ECU - replace/upgrade?
Discussion
My overfuelling problem appears to be the ECU according to my local garage who have the car, and a local ECU firm. The ECU has been determined as the cause of the injectors all fully opening on the turn of the key. I've suggested the sensors as recommended in my previous thread but the ECU has been blamed! The ECU bod checked the joints and some were dry - these have been resoldered and for a day the problem was fixed, however next morning the original symptom reappeared 
I am in New Zealand and not many ECU's are available here to slave in! My options are to send mine away for repair, or source a new/known serviceable item from the UK. Does anyone know where I can get an original ECU or recommend an alternative better ECU I can consider to ensure that the ECU is no longer in question. Please advise cost, and shipping will need to be considered so I can work out if its economical via UK or try somewhere like these locally http://www.linkecu.com/products/engine-management-... or www.ecu.co.nz
As said, my garage has eliminated the sensors but if it's not the ECU and turns out to be a sensor then the garage wont be making any money to fix this!
I am in New Zealand and not many ECU's are available here to slave in! My options are to send mine away for repair, or source a new/known serviceable item from the UK. Does anyone know where I can get an original ECU or recommend an alternative better ECU I can consider to ensure that the ECU is no longer in question. Please advise cost, and shipping will need to be considered so I can work out if its economical via UK or try somewhere like these locally http://www.linkecu.com/products/engine-management-... or www.ecu.co.nz
As said, my garage has eliminated the sensors but if it's not the ECU and turns out to be a sensor then the garage wont be making any money to fix this!
There's one on ebay at the mo---Item number: 130550204020
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-TASMIN-V8-3-5-REMANU...
£50 start price and 7 day left but you never know.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-TASMIN-V8-3-5-REMANU...
£50 start price and 7 day left but you never know.
Hi Mate..I would be more inclined to send off the original one for repair..Re-soldering is ok if its all done but doing a couple of joints might cause others to be stressed..At least if the whole board is done then its peace of mind..Good luck..Ziga
PS: These guys are in the UK but deal internationally..
http://www.ecu-repairs.com/engine-ecus/?kw=ECU%20r...
PS: These guys are in the UK but deal internationally..
http://www.ecu-repairs.com/engine-ecus/?kw=ECU%20r...
Edited by mrzigazaga on Saturday 23 July 11:01
>> The ECU bod checked the joints and some were dry - these have been resoldered and for a day the >problem was fixed, however next morning the original symptom reappeared
This is your problem then, as the Zig says,, buy a soldering iron and some good solder for £20 (or whatever NZ$) and take the lids off the ECU, then go over THE WHOLE BOARD and reflow every joint, on both sides.
Also double-check the engine temperature sensor and wiring back to the ECU multiplug, and the throttle pot and wiring.
This is your problem then, as the Zig says,, buy a soldering iron and some good solder for £20 (or whatever NZ$) and take the lids off the ECU, then go over THE WHOLE BOARD and reflow every joint, on both sides.
Also double-check the engine temperature sensor and wiring back to the ECU multiplug, and the throttle pot and wiring.
Adam's right! More testing is needed.
Your description of a garage declaring that the ECU is toast because of a few dry joints causing over-fuelling does not ring true. Then they fixed it and the problem later comes back! That's unusual. More likely to be a local multi-plug playing silly bluggers.
They also declare that the sensors checked out OK, they generally do, but its also a generally accepted fact that less than 20% of all flapper problems are due to component failure. More so because with the exception of the Throt Pot, they are all pretty much bullet-proof.
Yup, the ECU can croak and cause over-fuelling but generally not intermittently and generally not due to the soldered joints around the power output transistors that occasionally fail.
So what of the remaining 80% of problem causes? Would you believe, Efi wiring loom plus air leaks. Well its not gonna be air leaks causing over-fuelling, so that leaves Efi wiring probs.
