New 350i owner
Discussion
The Hatter said:
It might be a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway. Do all Rover V8s have the same diameter flywheels with the same number of teeth? Ralph, have you studied the old and new starter pinions, and their relationship to the mounting bolt position?
Yes the flywheels are all the same dia (and teeth I reckon) but you do get different diameter clutches bolted on.Hi Ralph,That looks a nice car,and you are making progress I have read through the posts,with interest my background is in vehicle repair,some times I wish, I could be there to look, or show ,or help.I have indeed come across starter nose castings failing.
I can not give a one off definite hard and fast reason for failure.But some observations.
1- The original starter motors casting did not fail.It failed probably due to age and the repeated attempts to crank the engine.
2-The starters you have been fitting if they are chinese are not made the same,quality of most is very poor and they use different castings.
3-The engine stops in nearly the same place,wear is usually confined to a few teeth,damage to the ring gear can normally be rectified at an early stage by filling the effected teeth carefully.
4-The clutch,numerous times I have chosen to replace the plate only,when refitting an engine after a rebuild,and if an engine or gearbox seal has failed,and also when young and skint,this has worked time on.
5 -The heavy pedal is a symptom of a worn clutch cover,but could be clutch fork,the hydraulics,even debris from the starter failures.
6-The stuck bolt,and the alignment of the starter,some starters have a dowel to align the starter other use the hole in the bell housing,is the dowel missing or the new starters different in dimension where they enter the bell housing.The bolt is steel into aluminium,it should be possible to remove,heating,carefully or the freezing/unseizing sprays work well,can you get two nuts on the remaining thread lock them together with 2 spanners and remove.
My thoughts are that the broken starter problem has only occured with the replacement of the starter and the problem is the new starter or is alignment and fitting to the vehicle,eliminate the broken bolt,ensure there is no debris inside the bell housing,check for the fitment of dowels,find somebody that can rebuild the original starter,or measure carefully every dimension and the throw of the pinion,depth of engagement on the replacements you are fitting.A google of a few landrover/rangerover forums or specialists might also highlight problems they are having with after market starters
I also would want a run out of the vehicle,before removing engine and box,I would want to check,the other major components,diff and gearbox for undue noise and proper operation,brakes,wheel bearings,a good drive will reveal a lot about the car,you will be able to cost the repairs to your budget.You will also be able to see where your at with the engine side of things.
If you can sort the starter problem,get the engine running well,and the clutch is just heavy,you may be able to live with the car like this,whilst you sort the interior and paint and generally improve it.You also get to see if the TVR suits you and don't miss a summer of fun.
The starters we had fail were faulty starter casting,and or machining problems with bell housings,but aftermarket starters have also caused a lot of problems,I have seen us fit 3 or 4 replacements to a vehicle every one failing dramatically,I personally would rather keep the original and rebuild,hope you soon sort the car,and sorry we are not a little closer as I would have popped over to help.
I can not give a one off definite hard and fast reason for failure.But some observations.
1- The original starter motors casting did not fail.It failed probably due to age and the repeated attempts to crank the engine.
2-The starters you have been fitting if they are chinese are not made the same,quality of most is very poor and they use different castings.
3-The engine stops in nearly the same place,wear is usually confined to a few teeth,damage to the ring gear can normally be rectified at an early stage by filling the effected teeth carefully.
4-The clutch,numerous times I have chosen to replace the plate only,when refitting an engine after a rebuild,and if an engine or gearbox seal has failed,and also when young and skint,this has worked time on.
5 -The heavy pedal is a symptom of a worn clutch cover,but could be clutch fork,the hydraulics,even debris from the starter failures.
6-The stuck bolt,and the alignment of the starter,some starters have a dowel to align the starter other use the hole in the bell housing,is the dowel missing or the new starters different in dimension where they enter the bell housing.The bolt is steel into aluminium,it should be possible to remove,heating,carefully or the freezing/unseizing sprays work well,can you get two nuts on the remaining thread lock them together with 2 spanners and remove.
My thoughts are that the broken starter problem has only occured with the replacement of the starter and the problem is the new starter or is alignment and fitting to the vehicle,eliminate the broken bolt,ensure there is no debris inside the bell housing,check for the fitment of dowels,find somebody that can rebuild the original starter,or measure carefully every dimension and the throw of the pinion,depth of engagement on the replacements you are fitting.A google of a few landrover/rangerover forums or specialists might also highlight problems they are having with after market starters
I also would want a run out of the vehicle,before removing engine and box,I would want to check,the other major components,diff and gearbox for undue noise and proper operation,brakes,wheel bearings,a good drive will reveal a lot about the car,you will be able to cost the repairs to your budget.You will also be able to see where your at with the engine side of things.
If you can sort the starter problem,get the engine running well,and the clutch is just heavy,you may be able to live with the car like this,whilst you sort the interior and paint and generally improve it.You also get to see if the TVR suits you and don't miss a summer of fun.
The starters we had fail were faulty starter casting,and or machining problems with bell housings,but aftermarket starters have also caused a lot of problems,I have seen us fit 3 or 4 replacements to a vehicle every one failing dramatically,I personally would rather keep the original and rebuild,hope you soon sort the car,and sorry we are not a little closer as I would have popped over to help.
Valvoltec said:
Hi Ralph,That looks a nice car,and you are making progress I have read through the posts,with interest my background is in vehicle repair,some times I wish, I could be there to look, or show ,or help.I have indeed come across starter nose castings failing.
I can not give a one off definite hard and fast reason for failure.But some observations.
1- The original starter motors casting did not fail.It failed probably due to age and the repeated attempts to crank the engine.
2-The starters you have been fitting if they are chinese are not made the same,quality of most is very poor and they use different castings.
3-The engine stops in nearly the same place,wear is usually confined to a few teeth,damage to the ring gear can normally be rectified at an early stage by filling the effected teeth carefully.
4-The clutch,numerous times I have chosen to replace the plate only,when refitting an engine after a rebuild,and if an engine or gearbox seal has failed,and also when young and skint,this has worked time on.
5 -The heavy pedal is a symptom of a worn clutch cover,but could be clutch fork,the hydraulics,even debris from the starter failures.
6-The stuck bolt,and the alignment of the starter,some starters have a dowel to align the starter other use the hole in the bell housing,is the dowel missing or the new starters different in dimension where they enter the bell housing.The bolt is steel into aluminium,it should be possible to remove,heating,carefully or the freezing/unseizing sprays work well,can you get two nuts on the remaining thread lock them together with 2 spanners and remove.
My thoughts are that the broken starter problem has only occured with the replacement of the starter and the problem is the new starter or is alignment and fitting to the vehicle,eliminate the broken bolt,ensure there is no debris inside the bell housing,check for the fitment of dowels,find somebody that can rebuild the original starter,or measure carefully every dimension and the throw of the pinion,depth of engagement on the replacements you are fitting.A google of a few landrover/rangerover forums or specialists might also highlight problems they are having with after market starters
I also would want a run out of the vehicle,before removing engine and box,I would want to check,the other major components,diff and gearbox for undue noise and proper operation,brakes,wheel bearings,a good drive will reveal a lot about the car,you will be able to cost the repairs to your budget.You will also be able to see where your at with the engine side of things.
If you can sort the starter problem,get the engine running well,and the clutch is just heavy,you may be able to live with the car like this,whilst you sort the interior and paint and generally improve it.You also get to see if the TVR suits you and don't miss a summer of fun.
The starters we had fail were faulty starter casting,and or machining problems with bell housings,but aftermarket starters have also caused a lot of problems,I have seen us fit 3 or 4 replacements to a vehicle every one failing dramatically,I personally would rather keep the original and rebuild,hope you soon sort the car,and sorry we are not a little closer as I would have popped over to help.
Hi ValvoltecI can not give a one off definite hard and fast reason for failure.But some observations.
1- The original starter motors casting did not fail.It failed probably due to age and the repeated attempts to crank the engine.
