cooler air to the filter/airflow meter
Discussion
Ok Guys, here's me thoughts....
Any engine will run better if the air into it is cooler, for starters fibre glass holds the heat in, there isnt a great deal of ventilation in the engine bay and in the case of the sx the filter is in just about the worst posision you could think of behind the plenum,HOT,HOT,HOT....especilly in an Aussie summer 40deg+.....I'm thinking if I make a really smart ally air box to go over the K&N and attach to the bulkhead/firewall(the K&N intake ID is 66mm)with two 50mm inlets into the air box which will feed cool air from the two holes just inside from the driving lights in the front spoiler (there are already pipes from these to the dash air vents which i never use as roof is never on)if i run a silicone pipe from each hole to the air box I think this will go a long way to supplying a better and cooler air feed. As mensioned if the inlet to the air flow is 66mmID then if I can get two pipes to it at 46mmID or more each, then i think that should be an equal volume of air.
Thoughts and feedback positive or negative welcome
Cheers
Adam
Any engine will run better if the air into it is cooler, for starters fibre glass holds the heat in, there isnt a great deal of ventilation in the engine bay and in the case of the sx the filter is in just about the worst posision you could think of behind the plenum,HOT,HOT,HOT....especilly in an Aussie summer 40deg+.....I'm thinking if I make a really smart ally air box to go over the K&N and attach to the bulkhead/firewall(the K&N intake ID is 66mm)with two 50mm inlets into the air box which will feed cool air from the two holes just inside from the driving lights in the front spoiler (there are already pipes from these to the dash air vents which i never use as roof is never on)if i run a silicone pipe from each hole to the air box I think this will go a long way to supplying a better and cooler air feed. As mensioned if the inlet to the air flow is 66mmID then if I can get two pipes to it at 46mmID or more each, then i think that should be an equal volume of air.
Thoughts and feedback positive or negative welcome
Cheers
Adam
Adam there is a school of thought that the air coming over the bonnet rolls back into the area where the wipe blade hides and this is a good are to take cooler air from.
I got this info from talking to a few of the racing tuscan drives as its been found to have a slight pressure increase aswell as been cooler air than having the air filters out of the bonnet.
Is there a way to make a heat shield for the filter so it can only draw air from the top end of the bonnet.
I have make a temp shield for my s
SEAC to see if it will make a difference, i also have a cheep temp sensor on a long wire held in the area of thebfilter to see temp differences from stationary too moving, its just cardboard covered in silver tape but if it works ill make out of alloy. I havent limited air flow just made it more focused to the filter.
Good luck with your idea. Post some pics when you have some thing in place.
Cambelt
I got this info from talking to a few of the racing tuscan drives as its been found to have a slight pressure increase aswell as been cooler air than having the air filters out of the bonnet.
Is there a way to make a heat shield for the filter so it can only draw air from the top end of the bonnet.
I have make a temp shield for my s
SEAC to see if it will make a difference, i also have a cheep temp sensor on a long wire held in the area of thebfilter to see temp differences from stationary too moving, its just cardboard covered in silver tape but if it works ill make out of alloy. I havent limited air flow just made it more focused to the filter.
Good luck with your idea. Post some pics when you have some thing in place.
Cambelt
Ok Wedgemen......
topic bumped!!!!!
I have my prototype started, Im posting it now, as i go, so you can give advice or make comment while it is in production.....
I will be making this out of fiberglass, i was going to use Ally but it will just get hot, fibreglass on the other hand will keep the heat out.now you should see the concertina pipe that feeds the dash vents well both left and right will now feed cold air from the front air dam direct into the air filter box...the inlets are not on the box yet ive just marked where to put them tonight.....
I also took on board what cambelt said re.cool air flowing over the bonnet and down into the top of the engine bay.
now this is a work in progress and a bit of an exeriment but i think anything is a help, i will also be fitting a heat shield gasket for the plenum im hoping to be able to fit a 10mm one...
please all comments welcome, ive done some research as cold air induction is common here in OZ but not on TVRs
Cheers
Adam
topic bumped!!!!!
I have my prototype started, Im posting it now, as i go, so you can give advice or make comment while it is in production.....