And the prime suspect will be the connections between the CTS and the ECU. After that, a few more components come under suspicion, CSI, TP, FPR, even the AFM. Each and every one can be tested according to simple procedures but for comprehensive electrical checks, the components have to be tested from the ECU multiplug, as specified in all the Rover/Lucas/Bosch test procedures.
Might be a good idea to introduce your garage to the Efi component archive found here
There are other ways to chase down electrical connection probs, mainly by visual inspection, violent loom wriggling, continuity meter, simple cleaning with switch cleaner or WD40, etc, all have their place in the armoury of an experienced tester, but the bottom line is that its generally NOT an actual component failure.
Your description of a garage declaring that the ECU is toast because of a few dry joints causing over-fuelling does not ring true. Then they fixed it and the problem later comes back! That's unusual. More likely to be a local multi-plug playing silly bluggers.
They also declare that the sensors checked out OK, they generally do, but its also a generally accepted fact that less than 20% of all flapper problems are due to component failure. More so because with the exception of the Throt Pot, they are all pretty much bullet-proof.
Yup, the ECU can croak and cause over-fuelling but generally not intermittently and generally not due to the soldered joints around the power output transistors that occasionally fail.
So what of the remaining 80% of problem causes? Would you believe, Efi wiring loom plus air leaks. Well its not gonna be air leaks causing over-fuelling, so that leaves Efi wiring probs.
And the prime suspect will be the connections between the CTS and the ECU. After that, a few more components come under suspicion, CSI, TP, FPR, even the AFM. Each and every one can be tested according to simple procedures but for comprehensive electrical checks, the components have to be tested from the ECU multiplug, as specified in all the Rover/Lucas/Bosch test procedures.
Might be a good idea to introduce your garage to the Efi component archive found here
There are other ways to chase down electrical connection probs, mainly by visual inspection, violent loom wriggling, continuity meter, simple cleaning with switch cleaner or WD40, etc, all have their place in the armoury of an experienced tester, but the bottom line is that its generally NOT an actual component failure.
honestjohntoo said:
Yup, the ECU can croak and cause over-fuelling but generally not intermittently and generally not due to the soldered joints around the power output transistors that occasionally fail.
I beg to differ. The ECU can intermittently overfuel due to solder issues, however it's not usually around the power devices that the problem presents.
ROOODBOY said:
Caution!
I bought an remanufactured ecu from that Ebay seller a while back and it lasted about two days before completely failing and making the car a non-runner!
Might have just been bad luck, but be careful.
All you had to do was contact me and i would have sent you another one free of charge.I bought an remanufactured ecu from that Ebay seller a while back and it lasted about two days before completely failing and making the car a non-runner!
Might have just been bad luck, but be careful.
Could have been bad luck (likely)..or a lack of knowledge (often as well). I am not a TVR expert..but I know the engine well. I am not sure whether you are trying to resolve a Hotwire or a Flapper issue so I will do both.
HOTWIRE, first
Firstly, communication with injectors is done with resistance (ohms). If the wires or the internals are compromised and the injector wires are earthed, the injectors spray non-stop and mightily until the engine hydro-locks (fills to the brim with petrol until movement of the pistons is not possible). At that point, you must drain the engine, and refill it with oil.
As for buying 14CUXs, there are a number of different carcasses (a "carcass" is the nomenclature for an unchipped ECU) and most people can happily ignore them. Sadly TVR, Morgan (and a couple of others) should not. The TVR chips are different from stock and they use a rare 14CUX carcass of the 14CUX..part # AMR 2175.
If the chip is fried, an expert like Mark Adams will be required...either to purchase one of his 14CUX chips (which are made for all uses of the engine), or have him make you a bespoke chip likely using another carcass.
