Forth Road Bridge after work each evening
Discussion
Edinburger said:
irc said:
The SNP want the public to use public transport which is wht the new crossing did not increase the capacity of the 1960s bridge despite 50 year of trafic growth. To nudge the public on to buses and trains. But as around half the population voted for them they are presumably happy with the traffic jams.
"Transport Scotland's business case for the project [Transport Scotland] stated that the project was not intended to increase the capacity of the route for traffic and that increased demand for travel across the Forth will need to be met by public transport''
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16686212.qu...
Are you sure? As I recall, the SNP needed support from the Greens to build a new crossing over the Forth and they'd only support a bridge with no additional capacity / lanes. If it weren't for that SNP / Green collaboration it's possible we'd all still be using the Forth Road Bridge! "Transport Scotland's business case for the project [Transport Scotland] stated that the project was not intended to increase the capacity of the route for traffic and that increased demand for travel across the Forth will need to be met by public transport''
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16686212.qu...
https://archive2021.parliament.scot/parliamentaryb...
By the time of the vote the other parties had the Hobsons choice of supporting the 4 lane bridge or voting for no new crossing. The SNP, as the govt from 2007 onwards, need to take the flak for the strategic choices made by transport Scotland in going for a 4 lane bridge to restrict growth in private car use.
Speaking of which, did the crack(s) on the old road bridge ever get fixed? I don't recall ever hearing anything about that...
And, someone told me the old day, the Leith Walk Trams Extension is apparently on NEC4 ECC main Option E - in other words, cost reimbursable!!!! Every pound spent by the contractor will be paid by the client unless the project manager disallows it. No wonder there's so many people standing around doing nothing!!! T&T are the PM and they don't seem to be doing much.
And, someone told me the old day, the Leith Walk Trams Extension is apparently on NEC4 ECC main Option E - in other words, cost reimbursable!!!! Every pound spent by the contractor will be paid by the client unless the project manager disallows it. No wonder there's so many people standing around doing nothing!!! T&T are the PM and they don't seem to be doing much.
dxg said:
Speaking of which, did the crack(s) on the old road bridge ever get fixed? I don't recall ever hearing anything about that...
And, someone told me the old day, the Leith Walk Trams Extension is apparently on NEC4 ECC main Option E - in other words, cost reimbursable!!!! Every pound spent by the contractor will be paid by the client unless the project manager disallows it. No wonder there's so many people standing around doing nothing!!! T&T are the PM and they don't seem to be doing much.
FRB good as new in 2019. We basically needed the new bridge as a bypass to take the traffic and load offf the bridge whilst they fixed it. And, someone told me the old day, the Leith Walk Trams Extension is apparently on NEC4 ECC main Option E - in other words, cost reimbursable!!!! Every pound spent by the contractor will be paid by the client unless the project manager disallows it. No wonder there's so many people standing around doing nothing!!! T&T are the PM and they don't seem to be doing much.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...
Davie said:
Having vowed I'd never consider any role that involves the misery of the bridge, I know find myself facing a commute over the bridge daily... so on that note, Dunfermline to Livingston (Deer Park) to be there for 0830 (ish) - what am I looking at time travel time wise?
I was thinking of jumping on at the slip at Inverkeithing Park & Ride then off and along through Newton, Threemiletown and through Uphall and into the top end of Houston but no idea if that's likely to be worse than just slogging it out on the motorway?
Any advice aside for consider a change of career?
Welcome to my world I was thinking of jumping on at the slip at Inverkeithing Park & Ride then off and along through Newton, Threemiletown and through Uphall and into the top end of Houston but no idea if that's likely to be worse than just slogging it out on the motorway?
Any advice aside for consider a change of career?
.In fairness it's only 35 mins for me to get from mine in to the Houston Ind Est but I do start at 7am so miss the traffic going in. Finishing time is 6pm so miss traffic too.
But... Going in to Livi, don't bother going the back roads (*unless it's very heavy snow), once you're passed the bridge it's a clear run on the motorway. Heading home, check Waze or Google and Twitter, if it's looking s
te, either Uphall over to the Newton road (there's tons of different roads to choose) or Kincardine if it's really bad. I'm headed for Houston Ind Est too... though its been pushed back by a week so have dodged the bullet a bit longer. I'll probably opt to head in sharper, get breakfast over there to try and beat the worst of it and then on the way home... I'll be en route by 1615 so guess it'll be wing it and assess then tweak the route home to suit. I'd rather go via Kincardine than sir in traffic from Newbridge or Newton!
Davie said:
I'm headed for Houston Ind Est too... though its been pushed back by a week so have dodged the bullet a bit longer. I'll probably opt to head in sharper, get breakfast over there to try and beat the worst of it and then on the way home... I'll be en route by 1615 so guess it'll be wing it and assess then tweak the route home to suit. I'd rather go via Kincardine than sir in traffic from Newbridge or Newton!
I don't know, you're doubling your journey time going via Kincardine, and the traffic has to be really bad over the QC to slow your journey by that much. Plus the added joy of the A985.Halmyre said:
I don't know, you're doubling your journey time going via Kincardine, and the traffic has to be really bad over the QC to slow your journey by that much. Plus the added joy of the A985.
Agreed. I always think Livingston is about mid way as far as the Forth and Kincardine bridges go, but it's far from it. I'm out west of Dunfermline but not enough to justify the detour via Kincardine. Upside is, just been advised I'll be on my way home at 1530 so hoping that'll be enough to beat the traffic build up on approach to the bridge. I know this is a very un-PH answer, but have you thought about leaving the car at Ferrytoll & getting the bus? Depends where you're going in Livingston I guess - https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com... - 33-35 mins from Ferrytoll to Livvy centre via the old FRB, and gets to run down the bus lanes on the motorways.
alangla said:
I know this is a very un-PH answer, but have you thought about leaving the car at Ferrytoll & getting the bus? Depends where you're going in Livingston I guess - https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com... - 33-35 mins from Ferrytoll to Livvy centre via the old FRB, and gets to run down the bus lanes on the motorways.
Not an option unfortunately as I need the van and its contents with me. However, it's been fine (touch wood) thus far. Leaving the house at 0730 and I'm usually there for 8am and then on the return, leaving between 1500 and 1600 and worst so far has been 45 minutes. I've just opted for Bridge > M9 > M8 direct route. No queues or issues as yet, just a couple of sporadic slow traffic moments mostly feeding in to Houston and then on approach to the bridge northbound in the evening. Not a bad run to be fair, I was expecting much worse.
Davie said:
alangla said:
I know this is a very un-PH answer, but have you thought about leaving the car at Ferrytoll & getting the bus? Depends where you're going in Livingston I guess - https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com... - 33-35 mins from Ferrytoll to Livvy centre via the old FRB, and gets to run down the bus lanes on the motorways.
Not an option unfortunately as I need the van and its contents with me. However, it's been fine (touch wood) thus far. Leaving the house at 0730 and I'm usually there for 8am and then on the return, leaving between 1500 and 1600 and worst so far has been 45 minutes. I've just opted for Bridge > M9 > M8 direct route. No queues or issues as yet, just a couple of sporadic slow traffic moments mostly feeding in to Houston and then on approach to the bridge northbound in the evening. Not a bad run to be fair, I was expecting much worse.
Davie said:
alangla said:
I know this is a very un-PH answer, but have you thought about leaving the car at Ferrytoll & getting the bus? Depends where you're going in Livingston I guess - https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com... - 33-35 mins from Ferrytoll to Livvy centre via the old FRB, and gets to run down the bus lanes on the motorways.
Not an option unfortunately as I need the van and its contents with me. However, it's been fine (touch wood) thus far. Leaving the house at 0730 and I'm usually there for 8am and then on the return, leaving between 1500 and 1600 and worst so far has been 45 minutes. I've just opted for Bridge > M9 > M8 direct route. No queues or issues as yet, just a couple of sporadic slow traffic moments mostly feeding in to Houston and then on approach to the bridge northbound in the evening. Not a bad run to be fair, I was expecting much worse.
Edinburger said:
That's good and as I'd expect. A lot of people forget that the Queensferry Crossing is a lot better than the Forth Road Bridge was.
You keep trotting this 'better' mantra out. How so? OK, it's lost the thump thump thump going across of the old bridge but other than that it's still a 2-lane bridge (with a hard shoulder that I never see being used - I've sat on it closed with a car stuck on the outside lane); the slip roads on the south side make for a slightly longer journey (so when you're stuck in traffic at the same spot on the M90 you actually got more than a mile more of queuing traffic to go), and the congestion is worse than ever. Even at weekends now there's a queue to cross.
Yes, there are some [very rare] days when the old bridge would have been closed where they keep the new one open, but then again closing the bridge to all traffic was a relatively recent move; and the old bridge was never closed with ice falling off the cables. With the old bridge in a decent state of repair (which I gather it now is) I fail to see how the new bridge offers any improvement in journey times or congestion. It isn't even lit the whole way across, just epilepsy inspiring lights at eye-level at either end. I won't go as far as saying it's worse than the old bridge, but it sure as hell isn't any better...unless it's just new shiny things that you find attractive?
tvrolet said:
Edinburger said:
That's good and as I'd expect. A lot of people forget that the Queensferry Crossing is a lot better than the Forth Road Bridge was.
