New 350i owner
Discussion
Valvoltec said:
Hi Ralph,That looks a nice car,and you are making progress I have read through the posts,with interest my background is in vehicle repair,some times I wish, I could be there to look, or show ,or help.I have indeed come across starter nose castings failing.
I can not give a one off definite hard and fast reason for failure.But some observations.
1- The original starter motors casting did not fail.It failed probably due to age and the repeated attempts to crank the engine.
2-The starters you have been fitting if they are chinese are not made the same,quality of most is very poor and they use different castings.
3-The engine stops in nearly the same place,wear is usually confined to a few teeth,damage to the ring gear can normally be rectified at an early stage by filling the effected teeth carefully.
4-The clutch,numerous times I have chosen to replace the plate only,when refitting an engine after a rebuild,and if an engine or gearbox seal has failed,and also when young and skint,this has worked time on.
5 -The heavy pedal is a symptom of a worn clutch cover,but could be clutch fork,the hydraulics,even debris from the starter failures.
6-The stuck bolt,and the alignment of the starter,some starters have a dowel to align the starter other use the hole in the bell housing,is the dowel missing or the new starters different in dimension where they enter the bell housing.The bolt is steel into aluminium,it should be possible to remove,heating,carefully or the freezing/unseizing sprays work well,can you get two nuts on the remaining thread lock them together with 2 spanners and remove.
My thoughts are that the broken starter problem has only occured with the replacement of the starter and the problem is the new starter or is alignment and fitting to the vehicle,eliminate the broken bolt,ensure there is no debris inside the bell housing,check for the fitment of dowels,find somebody that can rebuild the original starter,or measure carefully every dimension and the throw of the pinion,depth of engagement on the replacements you are fitting.A google of a few landrover/rangerover forums or specialists might also highlight problems they are having with after market starters
I also would want a run out of the vehicle,before removing engine and box,I would want to check,the other major components,diff and gearbox for undue noise and proper operation,brakes,wheel bearings,a good drive will reveal a lot about the car,you will be able to cost the repairs to your budget.You will also be able to see where your at with the engine side of things.
If you can sort the starter problem,get the engine running well,and the clutch is just heavy,you may be able to live with the car like this,whilst you sort the interior and paint and generally improve it.You also get to see if the TVR suits you and don't miss a summer of fun.
The starters we had fail were faulty starter casting,and or machining problems with bell housings,but aftermarket starters have also caused a lot of problems,I have seen us fit 3 or 4 replacements to a vehicle every one failing dramatically,I personally would rather keep the original and rebuild,hope you soon sort the car,and sorry we are not a little closer as I would have popped over to help.
Hi ValvoltecI can not give a one off definite hard and fast reason for failure.But some observations.
1- The original starter motors casting did not fail.It failed probably due to age and the repeated attempts to crank the engine.
2-The starters you have been fitting if they are chinese are not made the same,quality of most is very poor and they use different castings.
3-The engine stops in nearly the same place,wear is usually confined to a few teeth,damage to the ring gear can normally be rectified at an early stage by filling the effected teeth carefully.
4-The clutch,numerous times I have chosen to replace the plate only,when refitting an engine after a rebuild,and if an engine or gearbox seal has failed,and also when young and skint,this has worked time on.
5 -The heavy pedal is a symptom of a worn clutch cover,but could be clutch fork,the hydraulics,even debris from the starter failures.
6-The stuck bolt,and the alignment of the starter,some starters have a dowel to align the starter other use the hole in the bell housing,is the dowel missing or the new starters different in dimension where they enter the bell housing.The bolt is steel into aluminium,it should be possible to remove,heating,carefully or the freezing/unseizing sprays work well,can you get two nuts on the remaining thread lock them together with 2 spanners and remove.
My thoughts are that the broken starter problem has only occured with the replacement of the starter and the problem is the new starter or is alignment and fitting to the vehicle,eliminate the broken bolt,ensure there is no debris inside the bell housing,check for the fitment of dowels,find somebody that can rebuild the original starter,or measure carefully every dimension and the throw of the pinion,depth of engagement on the replacements you are fitting.A google of a few landrover/rangerover forums or specialists might also highlight problems they are having with after market starters
I also would want a run out of the vehicle,before removing engine and box,I would want to check,the other major components,diff and gearbox for undue noise and proper operation,brakes,wheel bearings,a good drive will reveal a lot about the car,you will be able to cost the repairs to your budget.You will also be able to see where your at with the engine side of things.
If you can sort the starter problem,get the engine running well,and the clutch is just heavy,you may be able to live with the car like this,whilst you sort the interior and paint and generally improve it.You also get to see if the TVR suits you and don't miss a summer of fun.
The starters we had fail were faulty starter casting,and or machining problems with bell housings,but aftermarket starters have also caused a lot of problems,I have seen us fit 3 or 4 replacements to a vehicle every one failing dramatically,I personally would rather keep the original and rebuild,hope you soon sort the car,and sorry we are not a little closer as I would have popped over to help.
Many thanks for a great reply, i have the original starter and it does still work as i changed the solenoid and the fixing nuts have been resolved with a bit of engneering, so i,ll check the ring gear and if ok will try the starter and see what happens, the new starter are only breaking when the car begin to start??
The clutch i will bleed and try even if it is still heavy as you say, just to try and see what if anything needs to be addressed and if i like the car which am sure i will.
I am going to give the car a full service this weekend and sort out the exhausts as the flanges are not sealed and am getting alot of smoke from them into the engine bay, i have given the car the once over and it does look like brakes, wheel bearings, master cylinder and a number of other items have been resently addressed so hopefully not to much is need.
Many thanks & Kind Regards
Ralph
The Hatter said:
If the starter self destructs when the engine fires then I suspect the engine is trying to fire and rotate backwards, ie the timing is way too far advanced and it's firing before TDC. Although I agree Chinese starters may self destruct of their own accord!
Hi HatterInteresting mate as i have only semi-set the timing so the car will start, i,ll get a scrope light on it this weekend and report back.
Many thanks
Ralph
The Hatter said:
If you're not sure of the timing then based on what you've said I'd be tempted to retard the ignition 15 deg or so to start it. Then with it running don't forget to disconnect (and block the ports of) the vacuum advance to check with the strobe. And afterwards make sure the little plastic valve in the vac advance line is present and connected the right way around, and the diaphragm's not ruptured (suck on it and check it moves... technical eh!).
Good luck! It's sooo satisfying when you nail it!
Hi HatterGood luck! It's sooo satisfying when you nail it!
It must be techinical and good as you lossed me mate
Cheers Ralph
The Hatter said:
Sorry fellah...
Didn't mean to confuse you!
Take the dist cap off, stick the car in 4th gear and roll it forwards, see which way the rotor arm rotates. Then slacken the distributer clamp screw and turn the distributer body 15 deg or so in the same direction.
Then hook up the strobe, disconnect the vacuum advance on the side of the distributer and block the vacuum pipe.
Then fire it up (hopefully it'll fire...) and check with the strobe that you have the ignition at roughly 10 Deg BTDC at 1200 rpm, 17 at 1800 rpm and 22 at 2600 rpm. Rotate the distributer until you get roughly that (within 2 deg or so.)
Then put it back together, reconnect the vacuum pipe and make sure the valve in the vacuum pipe is connected with 'dist' pointing to the distributer and 'carb' pointing to the plenum (that's what mine says anyway!)
It's not as hard as it sounds... honest!
oopps i was taking the wee mate, sorry, but thats very helpfull all the same and i,ll follow your instruction as there alot better than mine.Didn't mean to confuse you!
Take the dist cap off, stick the car in 4th gear and roll it forwards, see which way the rotor arm rotates. Then slacken the distributer clamp screw and turn the distributer body 15 deg or so in the same direction.
Then hook up the strobe, disconnect the vacuum advance on the side of the distributer and block the vacuum pipe.
Then fire it up (hopefully it'll fire...) and check with the strobe that you have the ignition at roughly 10 Deg BTDC at 1200 rpm, 17 at 1800 rpm and 22 at 2600 rpm. Rotate the distributer until you get roughly that (within 2 deg or so.)
Then put it back together, reconnect the vacuum pipe and make sure the valve in the vacuum pipe is connected with 'dist' pointing to the distributer and 'carb' pointing to the plenum (that's what mine says anyway!)
It's not as hard as it sounds... honest!
Cheers
Ralph
Hi Guys
Well an small update on the starter issue, upon removal of the unit i found that the outer casing was cracked again, which must have caused the starter to move and break the pinion teeth, now the fixing i had due to the top bolt being stuck fast was to cut back the caseing to leave enough room for a fixing nut, this fix must have weakened the caseing and caused the breakage, so again i attemped to remove the tread and this time it worked, thank god, so hopefully this is all my fault and can move on with the car this weekend, please god let it be
Well an small update on the starter issue, upon removal of the unit i found that the outer casing was cracked again, which must have caused the starter to move and break the pinion teeth, now the fixing i had due to the top bolt being stuck fast was to cut back the caseing to leave enough room for a fixing nut, this fix must have weakened the caseing and caused the breakage, so again i attemped to remove the tread and this time it worked, thank god, so hopefully this is all my fault and can move on with the car this weekend, please god let it be
Evening Guys
Right got the car serviced today, but cant seem to figure out the lumpy running, i have adjusted the timing but to no avail and is not helped by a blow in the lefthand side exhaust which is causing it to pop, i did however move the car today and clutch is ok but does need bleeding at at some piont and the brakes are a bit soft, again bleeding should sort this.
Fitted a new starter in which i finally sorted out the issue which was down to my stupid fix and i did install a new coolant temp switch, but the car will still not run with it connected???? so am having to link the connector to by pass the switch and tell the ecu not to over fuel, so tomorrow it will be its first run out and from what i experienced today it gonna be one hairly car with that engine, you can just feel the thing, well wish me luck it gonna get messy lol
On another note i am in the process of changing the wheels and just waiting on fitment for these, they should look nice and stock with a bit of bling lol
Right got the car serviced today, but cant seem to figure out the lumpy running, i have adjusted the timing but to no avail and is not helped by a blow in the lefthand side exhaust which is causing it to pop, i did however move the car today and clutch is ok but does need bleeding at at some piont and the brakes are a bit soft, again bleeding should sort this.
Fitted a new starter in which i finally sorted out the issue which was down to my stupid fix and i did install a new coolant temp switch, but the car will still not run with it connected???? so am having to link the connector to by pass the switch and tell the ecu not to over fuel, so tomorrow it will be its first run out and from what i experienced today it gonna be one hairly car with that engine, you can just feel the thing, well wish me luck it gonna get messy lol
On another note i am in the process of changing the wheels and just waiting on fitment for these, they should look nice and stock with a bit of bling lol
Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 25th February 18:53
Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 25th February 18:54
Hi Jimbo
i did try that after the car warmed up, but no difference, the strange thing is the car will not even start if i connect the new coolant temp switch, so have to have it disconnected with a link?? Car then starts fine when hot or cold but is missing underload and at idle and am still not convinced i have the timing right as when i adjust the dissy it does little or sod all?? thanks for your help its much appreciated, regards Ralph
i did try that after the car warmed up, but no difference, the strange thing is the car will not even start if i connect the new coolant temp switch, so have to have it disconnected with a link?? Car then starts fine when hot or cold but is missing underload and at idle and am still not convinced i have the timing right as when i adjust the dissy it does little or sod all?? thanks for your help its much appreciated, regards Ralph
Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 25th February 21:07
Evening Guys
Well drove the car for the first time today and have to say it very loud and pretty quick concidering the engine was misfiring alot, so after a few runs it has started to make a knocking noise from eva the gearbox (bell housing) or the bottom of the engine and dont sound to great, top end of engine sounds fine and the noise is not rev matched, so at the moment i am at a loss, shame really as was looking forward to having the car tuned and enjoying it and will have to deside if i take it to a garage unless one of you guys knows a good mechinic in croydon or purley area.
Cheers
Ralph
Well drove the car for the first time today and have to say it very loud and pretty quick concidering the engine was misfiring alot, so after a few runs it has started to make a knocking noise from eva the gearbox (bell housing) or the bottom of the engine and dont sound to great, top end of engine sounds fine and the noise is not rev matched, so at the moment i am at a loss, shame really as was looking forward to having the car tuned and enjoying it and will have to deside if i take it to a garage unless one of you guys knows a good mechinic in croydon or purley area.
Cheers
Ralph
Edited by ralph350i on Sunday 26th February 18:14
mrzigazaga said:
Hi mate..Sounds a bit of a dissapointment!!..Does the noise happen when the car is cold?..Does it happen all the time or go when you depress the clutch?..I hope its not but it sounds like the gearbox has something failing..Not sure about good mechanics in croydon even though its not too far from me..Try to establish exactly where the noise is coming from..I did a search and found these guys..Might be worth giving them a call to pick their brains..Cheers..Ziga
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=g...
Hi Zigahttp://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=g...
Cheers mate it happens all the time now and if i depress the clutch it still there, i did have another listen and it appears to be from the sump area, but dont sound like big ends it more of a rattle and it present cold or hot.
Yes mate i am dissapionted as the engine has run sweet with no noises apart from running rough, i did read it could be the timing or cams, but i think at this piont i may give Elmwood Tvr a call tomorrow and get them to sort it out along with the running issues mate as i am not a mechinic mate and think this maybe a little to far for me, still on a good note, bloody love the car mate
Cheers
Ralph
Many Thanks for the replies Guys there much appriceiated.
In regards to the efi i may have not been fully clear about further developements i found yesterday,. so after running the car, i removed the spark plugs only to find that the tips where white which would indicate air leaking into inlet system. suspect Air Valve or one of many vacuum connections, Ian did indicate that the AFM had been adjusted so am betting that the mixture has been weaken of way to far ( how do i adjust please is it the alan key at the side of the unit??) and after removing the NGK plugs i fitted some champion items with a longer tip which cured the lumpy idle, the car run alot better but still sounded like air was leaking into the system, in regards to the CTP, surely if a link is place and the car then starts this would indicate that the wires are in working order telling the ECU not to overfuel?????
So know my main concern now is the noise which appears to come from the sump area which is quite loud, its hard to describe but i,ll post a video of the noise later today to see if that helps, my one question would be if its not a big end noise ( which it defo is not) then what could cause a bottom end inconsistent knocking/rattling sound, oil pump?? spun bearing shells? sorry for all the questions but am hoping you guys could give me a understand off what could be the issue could be.
Kind Regards
Ralph
In regards to the efi i may have not been fully clear about further developements i found yesterday,. so after running the car, i removed the spark plugs only to find that the tips where white which would indicate air leaking into inlet system. suspect Air Valve or one of many vacuum connections, Ian did indicate that the AFM had been adjusted so am betting that the mixture has been weaken of way to far ( how do i adjust please is it the alan key at the side of the unit??) and after removing the NGK plugs i fitted some champion items with a longer tip which cured the lumpy idle, the car run alot better but still sounded like air was leaking into the system, in regards to the CTP, surely if a link is place and the car then starts this would indicate that the wires are in working order telling the ECU not to overfuel?????
So know my main concern now is the noise which appears to come from the sump area which is quite loud, its hard to describe but i,ll post a video of the noise later today to see if that helps, my one question would be if its not a big end noise ( which it defo is not) then what could cause a bottom end inconsistent knocking/rattling sound, oil pump?? spun bearing shells? sorry for all the questions but am hoping you guys could give me a understand off what could be the issue could be.
Kind Regards
Ralph
honestjohntoo said:
The allen key only adjusts CO mixture at idle. As for readjusting the AFM innards for mixture change across the whole rpm range, it is not for the faint hearted, but given a reasonable study and the right circumstances plus some CO measuring equipment it is do-able.
This would be an ideal time to follow up by reading the link from #9 of the same health check,(everything you could possibly need to know about the AFM) to decide if and how to perform that somewhat complex procedure.
There is also an empirical process suggested that would depend only on observing spark plug colour.
Hi Honest-johntooThis would be an ideal time to follow up by reading the link from #9 of the same health check,(everything you could possibly need to know about the AFM) to decide if and how to perform that somewhat complex procedure.