But if the carcass only is shot..then ideally, you will be set right with a known GOOD carcass to which you switch your existing TVR chip switch. I can recommend a excellent source..in the UK. There is a company that will take your old unit, and either repair it or swap it for another AMR 2175 and transfer your chip. They also have a special vehicle set up for 14CUX testing, so it is running well when they send it back. 12 month warranty and 24 hours turnaround service. £225
The fellow you want is;
Mike Walker. mike@atpelectronics.co.uk
Direct line # 01543 427 904
http://www.atpelectronics.co.uk/
ATP Electronic Developments Ltd
Cannock Wood Industrial Estate
Cannock Wood Street
Cannock
Staffordshire
WS12 0PL
England
Phone: +44 (0)1543 427900
Fax: +44 (0)1543 425804
FLAPPER
Earthed injector wires are a very common malady but so is a sad ECU. The injector wires can be rubbed raw if they pass through a bulkhead or the like that frays them. As well, over time (and NOW is the time), the solder in the ECU begins to crack and the many of these ECUs are finally failing. I find that 1 out of 2 of the ones on ebay are c**p. But it still makes them worth it at 10-20£ each. Sometimes, a fault will not appear for an hour or two of driving..so make sure the test tun is a long one!
There are only a few variants to the Flapper 4CU ECUs (if we forget about the USA TR8s..please!) But the choice is important for a light sports car. The variants are part #s 84477. 84941 and 83986. The first two will change your performance to something you will probably not like as they sacrifice top end for a stump pulling low end.. But they are the most commonly found units. You want the 83986 (A or B)
L.
HOTWIRE, first
Firstly, communication with injectors is done with resistance (ohms). If the wires or the internals are compromised and the injector wires are earthed, the injectors spray non-stop and mightily until the engine hydro-locks (fills to the brim with petrol until movement of the pistons is not possible). At that point, you must drain the engine, and refill it with oil.
As for buying 14CUXs, there are a number of different carcasses (a "carcass" is the nomenclature for an unchipped ECU) and most people can happily ignore them. Sadly TVR, Morgan (and a couple of others) should not. The TVR chips are different from stock and they use a rare 14CUX carcass of the 14CUX..part # AMR 2175.
If the chip is fried, an expert like Mark Adams will be required...either to purchase one of his 14CUX chips (which are made for all uses of the engine), or have him make you a bespoke chip likely using another carcass.
But if the carcass only is shot..then ideally, you will be set right with a known GOOD carcass to which you switch your existing TVR chip switch. I can recommend a excellent source..in the UK. There is a company that will take your old unit, and either repair it or swap it for another AMR 2175 and transfer your chip. They also have a special vehicle set up for 14CUX testing, so it is running well when they send it back. 12 month warranty and 24 hours turnaround service. £225
The fellow you want is;
Mike Walker. mike@atpelectronics.co.uk
Direct line # 01543 427 904
http://www.atpelectronics.co.uk/
ATP Electronic Developments Ltd
Cannock Wood Industrial Estate
Cannock Wood Street
Cannock
Staffordshire
WS12 0PL
England
Phone: +44 (0)1543 427900
Fax: +44 (0)1543 425804
FLAPPER
Earthed injector wires are a very common malady but so is a sad ECU. The injector wires can be rubbed raw if they pass through a bulkhead or the like that frays them. As well, over time (and NOW is the time), the solder in the ECU begins to crack and the many of these ECUs are finally failing. I find that 1 out of 2 of the ones on ebay are c**p. But it still makes them worth it at 10-20£ each. Sometimes, a fault will not appear for an hour or two of driving..so make sure the test tun is a long one!
There are only a few variants to the Flapper 4CU ECUs (if we forget about the USA TR8s..please!) But the choice is important for a light sports car. The variants are part #s 84477. 84941 and 83986. The first two will change your performance to something you will probably not like as they sacrifice top end for a stump pulling low end.. But they are the most commonly found units. You want the 83986 (A or B)
L.
Edited by plushuit on Monday 1st August 03:03
plushuit said:
The first two will change your performance to something you will probably not like as they sacrifice top end for a stump pulling low end.. But they are the most commonly found units. You want the 83986 (A or B)
Even that's not the end to it though as each and every 4CU ECU of whatever variant I've worked on has been tuned slightly differently, so even two supposedly identical ECUs give differing performance on the same car... as Hotty and I proved on his car at this years 'Fest.You can take a RangeRover or other 4CU variant and 'make it fit' the tune of your TVR motor... but it takes time.
Wedg1e said:
You can take a RangeRover or other 4CU variant and 'make it fit' the tune of your TVR motor... but it takes time.
Not really. You can fiddle with the AFM spring tension or fuel pressure and improve low and mid range but you WILL lose top end no matter what you do. The nicest thing one can say about the non-TVR variants is that they will make the car run decently up to 3500-4000rpm.Thanks to everyone for their advice and here I am a year on needing a serviceable ECU if anyone has one they no longer require.
It's not urgent but will be either used in the car or as a spare.
My car was off the road for a few months due to starter motor problems and storage issues.
Anyway, having had the car back it now has a similar fault to last time. Before it was full on over fuelling and the ECU was sent to another firm for sorting it. After getting it back, the car ran better than ever however, it now has a random intermittent fault of over fuelling the left bank causing running on 4 cylinders.
Pull a plug lead, or leave off for a day or two, and with a strong spark all is well, but after an hour or so fault returns. The ECU is being returned for re-repair but it would be nice to have a good one to use.
I'm on the lookout locally for a Range Rover one from the same era, but the wedge fraternity may have a good one up their sleeve.
If that works well, then my original ECU can be sent to the UK to a recommended firm for a thorough refurb.
Cheers all.
It's not urgent but will be either used in the car or as a spare.
My car was off the road for a few months due to starter motor problems and storage issues.
Anyway, having had the car back it now has a similar fault to last time. Before it was full on over fuelling and the ECU was sent to another firm for sorting it. After getting it back, the car ran better than ever however, it now has a random intermittent fault of over fuelling the left bank causing running on 4 cylinders.
Pull a plug lead, or leave off for a day or two, and with a strong spark all is well, but after an hour or so fault returns. The ECU is being returned for re-repair but it would be nice to have a good one to use.
I'm on the lookout locally for a Range Rover one from the same era, but the wedge fraternity may have a good one up their sleeve.
If that works well, then my original ECU can be sent to the UK to a recommended firm for a thorough refurb.
Cheers all.
Mark,
I sympathise, it's a bugger finding parts sometimes here in NZ. (Cologne 2.8 isn't very common either !!)
A couple of wild ideas, which might be silly, but.....
Do carbs fit under the bonnet ?? (Yeah, I know, but as a temporary fix up...)
Have you heard of the 'megasquirt' system ? it's a DIY engine management system, and it's cheap.
Works for most Ford and GM setups - if it has a flapper type vane etc, should be do-able ?
I sympathise, it's a bugger finding parts sometimes here in NZ. (Cologne 2.8 isn't very common either !!)
A couple of wild ideas, which might be silly, but.....
Do carbs fit under the bonnet ?? (Yeah, I know, but as a temporary fix up...)
Have you heard of the 'megasquirt' system ? it's a DIY engine management system, and it's cheap.
Works for most Ford and GM setups - if it has a flapper type vane etc, should be do-able ?
plushuit said:
Not really. You can fiddle with the AFM spring tension or fuel pressure and improve low and mid range but you WILL lose top end no matter what you do. The nicest thing one can say about the non-TVR variants is that they will make the car run decently up to 3500-4000rpm.
I missed this last time around... 
All the 4CU variants use the same circuit boards (we'll leave out the US lambda-equipped variants) however there are a number of resistor pairs on the PCB that calibrate various aspects of the fuel delivery, some in conjunction with the scaling of the airflow meter.
If you know which components to change you can make any one 4CU behave the same as almost any other 4CU - all the way to 6000rpm and beyond.
You're correct that swapping in a random 4CU will tend to give you some driveability; a better ooption is to swap the ECU and AFM as a known matched pair.
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff