....



another 2 lane bridge.



The existing bridge will be closed to all but buses. So at rush hour when you're crawling along, just think how much different it would be if all the buses were removed from the queue. Oh wait, precisely sod-all difference. I get the feeling that there's an agenda here with the 40mph limit and intrusive roadworks that they're getting folks familiar with hold-ups, and so when the open the new 2-lane bridge they can go back to 50mph and announce how much better the traffic is flowing.

In fairness the new bridge is 2 lanes each way plus a hard shoulder. If I was taking bets I'd say within 12 months of opening they'll have to open the hard shoulder or re-open the existing bridge to cars. It would make more sense for the old bridge to handle Edinburgh traffic, and the new bridge to handle traffic to the M8/M9 (with a direct link to the M9, not that crazy detour round the existing loop road)...but that's much too smart for Edinburgh (and Fife) Planners.

It seems utter madness to build a 2-lane bridge to replace an already congested 2-lane bridge. Not as if you can easily widen it. In the grand scheme of things it would have cost peanuts to put in extra capacity on the crossing.

HoggyR32

341 posts

147 months

Sunday 15th November 2015
quotequote all
N
tvrolet said:
I take it folks are aware that this 2-lane bridge that acts as a total bottleneck is being replaced with.....



another 2 lane bridge.



The existing bridge will be closed to all but buses. So at rush hour when you're crawling along, just think how much different it would be if all the buses were removed from the queue. Oh wait, precisely sod-all difference. I get the feeling that there's an agenda here with the 40mph limit and intrusive roadworks that they're getting folks familiar with hold-ups, and so when the open the new 2-lane bridge they can go back to 50mph and announce how much better the traffic is flowing.

In fairness the new bridge is 2 lanes each way plus a hard shoulder. If I was taking bets I'd say within 12 months of opening they'll have to open the hard shoulder or re-open the existing bridge to cars. It would make more sense for the old bridge to handle Edinburgh traffic, and the new bridge to handle traffic to the M8/M9 (with a direct link to the M9, not that crazy detour round the existing loop road)...but that's much too smart for Edinburgh (and Fife) Planners.

It seems utter madness to build a 2-lane bridge to replace an already congested 2-lane bridge. Not as if you can easily widen it. In the grand scheme of things it would have cost peanuts to put in extra capacity on the crossing.
Pretty sure I heard they were planning on opening the hard shoulder during peak times.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Sunday 15th November 2015
quotequote all
HoggyR32 said:
Pretty sure I heard they were planning on opening the hard shoulder during peak times.
I really think we should be trying to get "managed motorways"(?) with the hard shoulder open when it's empty. The M8 could really benefit from Newbridge to Hermiston Gait I feel. When I've used it at about 8am Eastbound, it seems to be carnage as the 4 lanes merge to 2 coming from M9 Newbridge (sometimes even stopped for minutes on the slip road) then it's up to motorway speeds once the traffic opens out after a mile or so. I can't imagine how much time, money and emissions that's wasting.

caelite

4,273 posts

111 months

Sunday 15th November 2015
quotequote all
simoid said:
HoggyR32 said:
Pretty sure I heard they were planning on opening the hard shoulder during peak times.
I really think we should be trying to get "managed motorways"(?) with the hard shoulder open when it's empty. The M8 could really benefit from Newbridge to Hermiston Gait I feel. When I've used it at about 8am Eastbound, it seems to be carnage as the 4 lanes merge to 2 coming from M9 Newbridge (sometimes even stopped for minutes on the slip road) then it's up to motorway speeds once the traffic opens out after a mile or so. I can't imagine how much time, money and emissions that's wasting.
Oh please no. I semi frequently go from Glasgow to Edinburgh in the small hours and I like that there are no speed cameras every 200m lol.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Sunday 15th November 2015
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Does anyone think they'll eventually close the Forth Road Bridge? I recall reading a few years back that the bridge was only built to last 100 or so years and was struggling with the increased traffic flow on the bridge in recent years which has led to the weakening of certain parts of it.


Halmyre

11,147 posts

138 months

Sunday 15th November 2015
quotequote all
caelite said:
simoid said:
HoggyR32 said:
Pretty sure I heard they were planning on opening the hard shoulder during peak times.
I really think we should be trying to get "managed motorways"(?) with the hard shoulder open when it's empty. The M8 could really benefit from Newbridge to Hermiston Gait I feel. When I've used it at about 8am Eastbound, it seems to be carnage as the 4 lanes merge to 2 coming from M9 Newbridge (sometimes even stopped for minutes on the slip road) then it's up to motorway speeds once the traffic opens out after a mile or so. I can't imagine how much time, money and emissions that's wasting.
Oh please no. I semi frequently go from Glasgow to Edinburgh in the small hours and I like that there are no speed cameras every 200m lol.
I agree, the M90 approach to the FRB is 'managed' and it makes eff-all difference. Traffic finds its own natural rate of progress, and the speeds indicated on the VMS signs often bear no resemblance to the speed on the ground.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Monday 16th November 2015
quotequote all
HoggyR32 said:
N
tvrolet said:
I take it folks are aware that this 2-lane bridge that acts as a total bottleneck is being replaced with.....



another 2 lane bridge.



The existing bridge will be closed to all but buses. So at rush hour when you're crawling along, just think how much different it would be if all the buses were removed from the queue. Oh wait, precisely sod-all difference. I get the feeling that there's an agenda here with the 40mph limit and intrusive roadworks that they're getting folks familiar with hold-ups, and so when the open the new 2-lane bridge they can go back to 50mph and announce how much better the traffic is flowing.

In fairness the new bridge is 2 lanes each way plus a hard shoulder. If I was taking bets I'd say within 12 months of opening they'll have to open the hard shoulder or re-open the existing bridge to cars. It would make more sense for the old bridge to handle Edinburgh traffic, and the new bridge to handle traffic to the M8/M9 (with a direct link to the M9, not that crazy detour round the existing loop road)...but that's much too smart for Edinburgh (and Fife) Planners.

It seems utter madness to build a 2-lane bridge to replace an already congested 2-lane bridge. Not as if you can easily widen it. In the grand scheme of things it would have cost peanuts to put in extra capacity on the crossing.
Pretty sure I heard they were planning on opening the hard shoulder during peak times.
If you had asked me a few months ago I'd have said that I believe the hard shoulder will be open during peak times, and I also believe they will use the existing FRB for traffic during peak times too as that's part of the 'Intelligent Transport System' they've installed which will balance/manage traffic volumes. Apparently.

However, I then heard that they were considering keeping the FRB for public transport and the QC for cars only, and there's now talk of a Light Rapid Transit system using the FRB as well as busses.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/project/forth-...





ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Monday 16th November 2015
quotequote all
Light Rapid Transport? Is that minibuses using the hard shoulder?

I did read the PDF but I'm still none the wiser as to what would be materially different between a crossing with a LRT and one without.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Monday 16th November 2015
quotequote all
ModernAndy said:
Light Rapid Transport? Is that minibuses using the hard shoulder?

I did read the PDF but I'm still none the wiser as to what would be materially different between a crossing with a LRT and one without.
Could be wrong here, but I read that proposal as being as high speed light rail system like the DLR in London. Could be wrong though.

I'd have been happier if the 'Intelligent Transport System' was going to load balance and open the FRB to traffic during peak hours to load balance, which is what was originally proposed.

hidetheelephants

23,732 posts

192 months

Monday 16th November 2015
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How the fk do you put a light rail system over a road bridge with(by rail standards) large gradients? That makes entirely no sense, especially when the Forth Bridge is not exactly overloaded with traffic.

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Monday 16th November 2015
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
How the fk do you put a light rail system over a road bridge with(by rail standards) large gradients? That makes entirely no sense, especially when the Forth Bridge is not exactly overloaded with traffic.
I think the rail thing was an initial idea that has now been abandoned but a light railway like the DLR is mentioned in a PDF in the page linked. I'm not sure it was made clear whether they've made any provision to lay any more railway across the forth but it doesn't seem like it's being given serious consideration. Maybe they are thinking of extending the trams across the current FRB at some point?

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Monday 16th November 2015
quotequote all
ModernAndy said:
Maybe they are thinking of extending the trams across the current FRB at some point?
Probably some sort of sleeper service from Princes St to Dunfermline? biggrin