Possible headgasket failure...
Discussion
Hi Peeps..Well i went to see the ford guy and he had a sniff in the header tank and said it does smell a little bit like fumes in there..Ok..Its not conclusive but then i got to my mums house which was on the way back and when i pulled up i thought i should check the coolant level..I then noticed smoke/steam coming out of the oil filler cap and when i took it off i could plainly see water on the underside of the cap and the neck of the rocker had some creamy sludge around the inside,I can also see creamy oil on the rockers!!..I checked the dipstick and sure enough there is creamy s
te on that as well and when i blew the steam away in the neck of the rocker it came out of the dipstick tube like a mini kettle..I was hopimg that it could of been a bit that i spilt when i was doing the inlet but i have checked it since i fitted it and only now its materialised..Now the other ste news!!..I have an MOT on the 11/04/12 so i wont be able to take it for that and i have no spare money until the end of april so im stuck!!..Whats it worth with a blown head gasket??..£1000-1500?..I might just have to call it a day on the wedge and buy a cheap ste battered up pile of that i severely hate?.."Why why why".."You slag"! Cheers..Ziga
te on that as well and when i blew the steam away in the neck of the rocker it came out of the dipstick tube like a mini kettle..I was hopimg that it could of been a bit that i spilt when i was doing the inlet but i have checked it since i fitted it and only now its materialised..Now the other ste news!!..I have an MOT on the 11/04/12 so i wont be able to take it for that and i have no spare money until the end of april so im stuck!!..Whats it worth with a blown head gasket??..£1000-1500?..I might just have to call it a day on the wedge and buy a cheap ste battered up pile of that i severely hate?.."Why why why".."You slag"! Cheers..ZigaDon't get rid of it Zig. You have put so much effort and money into this car that it really would be a shame. Something will come up and you'll find a solution. Maybe someone on this forum who has had the experience of replacing a head gasket will help you out. Where there is a will there is a way. Don't rush, wait and see what happens. If you sell it, you'll regret it. You love that car. All the best mate.
Tony. TCB.
Tony. TCB.
Don't give up on it mate, that's an order !!!
Your 280 is far too nice to sell. I'm sure someone on here could offer to do the work for you. All you need is the headgasket set and 2-3 days of work !
I'd gladly help mate but my mechanical knowledge is very limited as you know.
I did however see all the stages of my old 350i having a new headgasket and in theory it is a relatively simple job but you can get an awkward manifold bolt to deal with etc. That's on the V8's anyway, the V6's may be easier ?
Have you tried Radseal as a temporary fix/bodge ?
Your 280 is far too nice to sell. I'm sure someone on here could offer to do the work for you. All you need is the headgasket set and 2-3 days of work !
I'd gladly help mate but my mechanical knowledge is very limited as you know.
I did however see all the stages of my old 350i having a new headgasket and in theory it is a relatively simple job but you can get an awkward manifold bolt to deal with etc. That's on the V8's anyway, the V6's may be easier ?
Have you tried Radseal as a temporary fix/bodge ?
Cheers for the support chaps..They say every cloud has a silver linning..Especially david essex..
..Anyway i have asked a couple of friends and they are able to loan me the money to sort the head gasket out...I would attempt it myself but i dont have all the tools i need or the space as its street mechanics!!...Hopefully should be done by friday..So none of this lovely weather will go to waste..
..Delilah you are a little teaser..Ill give her a good thrashing once she is back on her feet..Chhers..Ziga
..Anyway i have asked a couple of friends and they are able to loan me the money to sort the head gasket out...I would attempt it myself but i dont have all the tools i need or the space as its street mechanics!!...Hopefully should be done by friday..So none of this lovely weather will go to waste....Delilah you are a little teaser..Ill give her a good thrashing once she is back on her feet..Chhers..ZigaI'd 75% say its a problem with the change of inlet manifold, I'm not 100% sure what oil/water paths the v6 has, but seeing as it started happening after changing this, it's more likely than a HFG that was fine before.
Who going to be changing it. yes it will be find after but that due to they will also have to fit a new in-let manifold also.
Shame you don't have other transport else I'd do it at my barn, but can't say how long it would take.
Who going to be changing it. yes it will be find after but that due to they will also have to fit a new in-let manifold also.
Shame you don't have other transport else I'd do it at my barn, but can't say how long it would take.