2-The starters you have been fitting if they are chinese are not made the same,quality of most is very poor and they use different castings.
3-The engine stops in nearly the same place,wear is usually confined to a few teeth,damage to the ring gear can normally be rectified at an early stage by filling the effected teeth carefully.
4-The clutch,numerous times I have chosen to replace the plate only,when refitting an engine after a rebuild,and if an engine or gearbox seal has failed,and also when young and skint,this has worked time on.
5 -The heavy pedal is a symptom of a worn clutch cover,but could be clutch fork,the hydraulics,even debris from the starter failures.
6-The stuck bolt,and the alignment of the starter,some starters have a dowel to align the starter other use the hole in the bell housing,is the dowel missing or the new starters different in dimension where they enter the bell housing.The bolt is steel into aluminium,it should be possible to remove,heating,carefully or the freezing/unseizing sprays work well,can you get two nuts on the remaining thread lock them together with 2 spanners and remove.
My thoughts are that the broken starter problem has only occured with the replacement of the starter and the problem is the new starter or is alignment and fitting to the vehicle,eliminate the broken bolt,ensure there is no debris inside the bell housing,check for the fitment of dowels,find somebody that can rebuild the original starter,or measure carefully every dimension and the throw of the pinion,depth of engagement on the replacements you are fitting.A google of a few landrover/rangerover forums or specialists might also highlight problems they are having with after market starters
I also would want a run out of the vehicle,before removing engine and box,I would want to check,the other major components,diff and gearbox for undue noise and proper operation,brakes,wheel bearings,a good drive will reveal a lot about the car,you will be able to cost the repairs to your budget.You will also be able to see where your at with the engine side of things.
If you can sort the starter problem,get the engine running well,and the clutch is just heavy,you may be able to live with the car like this,whilst you sort the interior and paint and generally improve it.You also get to see if the TVR suits you and don't miss a summer of fun.
The starters we had fail were faulty starter casting,and or machining problems with bell housings,but aftermarket starters have also caused a lot of problems,I have seen us fit 3 or 4 replacements to a vehicle every one failing dramatically,I personally would rather keep the original and rebuild,hope you soon sort the car,and sorry we are not a little closer as I would have popped over to help.
Many thanks for a great reply, i have the original starter and it does still work as i changed the solenoid and the fixing nuts have been resolved with a bit of engneering, so i,ll check the ring gear and if ok will try the starter and see what happens, the new starter are only breaking when the car begin to start??
The clutch i will bleed and try even if it is still heavy as you say, just to try and see what if anything needs to be addressed and if i like the car which am sure i will.
I am going to give the car a full service this weekend and sort out the exhausts as the flanges are not sealed and am getting alot of smoke from them into the engine bay, i have given the car the once over and it does look like brakes, wheel bearings, master cylinder and a number of other items have been resently addressed so hopefully not to much is need.
Many thanks & Kind Regards
Ralph
The Hatter said:
If the starter self destructs when the engine fires then I suspect the engine is trying to fire and rotate backwards, ie the timing is way too far advanced and it's firing before TDC. Although I agree Chinese starters may self destruct of their own accord!
Hi HatterInteresting mate as i have only semi-set the timing so the car will start, i,ll get a scrope light on it this weekend and report back.
Many thanks
Ralph
If you're not sure of the timing then based on what you've said I'd be tempted to retard the ignition 15 deg or so to start it. Then with it running don't forget to disconnect (and block the ports of) the vacuum advance to check with the strobe. And afterwards make sure the little plastic valve in the vac advance line is present and connected the right way around, and the diaphragm's not ruptured (suck on it and check it moves... technical eh!).
Good luck! It's sooo satisfying when you nail it!
Good luck! It's sooo satisfying when you nail it!
The Hatter said:
If you're not sure of the timing then based on what you've said I'd be tempted to retard the ignition 15 deg or so to start it. Then with it running don't forget to disconnect (and block the ports of) the vacuum advance to check with the strobe. And afterwards make sure the little plastic valve in the vac advance line is present and connected the right way around, and the diaphragm's not ruptured (suck on it and check it moves... technical eh!).
Good luck! It's sooo satisfying when you nail it!
Hi HatterGood luck! It's sooo satisfying when you nail it!
It must be techinical and good as you lossed me mate
Cheers Ralph
Sorry fellah...
Didn't mean to confuse you!
Take the dist cap off, stick the car in 4th gear and roll it forwards, see which way the rotor arm rotates. Then slacken the distributer clamp screw and turn the distributer body 15 deg or so in the same direction.
Then hook up the strobe, disconnect the vacuum advance on the side of the distributer and block the vacuum pipe.
Then fire it up (hopefully it'll fire...) and check with the strobe that you have the ignition at roughly 10 Deg BTDC at 1200 rpm, 17 at 1800 rpm and 22 at 2600 rpm. Rotate the distributer until you get roughly that (within 2 deg or so.)
Then put it back together, reconnect the vacuum pipe and make sure the valve in the vacuum pipe is connected with 'dist' pointing to the distributer and 'carb' pointing to the plenum (that's what mine says anyway!)
It's not as hard as it sounds... honest!
Didn't mean to confuse you!
Take the dist cap off, stick the car in 4th gear and roll it forwards, see which way the rotor arm rotates. Then slacken the distributer clamp screw and turn the distributer body 15 deg or so in the same direction.
Then hook up the strobe, disconnect the vacuum advance on the side of the distributer and block the vacuum pipe.
Then fire it up (hopefully it'll fire...) and check with the strobe that you have the ignition at roughly 10 Deg BTDC at 1200 rpm, 17 at 1800 rpm and 22 at 2600 rpm. Rotate the distributer until you get roughly that (within 2 deg or so.)
Then put it back together, reconnect the vacuum pipe and make sure the valve in the vacuum pipe is connected with 'dist' pointing to the distributer and 'carb' pointing to the plenum (that's what mine says anyway!)
It's not as hard as it sounds... honest!
The Hatter said:
Sorry fellah...
Didn't mean to confuse you!
Take the dist cap off, stick the car in 4th gear and roll it forwards, see which way the rotor arm rotates. Then slacken the distributer clamp screw and turn the distributer body 15 deg or so in the same direction.
Then hook up the strobe, disconnect the vacuum advance on the side of the distributer and block the vacuum pipe.
Then fire it up (hopefully it'll fire...) and check with the strobe that you have the ignition at roughly 10 Deg BTDC at 1200 rpm, 17 at 1800 rpm and 22 at 2600 rpm. Rotate the distributer until you get roughly that (within 2 deg or so.)
Then put it back together, reconnect the vacuum pipe and make sure the valve in the vacuum pipe is connected with 'dist' pointing to the distributer and 'carb' pointing to the plenum (that's what mine says anyway!)
It's not as hard as it sounds... honest!
oopps i was taking the wee mate, sorry, but thats very helpfull all the same and i,ll follow your instruction as there alot better than mine.Didn't mean to confuse you!
Take the dist cap off, stick the car in 4th gear and roll it forwards, see which way the rotor arm rotates. Then slacken the distributer clamp screw and turn the distributer body 15 deg or so in the same direction.
Then hook up the strobe, disconnect the vacuum advance on the side of the distributer and block the vacuum pipe.
Then fire it up (hopefully it'll fire...) and check with the strobe that you have the ignition at roughly 10 Deg BTDC at 1200 rpm, 17 at 1800 rpm and 22 at 2600 rpm. Rotate the distributer until you get roughly that (within 2 deg or so.)
Then put it back together, reconnect the vacuum pipe and make sure the valve in the vacuum pipe is connected with 'dist' pointing to the distributer and 'carb' pointing to the plenum (that's what mine says anyway!)
It's not as hard as it sounds... honest!
Cheers
Ralph
Hi Guys
Well an small update on the starter issue, upon removal of the unit i found that the outer casing was cracked again, which must have caused the starter to move and break the pinion teeth, now the fixing i had due to the top bolt being stuck fast was to cut back the caseing to leave enough room for a fixing nut, this fix must have weakened the caseing and caused the breakage, so again i attemped to remove the tread and this time it worked, thank god, so hopefully this is all my fault and can move on with the car this weekend, please god let it be
Well an small update on the starter issue, upon removal of the unit i found that the outer casing was cracked again, which must have caused the starter to move and break the pinion teeth, now the fixing i had due to the top bolt being stuck fast was to cut back the caseing to leave enough room for a fixing nut, this fix must have weakened the caseing and caused the breakage, so again i attemped to remove the tread and this time it worked, thank god, so hopefully this is all my fault and can move on with the car this weekend, please god let it be
Evening Guys
Right got the car serviced today, but cant seem to figure out the lumpy running, i have adjusted the timing but to no avail and is not helped by a blow in the lefthand side exhaust which is causing it to pop, i did however move the car today and clutch is ok but does need bleeding at at some piont and the brakes are a bit soft, again bleeding should sort this.
Fitted a new starter in which i finally sorted out the issue which was down to my stupid fix and i did install a new coolant temp switch, but the car will still not run with it connected???? so am having to link the connector to by pass the switch and tell the ecu not to over fuel, so tomorrow it will be its first run out and from what i experienced today it gonna be one hairly car with that engine, you can just feel the thing, well wish me luck it gonna get messy lol
On another note i am in the process of changing the wheels and just waiting on fitment for these, they should look nice and stock with a bit of bling lol
Right got the car serviced today, but cant seem to figure out the lumpy running, i have adjusted the timing but to no avail and is not helped by a blow in the lefthand side exhaust which is causing it to pop, i did however move the car today and clutch is ok but does need bleeding at at some piont and the brakes are a bit soft, again bleeding should sort this.
Fitted a new starter in which i finally sorted out the issue which was down to my stupid fix and i did install a new coolant temp switch, but the car will still not run with it connected???? so am having to link the connector to by pass the switch and tell the ecu not to over fuel, so tomorrow it will be its first run out and from what i experienced today it gonna be one hairly car with that engine, you can just feel the thing, well wish me luck it gonna get messy lol
On another note i am in the process of changing the wheels and just waiting on fitment for these, they should look nice and stock with a bit of bling lol
Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 25th February 18:53
Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 25th February 18:54
Very nice wheels mate but you need some gold rim screws on those 
Have you tried disconnecting the 9th/cold start injector? I'm just wondering if the ecu is sending a signal to the 9th injector and thus causing overfuelling?
A lot of wedgers run their motors with it permenantly disconnected. I do. Its the one on the offside of the plenum.
You can see it here on the right of the plenum...............
Jimbo
Have you tried disconnecting the 9th/cold start injector? I'm just wondering if the ecu is sending a signal to the 9th injector and thus causing overfuelling?
A lot of wedgers run their motors with it permenantly disconnected. I do. Its the one on the offside of the plenum.
You can see it here on the right of the plenum...............
Jimbo
Edited by JMF894 on Saturday 25th February 20:41
Edited by JMF894 on Saturday 25th February 20:41
Edited by JMF894 on Saturday 25th February 20:42
Edited by JMF894 on Sunday 26th February 16:12
Hi Jimbo
i did try that after the car warmed up, but no difference, the strange thing is the car will not even start if i connect the new coolant temp switch, so have to have it disconnected with a link?? Car then starts fine when hot or cold but is missing underload and at idle and am still not convinced i have the timing right as when i adjust the dissy it does little or sod all?? thanks for your help its much appreciated, regards Ralph
i did try that after the car warmed up, but no difference, the strange thing is the car will not even start if i connect the new coolant temp switch, so have to have it disconnected with a link?? Car then starts fine when hot or cold but is missing underload and at idle and am still not convinced i have the timing right as when i adjust the dissy it does little or sod all?? thanks for your help its much appreciated, regards Ralph
Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 25th February 21:07
JMF894 said:
Have you tried disconnecting the 9th/cold start injector? I'm just wondering if the ecu is sending a signal to the 5th injector and thus causing overfuelling?