I will be making this out of fiberglass, i was going to use Ally but it will just get hot, fibreglass on the other hand will keep the heat out.now you should see the concertina pipe that feeds the dash vents well both left and right will now feed cold air from the front air dam direct into the air filter box...the inlets are not on the box yet ive just marked where to put them tonight.....
I also took on board what cambelt said re.cool air flowing over the bonnet and down into the top of the engine bay.
now this is a work in progress and a bit of an exeriment but i think anything is a help, i will also be fitting a heat shield gasket for the plenum im hoping to be able to fit a 10mm one...
please all comments welcome, ive done some research as cold air induction is common here in OZ but not on TVRs
Cheers
Adam
The airbox seems reasonable - although beware of restrictions which will reduce the WOT boost.
Can you do these things and get readings before and after:
a) manifold air pressure
b) inlet temperature just inside the air filter?
For (a) I got a cheap pressure gauge and run to the middle vacuum takeoff port on the plenum ( the one with the blanking plug). I used an old takeoff for the vacuum servo - but suck a wire inside to defeat the one-way valve. Then take a pipe through the bulkhead grommet to the binnacle where you can see the gauge. I can see 6PSI boost up to around 4k RPM.
For (b) use a K-type thermocouple and a cheap multimeter.
Can you do these things and get readings before and after:
a) manifold air pressure
b) inlet temperature just inside the air filter?
For (a) I got a cheap pressure gauge and run to the middle vacuum takeoff port on the plenum ( the one with the blanking plug). I used an old takeoff for the vacuum servo - but suck a wire inside to defeat the one-way valve. Then take a pipe through the bulkhead grommet to the binnacle where you can see the gauge. I can see 6PSI boost up to around 4k RPM.
For (b) use a K-type thermocouple and a cheap multimeter.
Oz2 said:
I have even found an inline turbine style fan so I could even force the air up from the air dam....
It may well be the case that between ram-air effect and intake depression, the airflow through the pipe could be greater without a silly fan in the way than with it... i.e. the fan might pose an obstruction.Adam in liking your air box, have you been using it on the car when you took it out for your big hot run...
The open end you have on the right side... are you goign to force air into that end or close it off...
I have been playing with a temp heat sheld covered in alloy tape around the filter and have used a cheep temp gauge with a long wire in the area of the filter, ive run the car with and with out the sheld and the temp difference was quite a bit.
Look forward to seeing the final out come Adam
Cambelt
The open end you have on the right side... are you goign to force air into that end or close it off...
I have been playing with a temp heat sheld covered in alloy tape around the filter and have used a cheep temp gauge with a long wire in the area of the filter, ive run the car with and with out the sheld and the temp difference was quite a bit.
Look forward to seeing the final out come Adam
Cambelt
Cold air is very important so I like the idea. It would make a difference in the UK let alone where you are.
I have a couple of suggestions: try and put a bell mouth edge on the box inlet or else you'll see a surprisingly high flow restriction; and make sure rain running down the windscreen won't flood the air inlet.
I'm with Adam Q too; get a thermocouple and make sure you're not shooting yourself in the foot. I'd assume the back edge of the bonnet is where most of the engine bay heat escapes so if you mask some of the cross sectional area you may end up with higher underbonnet temperatures and a hot spot at the base of the screen... only one way to find out!
I have a couple of suggestions: try and put a bell mouth edge on the box inlet or else you'll see a surprisingly high flow restriction; and make sure rain running down the windscreen won't flood the air inlet.
I'm with Adam Q too; get a thermocouple and make sure you're not shooting yourself in the foot. I'd assume the back edge of the bonnet is where most of the engine bay heat escapes so if you mask some of the cross sectional area you may end up with higher underbonnet temperatures and a hot spot at the base of the screen... only one way to find out!
[quote=Campbell]Adam in liking your air box, have you been using it on the car when you took it out for your big hot run...
no I`ve not used it at all yet, it`s only made of ply, mdf and bog, it would probably go up in flames.........
so much for cool air, i think i`ll just have to bite the bullet and make it.....
and keep me fingers`n`toes crossed
no I`ve not used it at all yet, it`s only made of ply, mdf and bog, it would probably go up in flames.........
so much for cool air, i think i`ll just have to bite the bullet and make it.....and keep me fingers`n`toes crossed
a bit more progress...
I did`nt like that small slot and it was obstructing the bonnet closing so I`ve cut more away and along the edge i can put a stiff foam rubber strip so it seals to the bonnet when it is closed.....
I`m now thinking about what Adam Q and the Hatter have said re. the obstruction of exiting hot air,
all up it only 190mm so it will only take a small % of the gap at the top of the bonnet, the older 350s have no bonnet vents so maybe this will equal it out, as you say only one way to find out.....
Wedg1e, what was i thinking, those silly fan things!!!!!! I`ve done a bit more R`n`D and as you say the longer the air travels along the hose the quicker it goes, however where it penatrates the wheel arches i`ll need to fit a couple of 90deg bends which may slow the flow....
Here are the points where the hose fit to the airbox
you can just see the passenger side pipe attach point under the AFM....
here it is out of the car, the large hole is only there so you can get the filter in once fitted it will have a cover plate.
this is basicly a plug from it i`ll make a mould then I can make some airboxes, but they`ll only fit SX`s, but if it works, IF, then the concept should work where the air filter usually goes maybe better..
Keep your thoughts comming, it really helps
Cheers
Adam
Adam Q are you on Skype, any of you?
I did`nt like that small slot and it was obstructing the bonnet closing so I`ve cut more away and along the edge i can put a stiff foam rubber strip so it seals to the bonnet when it is closed.....
I`m now thinking about what Adam Q and the Hatter have said re. the obstruction of exiting hot air,
all up it only 190mm so it will only take a small % of the gap at the top of the bonnet, the older 350s have no bonnet vents so maybe this will equal it out, as you say only one way to find out.....
Wedg1e, what was i thinking, those silly fan things!!!!!! I`ve done a bit more R`n`D and as you say the longer the air travels along the hose the quicker it goes, however where it penatrates the wheel arches i`ll need to fit a couple of 90deg bends which may slow the flow....
Here are the points where the hose fit to the airbox
you can just see the passenger side pipe attach point under the AFM....
here it is out of the car, the large hole is only there so you can get the filter in once fitted it will have a cover plate.
this is basicly a plug from it i`ll make a mould then I can make some airboxes, but they`ll only fit SX`s, but if it works, IF, then the concept should work where the air filter usually goes maybe better..
Keep your thoughts comming, it really helps
Cheers
Adam
Adam Q are you on Skype, any of you?
Seems a good idea..I know that apollo induction kits are enclosed and providing you have a good/large enough cold air intake feed then you shouldnt have any problems..Some people use paint tins and lag them with heat proof bandage and then have a cold air feed coming into it from the nose cone or inner wing..Make sure it doesnt collect water..Water is no good for fibreglass..Also dont use corrugated hose for air feed, Smooth bore is a lot better..Looks good but will it work?..I hope so..Good luck mate..Ziga
I found this..As said a paint tin is not a bad mod but would need heat proof paint or bandage to keep the heat down from the engine bay..With a smooth bore cold air feed it would work well..Plus i dont think it would sound tinny with a V8 sucking the life out of it..
..
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=H...
I found this..As said a paint tin is not a bad mod but would need heat proof paint or bandage to keep the heat down from the engine bay..With a smooth bore cold air feed it would work well..Plus i dont think it would sound tinny with a V8 sucking the life out of it..
..http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=H...
Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 15th November 15:09
Hi All,
Well I decided to try to make a bit more room and try to tidy up the heater hoses, which was all well and good until I tried to manipulate the bridge hose, it was so brittle it just snapped and of course water pissed everywhere,at least its not going to let go while i`m out now. any way its all back together now and much neater and a bit more room for the airbox.......
I have now finished the plug from which the mould will be made and my mate the slushy or fiberglasser has had a look and all is ok but because it is so intricate the mould will have to be in three bits, but this is good as it means the mould is good for more than one use, so if it works and you own an SX..........
I`ve now found a place that supplies the silicone hose and these u~bute joiners and in black too!!!!so i`ll try to get them tomorrow....and slushy Dave will glass it up next week, so a couple of weeks and we`ll know if I`ve completely waisted my time......
Well I decided to try to make a bit more room and try to tidy up the heater hoses, which was all well and good until I tried to manipulate the bridge hose, it was so brittle it just snapped and of course water pissed everywhere,at least its not going to let go while i`m out now. any way its all back together now and much neater and a bit more room for the airbox.......
I have now finished the plug from which the mould will be made and my mate the slushy or fiberglasser has had a look and all is ok but because it is so intricate the mould will have to be in three bits, but this is good as it means the mould is good for more than one use, so if it works and you own an SX..........
I`ve now found a place that supplies the silicone hose and these u~bute joiners and in black too!!!!so i`ll try to get them tomorrow....and slushy Dave will glass it up next week, so a couple of weeks and we`ll know if I`ve completely waisted my time......
Interesting post Oz2, I'm currently looking at this too.
Haven't had time to have a serious look yet but I'm thinking isolating the filter (I like the paint pot idea!) and then ducting cool air from the front of the car (possibly from the front scoop and getting a bit of 'ram air' effect going) maybe the way to go. (Your filter is in a totally different place to mind though of course).
Have you considered water injection??
Another learning curve......
Tim (400SE)
Haven't had time to have a serious look yet but I'm thinking isolating the filter (I like the paint pot idea!) and then ducting cool air from the front of the car (possibly from the front scoop and getting a bit of 'ram air' effect going) maybe the way to go. (Your filter is in a totally different place to mind though of course).
Have you considered water injection??
Another learning curve......
Tim (400SE)
Edited by TimboNZ on Thursday 17th November 20:36
Ok chaps,
the mould has been cast....
going well so far I`ll drill and bolt the flanges together tomorrow so it will re~locate then we can split the mould and get the blue plug out and finally make the product...... if this works it will fit any wedge you would just have to turn over the AFM and locate as in the SX`s i`m not sure how many i could pop out of this mould before it is knackered, but hey lets see if it works first;)otherwise it will be a fancy plant pot, maybe we could hold a comp for possible uses.....
Adam
the mould has been cast....
going well so far I`ll drill and bolt the flanges together tomorrow so it will re~locate then we can split the mould and get the blue plug out and finally make the product...... if this works it will fit any wedge you would just have to turn over the AFM and locate as in the SX`s i`m not sure how many i could pop out of this mould before it is knackered, but hey lets see if it works first;)otherwise it will be a fancy plant pot, maybe we could hold a comp for possible uses.....
Adam
somthing to show!
now the only testing I have done so far is drive it hard an all seems well....
I was able to test the temp all be it a bit crude with a digital thermometer and a metal probe that I was able to cable tie to the filter.
The temp on the day was 27 degrees.
With the probe on the outside of the air box (in the engine bay) the top temp driving at speed was 44 degrees, in traffic it went up to 55 degrees (40 min drive).
with the probe on the inside of the airbox, attached to the filter (40 min drive home) the temp averaged at 22 degrees somtimes rising to 27-28 degrees in traffic 31-32 degrees and parked 35 degrees.....
As you can see in the pics i am still using the old plastic tubing that used to feed the air vents in the dash so room for improvment, but it does work and seems to be more responsive but the silicone pipes will make a big difference http://www.mscn.com.au/scripts/prodView.asp?idprod...
Im also trying to get my hands on a boost gauge to test the pressure in the plenum..
Will keep you posted
Adam
now the only testing I have done so far is drive it hard an all seems well....
I was able to test the temp all be it a bit crude with a digital thermometer and a metal probe that I was able to cable tie to the filter.
The temp on the day was 27 degrees.
With the probe on the outside of the air box (in the engine bay) the top temp driving at speed was 44 degrees, in traffic it went up to 55 degrees (40 min drive).
with the probe on the inside of the airbox, attached to the filter (40 min drive home) the temp averaged at 22 degrees somtimes rising to 27-28 degrees in traffic 31-32 degrees and parked 35 degrees.....
As you can see in the pics i am still using the old plastic tubing that used to feed the air vents in the dash so room for improvment, but it does work and seems to be more responsive but the silicone pipes will make a big difference http://www.mscn.com.au/scripts/prodView.asp?idprod...
Im also trying to get my hands on a boost gauge to test the pressure in the plenum..
Will keep you posted
Adam
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff