Forth Road Bridge after work each evening

[hidetheelephants]

ModernAndy said:

Leithen said:

For that you can thank the infinite wisdom of our political masters.

Idiots.

To be honest, the interchange at Gogar sounds like a much more beneficial way of joining the trains to the airport via the tram network. Cost and time being no object, it's an okay idea to have a railway line running under the airport but when you do bring cost and disruption into it the appeal is quickly lost (unless you're one of the few that takes the train in specifically for the airport). I think it was more sensible to prioritise electrification of the main rail line over creating an interchange directly under the airport.

Much like GARL then; a nice-to-have but there are so many other things that offer better return on the money and improve things for more people, like crossrail, electrification between Queen St and Waverley, etc. TBH the bus between the city centre and GLA isn't that bad, nor the bus from Gilmour St; at most the traffic might justify a cheapo cable car or very light overhead rail thing linking to Gilmour St like at Birmingham
International. The £100m+ vanity tram/train/pod schemes Glasgow City Council are on about are impressing no-one except whoever prepared the doubtless lucrative reports and studies.

[A.J.M]

Why are they replacing a worn out 2 lane bridge that suffers serious traffic flow issues, with another 2 lane bridge?

Surely a 3 or 4 lane would be better suited to cope with the traffic flows?

[AndrewEH1]

A.J.M said:

Why are they replacing a worn out 2 lane bridge that suffers serious traffic flow issues, with another 2 lane bridge?

Surely a 3 or 4 lane would be better suited to cope with the traffic flows?

The road on either side is only two lanes...but I agree there should be three lanes so if the roads on either side are ever made into three lanes the bridge wouldn't be a choke point.

[Leithen]

A.J.M said:

Why are they replacing a worn out 2 lane bridge that suffers serious traffic flow issues, with another 2 lane bridge?

Surely a 3 or 4 lane would be better suited to cope with the traffic flows?

It worked for the bypass didn't it...????

[A.J.M]

No idea on Bypass. I don't venture that far East.

Is the Scot Gov that incompetent that they can't plan ahead and widen roads or upgrade them to cope, that areas been a bottle neck for years.

Although, the M8/A8 upgrade is only getting done now so kinda answers my own question.

[ModernAndy]

I would imagine the issue is cost. With both bridges in use, 2 lanes for each carriageway should be enough but nevertheless 3 lanes might cost a hell of a lot more than 2 and give little advantage given the road will contract into 2 lanes anyway. I don't know where you'd begin finding figures to work out the difference though. Maybe there are some costings given in the initial proposals that contrast 2 lanes against 3?

[hidetheelephants]

ModernAndy said:

I would imagine the issue is cost. With both bridges in use, 2 lanes for each carriageway should be enough but nevertheless 3 lanes might cost a hell of a lot more than 2 and give little advantage given the road will contract into 2 lanes anyway. I don't know where you'd begin finding figures to work out the difference though. Maybe there are some costings given in the initial proposals that contrast 2 lanes against 3?

You'd think that, but having looked at other cost studies for road developments that Transport Scotland have had done the methodology used has been shonky, undergraduate D- see me after class awful.

[tvrolet]

ModernAndy said:

I would imagine the issue is cost. With both bridges in use, 2 lanes for each carriageway should be enough but nevertheless 3 lanes might cost a hell of a lot more than 2 and give little advantage given the road will contract into 2 lanes anyway. I don't know where you'd begin finding figures to work out the difference though. Maybe there are some costings given in the initial proposals that contrast 2 lanes against 3?

But there won't be 2 bridges in use. The current bridge will be limited to buses, bicycles and pedestrians only. No cars or HGVs. Yup, they've kind of played that one down, but it is indeed a 2 lane bridge that causes significant congestion by being just 2 lanes, being replaced by 2 lanes; admittedly with hard shoulders. Taking bets on how long before they either have to open the hard shoulders or allow cars on the old bridge once people work out they've been duped over this bridge being a remedy to the congestion. I believe it was actually to be 3 lanes but the greens griped. Wider bridge, more traffic etc. So when we're stuck in tailbacks and crawling across the new bridge at least we can be content we''re saving the planet.

[ModernAndy]

tvrolet said:

ModernAndy said:

I would imagine the issue is cost. With both bridges in use, 2 lanes for each carriageway should be enough but nevertheless 3 lanes might cost a hell of a lot more than 2 and give little advantage given the road will contract into 2 lanes anyway. I don't know where you'd begin finding figures to work out the difference though. Maybe there are some costings given in the initial proposals that contrast 2 lanes against 3?

But there won't be 2 bridges in use. The current bridge will be limited to buses, bicycles and pedestrians only. No cars or HGVs. Yup, they've kind of played that one down, but it is indeed a 2 lane bridge that causes significant congestion by being just 2 lanes, being replaced by 2 lanes; admittedly with hard shoulders. Taking bets on how long before they either have to open the hard shoulders or allow cars on the old bridge once people work out they've been duped over this bridge being a remedy to the congestion. I believe it was actually to be 3 lanes but the greens griped. Wider bridge, more traffic etc. So when we're stuck in tailbacks and crawling across the new bridge at least we can be content we''re saving the planet.

I'd have to say that the traffic wasn't bad after the tolls were removed and before the works started on the new bridge. Like any place which forms a natural bottleneck, you do have some congestion issues but overall they've not been too bad and will be improved by putting slower moving vehicles onto the old bridge I'm sure (although maybe there will be issues putting the new bridge traffic back onto the motorway).

A lot of the issues with the FRB are caused when wide loads need to go over them and when vehicles break down. These 2 things should be fairly well addressed by lorries using the old bridge while cars are uninterrupted on the new bridge and by the hard shoulder giving break downs somewhere to stop safely and out of the way. Studies in the past have shown that reducing traffic by 20% or so can completely eradicate congestion on certain roads so I think the 2 lanes should at least be sufficient given a decent percentage of the traffic (representing probably 95% of the slowest moving vehicles) will be directed over the old bridge.

ETA- oh wait, are HGV's definitely going to be prevented from using the new bridge too? For some reason which I can't quite remember I thought they were going to use the current FRB.

[Klippie]

Up until two months ago I did the Fife to Edinburgh (Straiton) commute for seven years which was really getting me down, over an hour each way for a thirty mile trip was soul destroying, I managed to find a new job in Fife and the relief is amazing.

I really feel sorry for all the poor buggers having to go through that ordeal and now with the troubles on the bridge its going to be horrendous getting over to the Edinburgh side and back again in the evening.

[emicen]

A985 now closed to private cars, only busses and trucks to be allowed along it.

So everyone else will have to try and filter along rabbit runs through Oakley / Saline etc. That should be great.

[dxg]

emicen said:

A985 now closed to private cars, only busses and trucks to be allowed along it.

So everyone else will have to try and filter along rabbit runs through Oakley / Saline etc. That should be great.

Have you got a source?

Is this what you mean: https://trafficscotland.org/news/story.aspx?id=132...

So "prioritisation" means banning all non-local cars???

If it is true, then the only sensible way of getting to Fife will be to go via Stirling and the A91. I'm not looking forward to next week and the Christmas period when I'm up there. Still, at least I'm not having to commute...

[dxg]

Map of the route:

https://cms.traffic-scotland.co.uk/UploadedFiles/S...

Edited by dxg on Sunday 6th December 15:21

[Halmyre]

dxg said:

Map of the route:

https://cms.traffic-scotland.co.uk/UploadedFiles/S...

Edited by dxg on Sunday 6th December 15:21

I can spot a few choke points there. The single-carriageway section on the A907 in Carnock. The A977/B913 junction at Blairingone. The Higgins' Neuk roundabout at the south end of the Kincardine bridge - although I guess they'll split the lanes on the roundabout to give HGVs and buses a fighting chance.

[emicen]

Traffic Scotland link won't open on my phone but sounds like it. Saw it via a Fifer friend sharing a councillor's status on Facebook. Their Twitter feed advises the restriction starts tomorrow morning at 4am.

Lucky the RTC that closed the 985 in both directions happened today rather than tomorrow.

[simoid]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/forth-bridg...

Interesting reading from August this year.

[ModernAndy]

simoid said:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/forth-bridg...

Interesting reading from August this year.

Indeed, although it seems rather incongruous that this Colford chap should leave the FRB team due to a transition to private management to then go and work for a private company. What is outlined in the final paragraph seems more believable given the circumstances although perhaps he did have good reason to doubt Amey's abilities. Apart from that, I don't see any reason to doubt that Amey have neglected their duties to inspect the bridge properly.

[Davie]

I did Dunfermline > Dunbar and back yesterday and it was uncannily quiet... no hold ups at all, even at Kincardine and Hermiston. The biggest balls up is the roundabout south of the Kincardine - Kincardine bridge traffic has a 'filter' round the outside of the roundabout on to the M876 so no stopping at the give way as Clacks bridge trafiic is filtered in to the inside lane and thus the fast lane of the M876... however, Clacks bridge traffic southbound has to stop to yeild to traffic headed north off the M876 and cutting over their path on to the Kincardine bridge.

The closue of the A985 is frankly ludicrous... granted Friday was a disaster but you'd think most people will have no planned other routes, ie A9 from the north past Stirling and then Kinross > Kincardine thus taking some of the strain off the A985. Granted, yes... still a huge amount of traffic but with extra trains and buses, the 11 mile tailbacks should be a one off. Closing the road to private traffic is going to be fun... detour down the Bogside road or over Knockhill, awesome!

My sister is now debating leaving her car in Dalmeny and getting the train over the bridge and then pick it up from there... when public transport allows but being on shifts, at 3am that's not an option and I gather the A985 is closed regardless of time, so looking like a fairly significant detour via Bogside and the Kincardine Bridge. That'll be fun if we get snow or ice.

Hopefully the planners / trains / buses will kick into some sort of action plan this week and the dust will settle slightly. I feel for those who have no choice but to travel and those whose businesses will be hit hard by this. The ripples will travel far and wide I suspect!

[dxg]

And hopefully there will be some political fallout.

No, wait, this is Scotland we're talking about...

I've been watching the traffic this morning - looks like the roundabouts north of the kincardine bridge and clanamannan(? - sorry not local) are the pinch points. I'll get to find out myself on Friday...

[Edinburger]

Davie said:

I did Dunfermline > Dunbar and back yesterday and it was uncannily quiet... no hold ups at all, even at Kincardine and Hermiston. The biggest balls up is the roundabout south of the Kincardine - Kincardine bridge traffic has a 'filter' round the outside of the roundabout on to the M876 so no stopping at the give way as Clacks bridge trafiic is filtered in to the inside lane and thus the fast lane of the M876... however, Clacks bridge traffic southbound has to stop to yeild to traffic headed north off the M876 and cutting over their path on to the Kincardine bridge.

The closue of the A985 is frankly ludicrous... granted Friday was a disaster but you'd think most people will have no planned other routes, ie A9 from the north past Stirling and then Kinross > Kincardine thus taking some of the strain off the A985. Granted, yes... still a huge amount of traffic but with extra trains and buses, the 11 mile tailbacks should be a one off. Closing the road to private traffic is going to be fun... detour down the Bogside road or over Knockhill, awesome!

My sister is now debating leaving her car in Dalmeny and getting the train over the bridge and then pick it up from there... when public transport allows but being on shifts, at 3am that's not an option and I gather the A985 is closed regardless of time, so looking like a fairly significant detour via Bogside and the Kincardine Bridge. That'll be fun if we get snow or ice.

Hopefully the planners / trains / buses will kick into some sort of action plan this week and the dust will settle slightly. I feel for those who have no choice but to travel and those whose businesses will be hit hard by this. The ripples will travel far and wide I suspect!

I initially thought the closure of the A985 is ludicrous but it does at least mean that the slower moving vehicles are mainly on that road. I was across the water on Friday and decided to go up the M90 then joined the A91 (Jct. 6, from memory?) which took me through Dollar > Alva > Stirling to the M80 southbound. Longer route but at least it was without the frustration of standstill traffic.

I know a few friends who spoke about leaving their car at Dalmeny and one did that and got the train from Dunfermline this morning (he works in Livingston)... but the train was so full that it didn't stop at Dalmeny so he had to get off at Haymarket and get another train back to Dalmeny!