A lot of wedgers run their motors with it permenantly disconnected. I do. Its the one on the offside of the plenum.
Jimbo
The cold start injector isn't fired by the ECU, it's controlled by the thermo/time switch adjacent to the coolant temp sensor at the front left of the engine. I have yet to see a wedge that actually needs it to start; as Jimbo says many cars have it disconnected (some of us binned it and have a blanking plate where it used to be!).A lot of wedgers run their motors with it permenantly disconnected. I do. Its the one on the offside of the plenum.
Jimbo
Wedg1e said:
The cold start injector isn't fired by the ECU, it's controlled by the thermo/time switch adjacent to the coolant temp sensor at the front left of the engine. I have yet to see a wedge that actually needs it to start; as Jimbo says many cars have it disconnected (some of us binned it and have a blanking plate where it used to be!).
Ahh ok could it be a faulty thermotime switch then? JMF894 said:
Ahh ok could it be a faulty thermotime switch then?
It'd be the first duff one I've ever seen Well OK, when they're duff they usually fail the other way and don't work at all - yours would have to have the contacts welded closed or something. Unplug it and see if it makes a difference.Massive overfuelling in my experience has always been an ECU issue (once you rule out the coolant temp sensor and airflow meter, both of which I think you've changed?). When my ECU played-up one time it was en route to the Wedgefest; I found it ran quite well if I unplugged two injectors on each bank! Before that it would only run quite well as long as you kept your foot to the floor...
Evening Guys
Well drove the car for the first time today and have to say it very loud and pretty quick concidering the engine was misfiring alot, so after a few runs it has started to make a knocking noise from eva the gearbox (bell housing) or the bottom of the engine and dont sound to great, top end of engine sounds fine and the noise is not rev matched, so at the moment i am at a loss, shame really as was looking forward to having the car tuned and enjoying it and will have to deside if i take it to a garage unless one of you guys knows a good mechinic in croydon or purley area.
Cheers
Ralph
Well drove the car for the first time today and have to say it very loud and pretty quick concidering the engine was misfiring alot, so after a few runs it has started to make a knocking noise from eva the gearbox (bell housing) or the bottom of the engine and dont sound to great, top end of engine sounds fine and the noise is not rev matched, so at the moment i am at a loss, shame really as was looking forward to having the car tuned and enjoying it and will have to deside if i take it to a garage unless one of you guys knows a good mechinic in croydon or purley area.
Cheers
Ralph
Edited by ralph350i on Sunday 26th February 18:14
Hi mate..Sounds a bit of a dissapointment!!..Does the noise happen when the car is cold?..Does it happen all the time or go when you depress the clutch?..I hope its not but it sounds like the gearbox has something failing..Not sure about good mechanics in croydon even though its not too far from me..Try to establish exactly where the noise is coming from..I did a search and found these guys..Might be worth giving them a call to pick their brains..Cheers..Ziga
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=g...
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=g...
mrzigazaga said:
Hi mate..Sounds a bit of a dissapointment!!..Does the noise happen when the car is cold?..Does it happen all the time or go when you depress the clutch?..I hope its not but it sounds like the gearbox has something failing..Not sure about good mechanics in croydon even though its not too far from me..Try to establish exactly where the noise is coming from..I did a search and found these guys..Might be worth giving them a call to pick their brains..Cheers..Ziga
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=g...
Hi Zigahttp://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=g...
Cheers mate it happens all the time now and if i depress the clutch it still there, i did have another listen and it appears to be from the sump area, but dont sound like big ends it more of a rattle and it present cold or hot.
Yes mate i am dissapionted as the engine has run sweet with no noises apart from running rough, i did read it could be the timing or cams, but i think at this piont i may give Elmwood Tvr a call tomorrow and get them to sort it out along with the running issues mate as i am not a mechinic mate and think this maybe a little to far for me, still on a good note, bloody love the car mate
Cheers
Ralph
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