There is also an empirical process suggested that would depend only on observing spark plug colour.
i have been though the hole PDF and carried out all the electrical test and the reading all stack up to be correct, this inculdes ecu, afm, injectors, wiring you name it i have completed it, so that really leaves me with mixture setting, timing and the coolant temp switch which for the life of me i dont understand, as surely if the link is place and the car then starts surely the ecu is picking up the signal and doing its job?? where it not making any difference i would defo be looking further into the wiring.
Hi Adam
i have check and cleaned every earth and been though the wiring on the car and all is in the correct order and in fairness to Ian i understand why he was scratching his head as his mechinic had the timing out 180 degs and this CTS is not only confusing me it must have driven him mad.
Hi Ziga
Thanks mate, hopefully the vids may help, i did speak to a guy today who am told knows his way around a Rover engine and hopefully he will come and have a look.
Hi Mike
Many thanks mate am sure i,ll get there one day lol
Well here's 2 video's i took yesterday of the noise, the first one starts from the engine bay then when the video goes black my iphone is postioned in the driver side wheel well, the 2nd is in the wheel well again, there not great but it may help hopefully, i,ll do another with the drive belts removed just to see if that make any difference, many thanks.
honestjohntoo said:
really have no idea what link you are talking about and what it does. Is it possible you are describing a resistor used as a "get U home dodge".
Either way, in the meantime all I can suggest is more study for you to test the sensor and all its connections..
Coolant Temperature Sensor
Location and Operation
The Rover SD1 Efi Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) is located in the coolant gallery at front left of the inlet manifold alongside but slightly behind the thermo-time switch. It informs the ECU of engine temperature changes so it can compute injector "open time" to provide correct fuel / air mixture for any temperature condition. eg: From cold, the CTS resistance falls continuously according to the profile below until the engine temperature stabilises. Thereafter minor changes are monitored accordingly.
Failure Modes
The CTS is a key component of the Rover SD1 Efi System and, in truth, in conjunction with its wiring and connector, not very reliable. Recent anecdotal evidence indicates a fairly high fail rate which has a serious effect on the operation of the system. eg: The CTS and/or its wiring can go open circuit, falsely signalling the ECU that the engine remains cold, which in turn computes a rich air / fuel mixture resulting in significant overfuelling. At best, this produces very lumpy performance and at worst, floods the engine such that it will not start or run. Fortunately it is easy to test.
Circuit
The CTS has a silicon element that changes its resistance to signal a change of temperature so the ECU can compute injector "open time"
It is connected to pin 13 and earth pins 5,16,17 and 35 of the ECU. The the other (very important) earth on the black/white (BW) wire is a heavy duty ring tag on the Efi loom going to an earth stud on the engine block behind and below the LH rocker cover
Testing
Conditions as follows: Engine HOT, ECU multiplug disconnected as in A: Ignition OFF: Measure coolant temperature with thermal probe: Connect an ohmmeter as shown in B below and take a single reading. Compare it to the resistance/temperature profile below. Consider connecting the ohmmeter for only short periods, not in fear of damage, but the meter battery may cause the sensor to heat up and give an incorrect reading. Allow the engine to cool and take further readings. If the measurements match the profile within (say) 10-15%, the CTS and its connections are OK.
TEMP.......OHMS........TEMP........OHMS
-10°C...9100-9300....60°C.......500-700
0°C.......5700-5900....80°C.......300-400
20°C.....2400-2600....100°C....150-200
40°C.....1100-1300
If the readings are clearly wrong, remove the sensor for a controlled test using a pan of water and thermometer.
Suspend the sensor in the water and bring to the boil. Compare resistance readings to the profile. Variations of (say) 10 -15% are not critical but if they are obviously way off or there is a clear intermittant or distorted result then consider the test failed. Obtain a replacement unit, check it as above to verify OK, fit it into the manifold and reconnect to the Efi circuit. Reconnect the ohmmeter as in B and repeat the measurement between the ECU pin 13 and earth. If this still incorrect there is a wiring problem so check the black/slate wire (BS) and black/white wire (BW) and their connections paying particular attention to the earth stud at the rear of the engine.
Temporary Get U Going Trick
Study of the chart shows at optimum coolant temperature of 90 deg C, the resistance of the CTS would be in the order of 200 ohms thus revealing a workable temporary solution to a faulty sensor.
When cold, start the engine with the sensor plug disconnected to get benefit from cold start enrichment. When the engine warms up and falters, insert a 200 ohm resistor into the sensor plug allowing normal driving to continue as long as the engine remains warm/hot. If difficult to restart when warm, a bootful of the accelerator pedal will enrichen the mixture sufficiently to get moving again; and of course when the engine is cold, remove the temporary resistor from the sensor plug.
A practical trick highly dependent upon sufficient foresight to obtain a 200 ohm resistor. The really elegant solution is to keep a resistor taped to the sensor cable in anticipation!
Conclusions
The components in the Rover SD1 Efi System have varying degrees of reliability but generally they are quite robust. The lifetime of the CTS is thought to be between 100k and 200k miles, however, problems with this component often manifest themselves much sooner due to wiring or connector problems. The under-bonnet environment for an Efi Engine is very hostile due to extremely high temperatures generated by the latent heat of the engine which convects and conducts upwards into the aluminium manifold and plenum chamber. More so, when the car is parked up for short periods in very hot weather. The under-bonnet blanket installed for sound deadening reasons also acts as an efficient insulator trapping the excess heat for long periods. Such hostile temperature changes play havoc with the poorly specified Efi wiring loom and connectors which can become very brittle causing cracking and encouraging corrosion. Consequently, because of its importance to the correct fueling of the engine when problems with the CTS are suspected, the first simple tests to perform would be to check the integrity of its connectors. Failing that, the recommended test procedure will identify any or all of the problems.
Apologies if you have already studied this.
Hi JohnEither way, in the meantime all I can suggest is more study for you to test the sensor and all its connections..
Coolant Temperature Sensor
Location and Operation
The Rover SD1 Efi Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) is located in the coolant gallery at front left of the inlet manifold alongside but slightly behind the thermo-time switch. It informs the ECU of engine temperature changes so it can compute injector "open time" to provide correct fuel / air mixture for any temperature condition. eg: From cold, the CTS resistance falls continuously according to the profile below until the engine temperature stabilises. Thereafter minor changes are monitored accordingly.
Failure Modes
The CTS is a key component of the Rover SD1 Efi System and, in truth, in conjunction with its wiring and connector, not very reliable. Recent anecdotal evidence indicates a fairly high fail rate which has a serious effect on the operation of the system. eg: The CTS and/or its wiring can go open circuit, falsely signalling the ECU that the engine remains cold, which in turn computes a rich air / fuel mixture resulting in significant overfuelling. At best, this produces very lumpy performance and at worst, floods the engine such that it will not start or run. Fortunately it is easy to test.
Circuit
The CTS has a silicon element that changes its resistance to signal a change of temperature so the ECU can compute injector "open time"
It is connected to pin 13 and earth pins 5,16,17 and 35 of the ECU. The the other (very important) earth on the black/white (BW) wire is a heavy duty ring tag on the Efi loom going to an earth stud on the engine block behind and below the LH rocker cover
Testing
Conditions as follows: Engine HOT, ECU multiplug disconnected as in A: Ignition OFF: Measure coolant temperature with thermal probe: Connect an ohmmeter as shown in B below and take a single reading. Compare it to the resistance/temperature profile below. Consider connecting the ohmmeter for only short periods, not in fear of damage, but the meter battery may cause the sensor to heat up and give an incorrect reading. Allow the engine to cool and take further readings. If the measurements match the profile within (say) 10-15%, the CTS and its connections are OK.
TEMP.......OHMS........TEMP........OHMS
-10°C...9100-9300....60°C.......500-700
0°C.......5700-5900....80°C.......300-400
20°C.....2400-2600....100°C....150-200
40°C.....1100-1300
If the readings are clearly wrong, remove the sensor for a controlled test using a pan of water and thermometer.
Suspend the sensor in the water and bring to the boil. Compare resistance readings to the profile. Variations of (say) 10 -15% are not critical but if they are obviously way off or there is a clear intermittant or distorted result then consider the test failed. Obtain a replacement unit, check it as above to verify OK, fit it into the manifold and reconnect to the Efi circuit. Reconnect the ohmmeter as in B and repeat the measurement between the ECU pin 13 and earth. If this still incorrect there is a wiring problem so check the black/slate wire (BS) and black/white wire (BW) and their connections paying particular attention to the earth stud at the rear of the engine.
Temporary Get U Going Trick
Study of the chart shows at optimum coolant temperature of 90 deg C, the resistance of the CTS would be in the order of 200 ohms thus revealing a workable temporary solution to a faulty sensor.
When cold, start the engine with the sensor plug disconnected to get benefit from cold start enrichment. When the engine warms up and falters, insert a 200 ohm resistor into the sensor plug allowing normal driving to continue as long as the engine remains warm/hot. If difficult to restart when warm, a bootful of the accelerator pedal will enrichen the mixture sufficiently to get moving again; and of course when the engine is cold, remove the temporary resistor from the sensor plug.
A practical trick highly dependent upon sufficient foresight to obtain a 200 ohm resistor. The really elegant solution is to keep a resistor taped to the sensor cable in anticipation!
Conclusions
The components in the Rover SD1 Efi System have varying degrees of reliability but generally they are quite robust. The lifetime of the CTS is thought to be between 100k and 200k miles, however, problems with this component often manifest themselves much sooner due to wiring or connector problems. The under-bonnet environment for an Efi Engine is very hostile due to extremely high temperatures generated by the latent heat of the engine which convects and conducts upwards into the aluminium manifold and plenum chamber. More so, when the car is parked up for short periods in very hot weather. The under-bonnet blanket installed for sound deadening reasons also acts as an efficient insulator trapping the excess heat for long periods. Such hostile temperature changes play havoc with the poorly specified Efi wiring loom and connectors which can become very brittle causing cracking and encouraging corrosion. Consequently, because of its importance to the correct fueling of the engine when problems with the CTS are suspected, the first simple tests to perform would be to check the integrity of its connectors. Failing that, the recommended test procedure will identify any or all of the problems.
Apologies if you have already studied this.
the link was the get you home trick, but i did not use a resistor as only run for short periods, i have tested this item, but just to be on the safe side will complete again and thank you very much you are off great help
Kind Regards
Ralph
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Mate..That noise sounds a bit like an exhaust blow at the flange joint..I dont think anything at the bottom of the engine would make that kind of noise..The top maybe..Lifters or valves or cam..Although i could be wrong but it does sound like a blowing exhaust as its more of a ticking..Have you checked around the lower joins...Ziga
Hi ZigaThe exhaust is a mess mate, there are untightened bolts in the manifold on that side and really at a later stage i was going to remove and refix and as you say if it was the top end i would agree that it does sound like a lifter is stuck, i,ll post another video later mate with the drive belts removed to try and reduce the area noise, cheers mate here's hoping it a simple fix, many thanks, ralph
honestjohntoo said:
Shoot!!! So you are using a short circuit instead of 200 ohms.
Well that might explain the poor performance under load because the ECU would be significantly under fuelling, methinks, and the torque would be completely pants.
That's new to me as I never came across anyone choosing to do this with a short cicuit AND run the car, thus connected, so its a bit of an unknown to me.
I only ever heard of using a short circuit to briefly eliminate a wiring issue but I personally don't recommend it.
It does however beg the question as to whether the connector is actually making contact with the sensor or perhaps even the sensor is still duff.
One of the problems that occurs when an owner/enthusiast takes random steps outside the normal processes/recommendations and at the same time confuses helpers with arbitrary descriptions, is that odd or non understandable results may occur or possibly even collateral damage.
Not trying to scare you, but other components in the system might not like it.
There does come a time when a better all round understanding of the system is imperative.
Hi JohnWell that might explain the poor performance under load because the ECU would be significantly under fuelling, methinks, and the torque would be completely pants.
That's new to me as I never came across anyone choosing to do this with a short cicuit AND run the car, thus connected, so its a bit of an unknown to me.
I only ever heard of using a short circuit to briefly eliminate a wiring issue but I personally don't recommend it.
It does however beg the question as to whether the connector is actually making contact with the sensor or perhaps even the sensor is still duff.
