Forth Road Bridge after work each evening

[simoid]

If the government wants to make a private lane for PHers and call it lane 1 I’m all for it. I’m already spoilt with the empty bus lanes other than the 4 hours a day I’m not allowed to use them (although the ones through Corstorphine have been turned into cycle lanes/spaces for people and those were my favourite )

[irc]

5 In a Row said:

I can't speak for rush hour but whenever I've used the M74 its been very quiet and you regularly catch up with someone sitting in lane 2 at 65 with clear road for a mile ahead.

You are correct. The M74 is usually a joy to drive. The difference between the M74 completion and the Forth Crossing is that govt ministers overruled the green lobby and a public enquiry which ruled against it being built.

"The Scottish Green Party said it was in breach of European competition rules. "

"Glasgow Green MSP Patrick Harvie said the decision marked a "dark day" for the city. "

" Dr Dan Barlow, acting director of WWF Scotland, said: "At a time when we really need to see concerted and joined-up action by government to reduce our climate emissions, the last thing we need is yet another road building project."

The project had been backed by the Scottish Executive despite being rejected by a planning reporter after a public inquiry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_we...

The only question is that this was approved by an SNP minister. What happened to them for the Forth Crossing?

Edited by irc on Thursday 16th September 15:52

[5 In a Row]

irc said:

You are correct. The M74 is usually a joy to drive. The difference between the M74 completion and the Forth Crossing is that govt ministers overruled the green lobby and a public enquiry which ruled against it being built.

"The Scottish Green Party said it was in breach of European competition rules. "

"Glasgow Green MSP Patrick Harvie said the decision marked a "dark day" for the city. "

" Dr Dan Barlow, acting director of WWF Scotland, said: "At a time when we really need to see concerted and joined-up action by government to reduce our climate emissions, the last thing we need is yet another road building project."

The project had been backed by the Scottish Executive despite being rejected by a planning reporter after a public inquiry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_we...

The only question is that this was approved by an SNP minister. What happened to them for the Forth Crossing?

Edited by irc on Thursday 16th September 15:52

Madness!!
That's probably saved a shedload of pollution.


I had a bit of a rant on another forum about traffic calming in my local town.
You know, the kind of thing where you used to drive towards the edge of town at 30 but now you're faced with a traffic island and, in rush hour, the opportunity to park stationary for a few minutes (engine idling, of course as you have to move forward 1 cars length at a time) followed by some firm acceleration as you dive round the stupid island as a small gap in oncoming traffic presents itself.
Meanwhile traffic coming into town generally continues by at about 40, usually only slowing once they notice the sign lighting up to tell them they're speeding.
It's fking annoying

For anyone interested it's the A914 heading West out of Cupar.

[Leithen]

I'd like someone to sample/estimate emissions from the traffic/tailbacks in evening traffic on the M90 northbound approach and bridge sections and the A904 between the bridge and Newton.

I suggest that they then allow the northbound hard shoulder/third lane on the bridge to be used from 3-7pm for all traffic entering from the South Queensferry slip and sample emissions again on the same sections.

I might be wrong, but I suspect there might be a miraculous double success of less congestion and lower emissions. Of course I might be wrong and suddenly everyone and their aunt will decide to use the same roads at theses times and we'll be back to square one.... But something tells me we that wouldn't happen.

A scientific trial done by independent engineers - entirely reasonable no?

[irc]

Leithen said:

I'd like someone to sample/estimate emissions from the traffic/tailbacks in evening traffic on the M90 northbound approach and bridge sections and the A904 between the bridge and Newton.

I suggest that they then allow the northbound hard shoulder/third lane on the bridge to be used from 3-7pm for all traffic entering from the South Queensferry slip and sample emissions again on the same sections.

Makes sense to me. If we accept the argument that improving roads and increasing capacity just shifts jams elsewhere we wouldn't have built a single motorway in this country.





That road through Stepps was once the main road between Glasgow and Falkirk/Stirling before the M80 bypassed it. I once spoke to a woman who lived in the house on the right and worked in the pub on the left. Now a 1 minute walk. Before the M80 it was a 15 minute walk up to a pedestrian crossing and back. Not to mention the noise and pollution from thousands of cars and HGVs passing through 24/7.

New roads are a good thing despite what Patrick Harvie would tell you. It is unbelievable he is now in government.

[simoid]

New roads especially good if they’re taking folk away from the city.

[Davie]

5 In a Row said:

One of my most frustrating drives was coming straight off the Eurotunnel, heading north, having driven in Europe for a week and driving along the 4 lane bit of the M25 past Heathrow seeing lanes 1 and 2 practically empty and 3 and 4 full and driving at 45-65 depending on what numpty was at the head of the queue.
Utter madness.

I can't speak for rush hour but whenever I've used the M74 its been very quiet and you regularly catch up with someone sitting in lane 2 at 65 with clear road for a mile ahead.

Agreed on both counts.

I've driven in Europe a few times and coming back just reminds you how much better lane discipline is over there / how bad it is here. Experienced similar on the M25 and on one occasion, did Amsterdam > Frankfurt > Caen almost unimpeded then came off the ferry at 11pm at Portsmouth and ended up behind a guy doing 60 in the outside lane on an empty motorway.

The run back up the M5 / M6 the following day was soul destroying and even once you clear Preston, the traffic becomes lighter... there wil be countless cars sat in the middle lane for miles on end. In the UK we seem to have a big gap between the dawdle along / don't move left camp and the uber aggressive / won't move left camp whereas as over the water, the general standard seems better... the majority seems to be able to make progress with discipline. Here that's a minority.

[S2red]

Annoying thing is there is a offence in place to fine folk who lane hog but when do you ever see a police car on an Motorway these days?

I regularly go up and down to Devon from Glasgow and can count on fingers of one hand number of traffic cars "patrolling" the road Saw a few speeding to incidents on opposite C'way but none on raised side parking areas or just patrolling watching traffic.

Going of on a tangent I know but I generally set cruise control on M'way and am amazed at how many cars you pass who then speed up pass you then a few miles down road you pass them again and your speed has never changed, weird On journey north recently one car passed and was repassed about 6 or 7 times over an hour, should maybe start new thread drivers odd habits :-)

Edited by S2red on Friday 17th September 08:33

Edited by S2red on Friday 17th September 08:34

[5 In a Row]

S2red said:

Going of on a tangent I know but I generally set cruise control on M'way and am amazed at how many cars you pass who then speed up pass you then a few miles down road you pass them again and your speed has never changed, weird On journey north recently one car passed and was repassed about 6 or 7 times over an hour, should maybe start new thread drivers odd habits :-)

Edited by S2red on Friday 17th September 08:33

Edited by S2red on Friday 17th September 08:34

There are a lot who speed up as you catch them so you have to speed up to get past then as soon as you're ahead they slow down dramatically.
Irritating.

[Davie]

Having vowed I'd never consider any role that involves the misery of the bridge, I know find myself facing a commute over the bridge daily... so on that note, Dunfermline to Livingston (Deer Park) to be there for 0830 (ish) - what am I looking at time travel time wise?

I was thinking of jumping on at the slip at Inverkeithing Park & Ride then off and along through Newton, Threemiletown and through Uphall and into the top end of Houston but no idea if that's likely to be worse than just slogging it out on the motorway?

Any advice aside for consider a change of career?

[emicen]

Probably the best answer would be to plan the route on Google maps and see what it thinks of each option at the time you would be leaving.

I don’t think the M8 out to Livi would be too bad once you’re on it, but getting the M8 could be painful. Equally, Newton / Threemile / Uphall wouldn’t take much to turn in to a mission.

[Dinoboy]

Once your past Newbridge it'll be a doddle, all the traffic is going towards Edinburgh at that time in the morning.

[sherman]

Over the bathgate hills (linlithgow to livingston) is a nightmare in the morning. You will be as fast to just do m90, m9, m8 .

[Halmyre]

Davie said:

Having vowed I'd never consider any role that involves the misery of the bridge, I know find myself facing a commute over the bridge daily... so on that note, Dunfermline to Livingston (Deer Park) to be there for 0830 (ish) - what am I looking at time travel time wise?

I was thinking of jumping on at the slip at Inverkeithing Park & Ride then off and along through Newton, Threemiletown and through Uphall and into the top end of Houston but no idea if that's likely to be worse than just slogging it out on the motorway?

Any advice aside for consider a change of career?

I feel your pain. I used to commute Dunfermline to Livingston but some years ago so my info is probably out of date (this was in the days of the late and unlamented A8000).

The slip at Inverkeithing is traffic light controlled at that time of morning IIRC so you might not get any benefit over joining at Admiralty/Pitreavie.

The merge from the M90 to the M9 at Newbridge is likely to be backed up and the M8 to Livingston is ste at any time of day so Newton etc. would be my choice but you are probably going to get held up by dawdlers at some point so it's swings and roundabouts. Coming home, traffic can be backed up as far as Newton from the M90 junction.

[Edinburger]

s2kjock said:

Davie said:

The bypass has gotten much worse too, perhaps as the Edinburgh clean air zone and spaces for people has done little aside for force more drivers to take evasive action and thus use the bypass. And on that note, some character was on the radio last week proclaiming a flyover / redesign of Sheriffhall was ludicrous and would increase pollution... obviously several miles of cars, buses and wagons sat idling on a bad day is fine though. My only reservation with the flyover plans is that yes, it'll clear Sheriffhall faster (?) but will it not then just move the issue to Musselburgh as the lights there can be a ballache too... see also the junction at Hermiston Gait. To my untrained eye, there needs to be continuously flow at these pinch points by way of slip roads that bypass the light controlled junctions for through traffic.

The Sherriffhall flyover (if it ever gets built - see A96 dualling programme for guidance) is bound to increase pollution over time as more will use the A720 who might have avoided it due to that stshow of a roundabout, and as you say the pinch points will just move elsewhere. Even without these, the numbers exiting and joining from all the junctions on the bypass will just keep growing and the "south Edinburgh car park" just gets more rammed.

I used to think little about heading from the North and West of Edinburgh to Seafield/Newcraighall for shopping or out to East Lothian for a trip, I'd need a really good reason to do it nowadays regardless of the time of day or day of the week.

Ultimately it was really bad planning to build a capital city district half bounded by a large body of water.

Sherrifhall Roundabout isn't that bad, outwith rush hour. It's easy to bypass it via Gilmerton / Eskbank. Even if you don't it's normally a ten min delay or so. The flyover will make a huge difference - look at the roads roud Kincardine and Bowtrees 9the roudabout beside the petrol station).

[Edinburger]

Halmyre said:

Davie said:

Having vowed I'd never consider any role that involves the misery of the bridge, I know find myself facing a commute over the bridge daily... so on that note, Dunfermline to Livingston (Deer Park) to be there for 0830 (ish) - what am I looking at time travel time wise?

I was thinking of jumping on at the slip at Inverkeithing Park & Ride then off and along through Newton, Threemiletown and through Uphall and into the top end of Houston but no idea if that's likely to be worse than just slogging it out on the motorway?

Any advice aside for consider a change of career?

I feel your pain. I used to commute Dunfermline to Livingston but some years ago so my info is probably out of date (this was in the days of the late and unlamented A8000).

The slip at Inverkeithing is traffic light controlled at that time of morning IIRC so you might not get any benefit over joining at Admiralty/Pitreavie.

The merge from the M90 to the M9 at Newbridge is likely to be backed up and the M8 to Livingston is ste at any time of day so Newton etc. would be my choice but you are probably going to get held up by dawdlers at some point so it's swings and roundabouts. Coming home, traffic can be backed up as far as Newton from the M90 junction.

I know lots of people leave at Inverkeithing and try to sneak past the roundabout under the motorway, but I'm not convinced that's any quicker. Plus, Fife Council are implementing measures to stop this.

Biggest problem on QC is slow drivers.

[Davie]

Thanks chaps.

I'm just over the bridge Fife side so either joining at Rosyth or Inverkeithing are my options... and the other side, think I'll just have to resign myself to the fact it's going to be grim regardless of which route I take. Have found myself sat looking at the unclassified roads out the back of Winchburgh and the like. Thankfully said commute is only short term but will need to suss out my timings as strolling about 2hrs late won't be an impressive start... nor will strolling in 2hrs late to dinner on the way home either!

[Leithen]

Davie said:

Thanks chaps.

I'm just over the bridge Fife side so either joining at Rosyth or Inverkeithing are my options... and the other side, think I'll just have to resign myself to the fact it's going to be grim regardless of which route I take. Have found myself sat looking at the unclassified roads out the back of Winchburgh and the like. Thankfully said commute is only short term but will need to suss out my timings as strolling about 2hrs late won't be an impressive start... nor will strolling in 2hrs late to dinner on the way home either!

If you could start and end work slightly earlier, it would probably make life much easier.

[irc]

The SNP want the public to use public transport which is wht the new crossing did not increase the capacity of the 1960s bridge despite 50 year of trafic growth. To nudge the public on to buses and trains. But as around half the population voted for them they are presumably happy with the traffic jams.

"Transport Scotland's business case for the project [Transport Scotland] stated that the project was not intended to increase the capacity of the route for traffic and that increased demand for travel across the Forth will need to be met by public transport''


https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16686212.qu...

[Edinburger]

irc said:

The SNP want the public to use public transport which is wht the new crossing did not increase the capacity of the 1960s bridge despite 50 year of trafic growth. To nudge the public on to buses and trains. But as around half the population voted for them they are presumably happy with the traffic jams.

"Transport Scotland's business case for the project [Transport Scotland] stated that the project was not intended to increase the capacity of the route for traffic and that increased demand for travel across the Forth will need to be met by public transport''


https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16686212.qu...

Are you sure? As I recall, the SNP needed support from the Greens to build a new crossing over the Forth and they'd only support a bridge with no additional capacity / lanes. If it weren't for that SNP / Green collaboration it's possible we'd all still be using the Forth Road Bridge!