You keep trotting this 'better' mantra out. How so? OK, it's lost the thump thump thump going across of the old bridge but other than that it's still a 2-lane bridge (with a hard shoulder that I never see being used - I've sat on it closed with a car stuck on the outside lane); the slip roads on the south side make for a slightly longer journey (so when you're stuck in traffic at the same spot on the M90 you actually got more than a mile more of queuing traffic to go), and the congestion is worse than ever. Even at weekends now there's a queue to cross.
Yes, there are some [very rare] days when the old bridge would have been closed where they keep the new one open, but then again closing the bridge to all traffic was a relatively recent move; and the old bridge was never closed with ice falling off the cables. With the old bridge in a decent state of repair (which I gather it now is) I fail to see how the new bridge offers any improvement in journey times or congestion. It isn't even lit the whole way across, just epilepsy inspiring lights at eye-level at either end. I won't go as far as saying it's worse than the old bridge, but it sure as hell isn't any better...unless it's just new shiny things that you find attractive?
You're always going to have problems when there's so many lanes merging into two.
By and large, it's an improvement on what we had. It's just a bridge.
Edinburger said:
tvrolet said:
Edinburger said:
That's good and as I'd expect. A lot of people forget that the Queensferry Crossing is a lot better than the Forth Road Bridge was.
You keep trotting this 'better' mantra out. How so? OK, it's lost the thump thump thump going across of the old bridge but other than that it's still a 2-lane bridge (with a hard shoulder that I never see being used - I've sat on it closed with a car stuck on the outside lane); the slip roads on the south side make for a slightly longer journey (so when you're stuck in traffic at the same spot on the M90 you actually got more than a mile more of queuing traffic to go), and the congestion is worse than ever. Even at weekends now there's a queue to cross.
Yes, there are some [very rare] days when the old bridge would have been closed where they keep the new one open, but then again closing the bridge to all traffic was a relatively recent move; and the old bridge was never closed with ice falling off the cables. With the old bridge in a decent state of repair (which I gather it now is) I fail to see how the new bridge offers any improvement in journey times or congestion. It isn't even lit the whole way across, just epilepsy inspiring lights at eye-level at either end. I won't go as far as saying it's worse than the old bridge, but it sure as hell isn't any better...unless it's just new shiny things that you find attractive?
You're always going to have problems when there's so many lanes merging into two.
By and large, it's an improvement on what we had. It's just a bridge.
Perhaps, they might have seen sense and allowed the third lane to be used at rush hours, but with the Greens in Holyrood that seems vanishingly unlikely.
Not sure what it is about the design, perhaps the bigger crest/curve, but you hardly ever get to the speed limit on it.
Leithen said:
Edinburger said:
tvrolet said:
Edinburger said:
That's good and as I'd expect. A lot of people forget that the Queensferry Crossing is a lot better than the Forth Road Bridge was.
You keep trotting this 'better' mantra out. How so? OK, it's lost the thump thump thump going across of the old bridge but other than that it's still a 2-lane bridge (with a hard shoulder that I never see being used - I've sat on it closed with a car stuck on the outside lane); the slip roads on the south side make for a slightly longer journey (so when you're stuck in traffic at the same spot on the M90 you actually got more than a mile more of queuing traffic to go), and the congestion is worse than ever. Even at weekends now there's a queue to cross.
Yes, there are some [very rare] days when the old bridge would have been closed where they keep the new one open, but then again closing the bridge to all traffic was a relatively recent move; and the old bridge was never closed with ice falling off the cables. With the old bridge in a decent state of repair (which I gather it now is) I fail to see how the new bridge offers any improvement in journey times or congestion. It isn't even lit the whole way across, just epilepsy inspiring lights at eye-level at either end. I won't go as far as saying it's worse than the old bridge, but it sure as hell isn't any better...unless it's just new shiny things that you find attractive?
You're always going to have problems when there's so many lanes merging into two.
By and large, it's an improvement on what we had. It's just a bridge.
Perhaps, they might have seen sense and allowed the third lane to be used at rush hours, but with the Greens in Holyrood that seems vanishingly unlikely.
Not sure what it is about the design, perhaps the bigger crest/curve, but you hardly ever get to the speed limit on it.
I'd bet travel moves quicker and average queue times are less than when the FRB was in use.
It's a horrendous missed opportunity. A 21st century ridge built for 1960s traffic volumes. If planners in the 1960s though 4 lanes was appropriate only an idiot would think any less than 6 was enough after 50 years of traffic growth.
But as we know the traffic jams were a design feature not a bug. They were part of the planning. They want to force people onto public transport.
"Michael Matheson Scottish National Party
The member has fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of the Queensferry crossing. It was not designed to increase capacity; "
Scottish Parliament. Jan 2020.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2020-01-30.2...
The obvious question being why not?
No matter how much the SNP wish us to use buses and trains more many of the journeys using the bridge are unsuitable for public transport.
"“Since the initial study in 2007 the objective of this project has been to provide a replacement for the Forth Road Bridge. As such the Queensferry Crossing does not increase capacity over the Forth and we still expect congestion at peak times."
Humza Yousaf 2017
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/70-mph-for-que...
So the SNP spent £1.3Bn on a crossing they knew could not cope with existing levels of traffic.Why do people vote for these clowns?
But as we know the traffic jams were a design feature not a bug. They were part of the planning. They want to force people onto public transport.
"Michael Matheson Scottish National Party
The member has fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of the Queensferry crossing. It was not designed to increase capacity; "
Scottish Parliament. Jan 2020.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2020-01-30.2...
The obvious question being why not?
No matter how much the SNP wish us to use buses and trains more many of the journeys using the bridge are unsuitable for public transport.
"“Since the initial study in 2007 the objective of this project has been to provide a replacement for the Forth Road Bridge. As such the Queensferry Crossing does not increase capacity over the Forth and we still expect congestion at peak times."
Humza Yousaf 2017
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/70-mph-for-que...
So the SNP spent £1.3Bn on a crossing they knew could not cope with existing levels of traffic.Why do people vote for these clowns?
Edited by irc on Monday 13th December 16:47
Edinburger said:
The Greens have blocked use of a third land I agree that would improve things, as would fining people who travel over the bridge at 45mpg when it's a motorway.
Fining people for their fuel economy now? 
, sounds like something the SNP would come up with right enough. Have to agree a bit though, the new bridge has some benefits over the old one, the problems stem almost solely from the amount of people using it. When you consider the numbers are only going one way, and if the SNP get their way and bring in a mass influx of migrants, which will ultimately lead to even more congestion, then the current situation is going to look rosy in comparison with the traffic chaos to come.
Thank feck we are moving to Wester Ross.
Edinburger said:
I'd bet travel moves quicker and average queue times are less than when the FRB was in use.
I bet they're not - and that's with Covid and loads of folks working from home. There are delays most weekends now that there never were before, and the queue times I see are as long if not longer. Remember there's at least another mile of road heading north before you get to the bridge so being held up at the same point on the M90 spur is actually a mile further back. And when I do head north more times than not I'm faced with a view of queuing traffic trying to head south on the hill up to jct 1c at Rosyth; that was never seen with the old bridge unless there has been a crash.As far as I can see everyone I know who uses it (and since I live in Fife that's quite a few folks) thinks it's waste of money as nothing has been improved by any significant amount. But against that you seem to be a lone voice proclaiming it's an improvement when it's plainly not. What's your agenda? Were you involved on the design, or building of it? It's blindingly obvious is has not helped one bit in journey times - and even if you could get across travelling faster than the old bridge any time saving would be negated as you have at least another mile to travel.
the bridge is hindered by the approach from the north - as folks head into the city in the morning.
but as soon as your across the bridge if your heading for Deerpark you have two choices, head up to the roundabout and either go left and through kirkliston and round down to the A89 and then right and along there to the A899 for Deerpark. or go right and then back roads back to Broxburn and then over to Deerpark.
the issue is the newbridge roundabout and the traffic backs up - still the M90 M9 M8 can be relatively free flowing.
Going back Id probably look to do the rat runs as that M90 can be stickey indeed. but it leaves you with trying to get onto the M90 at the roundabout which can be backed uup
but as soon as your across the bridge if your heading for Deerpark you have two choices, head up to the roundabout and either go left and through kirkliston and round down to the A89 and then right and along there to the A899 for Deerpark. or go right and then back roads back to Broxburn and then over to Deerpark.
the issue is the newbridge roundabout and the traffic backs up - still the M90 M9 M8 can be relatively free flowing.
Going back Id probably look to do the rat runs as that M90 can be stickey indeed. but it leaves you with trying to get onto the M90 at the roundabout which can be backed uup
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