One of the problems that occurs when an owner/enthusiast takes random steps outside the normal processes/recommendations and at the same time confuses helpers with arbitrary descriptions, is that odd or non understandable results may occur or possibly even collateral damage.
Not trying to scare you, but other components in the system might not like it.
There does come a time when a better all round understanding of the system is imperative.
Well i read that fix on here and as you know am new to TvR so if i have made a mistake then sorry to lead you up the garden path, i,ll get a 200 ohms resistor today and try again and (quote) the poor performance under load because the ECU would be significantly under fuelling, methinks, and the torque would be completely pants) would be bang on the money.
Many thanks
Ralph
Hi Adam
I,ll give that a go and thanks, can you tell me if it possible to remove the loom as a hole inculding the ECU plug, as then i could pull it apart a check the wirers and replace if needed, thanks for your help, regards, Ralph
Evening Guys
Well i think i have some good news, the noise coming from the engine is the broken starter parts being ficked around in the bell housing, so fishing rod out at the weekend and hope remove the unwanted items.
I have also managed to get some 175 ohm & 200 ohm resistors ( not sure which is the correct one to use as 2 Pdfs state different ohms), so i,ll try both to see if i can get the mixure somewhere near and try to find this wiring fault with the CTS
Cheers
Ralph
Well i think i have some good news, the noise coming from the engine is the broken starter parts being ficked around in the bell housing, so fishing rod out at the weekend and hope remove the unwanted items.
I have also managed to get some 175 ohm & 200 ohm resistors ( not sure which is the correct one to use as 2 Pdfs state different ohms), so i,ll try both to see if i can get the mixure somewhere near and try to find this wiring fault with the CTS
Cheers
Ralph
Evening Guys
Well on saturday managed to get most of the broken starter motors bits out of the gearbox so thank god thats sorted, but for the life of me i can not figure out what the issue is with the poor runing of the engine, i have check all wiring back to ecu and earthing pionts and all appears to be good, so am left scratching my head, the CTS wiring is fine and a new sensor is fitted, but to no avail, the car will not run with it connected??? so think its time to let a garage see what they can do, i await the large bill
Kind Regards
Ralph
Well on saturday managed to get most of the broken starter motors bits out of the gearbox so thank god thats sorted, but for the life of me i can not figure out what the issue is with the poor runing of the engine, i have check all wiring back to ecu and earthing pionts and all appears to be good, so am left scratching my head, the CTS wiring is fine and a new sensor is fitted, but to no avail, the car will not run with it connected??? so think its time to let a garage see what they can do, i await the large bill
Kind Regards
Ralph
Edited by ralph350i on Sunday 4th March 19:04
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Mate..Are you letting Elmwood TVR have a look?..I hope you get it sorted and its something thats an easy solution..Hopefully it will be good news and not a hefty bill..Good luck mate..Ziga
Hi ZigaYes mate there nearest to me and the car just maybe able to make it on it own legs as dont really want to fork out for transport and am pretty sure this is an easy fix ( i hope lol) but would love to move forward and at lease drive the car for a bit without it trying to rip the gearbox and diff out of the sub frame
i,ll ring them tomorrow mate and hopefully get this fixed and see what this cars really about.Cheers mate
Ralph
Mike Brewer said:
Good on you Ralph.hope they can sort the car for you.I know its frustrating.Had a few issues with my emmissions .Cheers Mike
Cheers MikeIt has been mate as i thought i was getting somewhere, never mind hopefully these guys can sort the problems out and i can start attending to over items that need doing.
All the best
Ralph
Evening Guys
A quick question, does the car run a lambda sensor??? as have seen this on a ecu diagram, if so could someone please confirm the location and wiring please, i have booked the car in for thursday, but if there something i have missed i,ll kick myself.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-LAMBDA-SENSOR-OXYGEN...
Kind Regards
Ralph
A quick question, does the car run a lambda sensor??? as have seen this on a ecu diagram, if so could someone please confirm the location and wiring please, i have booked the car in for thursday, but if there something i have missed i,ll kick myself.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-LAMBDA-SENSOR-OXYGEN...
Kind Regards
Ralph
Edited by ralph350i on Monday 5th March 18:57
Edited by ralph350i on Monday 5th March 19:17
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