Hi Leigh..Thanks for the offer..Apparently a failing inlet manifold gasket wouldnt allow gases into the header tank and it does smell a bit like there are fumes in there..It certainly doesnt smell anything like the coolant in the bottle!!..If it is just the inlet manifold gasket it will get spotted as it gets removed so it might not be as bad as thought, But to be honest i would rather have the peace of mind that the head gasket is fine even by replacement..Especially if i get a supercharger fitted later..But above all else i can rest assured if i want to travel some miles that there wont be an issue with a head gasket blowing, I would hate it if it gave up on me half way to this years BBWF!!..Cheers..Ziga
Zig, the bad news - it's better to know this, but sorry for adding to your woes !
Not had a problem with inlet manifolds, but have had head gasket fault (as previous note).
If you can smell fumes, and get lots of 'cream' it's probably head gasket. (bugger.....)
The Cologne 2.3 had a reputation for head gasket leaks, but not as bad for the 2.8 (more metal on the heads).
If you do decide it's the head gasket, DON'T just put a new one on, as you need to know why the original one has blown - typically it's either corrosion of the head surface, or the head has warped (warping is more common on ally heads, but can happen on iron ones too). Block warpage is possible, but not very likely. You will then need to get the head skimmed to make it flat and/or remove any corroded 'pits' that cause gasket failure.
It's not a hard engine to take to bits, and it's all pretty straightforward, but you MUST follow the head tightening sequence correctly.
Buy a Granada 2.8 workshop manual if you can, or even a Cortina 2.3 at a pinch as engines are the same for rebuild.
Consider an exchange one (perhaps even a 3.7 !!) as it's not always more money in the long run. Consider a full rebuild anyway, I reckon. Crank bearings don't like water in the oil....they may be OK if you have caught it quickly. It's useful to check the bores etc.
If it has overheated at any time, the fibre camshaft gear will have a higher chance of failure too, consider a steel one - noisy, but very reliable. A few companies still have them. I think I got mine from Burton ? not sure.
An exchange engine is a lot less hassle and worry, but it depends what you want. I'm happy to take them to bits, but it's not for everyone.
I hope that helps a bit, shame about the leak...very very annoying, been there a few times over the years (not all with 2.8 V6 !!)
Not had a problem with inlet manifolds, but have had head gasket fault (as previous note).
If you can smell fumes, and get lots of 'cream' it's probably head gasket. (bugger.....)
The Cologne 2.3 had a reputation for head gasket leaks, but not as bad for the 2.8 (more metal on the heads).
If you do decide it's the head gasket, DON'T just put a new one on, as you need to know why the original one has blown - typically it's either corrosion of the head surface, or the head has warped (warping is more common on ally heads, but can happen on iron ones too). Block warpage is possible, but not very likely. You will then need to get the head skimmed to make it flat and/or remove any corroded 'pits' that cause gasket failure.
It's not a hard engine to take to bits, and it's all pretty straightforward, but you MUST follow the head tightening sequence correctly.
Buy a Granada 2.8 workshop manual if you can, or even a Cortina 2.3 at a pinch as engines are the same for rebuild.
Consider an exchange one (perhaps even a 3.7 !!) as it's not always more money in the long run. Consider a full rebuild anyway, I reckon. Crank bearings don't like water in the oil....they may be OK if you have caught it quickly. It's useful to check the bores etc.
If it has overheated at any time, the fibre camshaft gear will have a higher chance of failure too, consider a steel one - noisy, but very reliable. A few companies still have them. I think I got mine from Burton ? not sure.
An exchange engine is a lot less hassle and worry, but it depends what you want. I'm happy to take them to bits, but it's not for everyone.
I hope that helps a bit, shame about the leak...very very annoying, been there a few times over the years (not all with 2.8 V6 !!)
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 27th March 20:23
Hi Mate..Its going into the ford garage tomorrow morning and hopefully it should be done by friday..I would attempt it but i dont have the correct tools, I also would have to do it out in the street and there is nowhere local to get the heads skimmed..Plus its my only car at the moment so its a bit awkward!!..I hope i caught it early as it was overheating this time last year but the recored rad and new thermostat seemed to do the trick..This is the first time i have seen water in the oil and it will be transported there as i dont want to risk driving it..I was going to have an unleaded conversion and port matching and polishing, Also porting of the inlet done but its more money than i have at the moment so it will get done another time...Im considering a rebuild later for peace of mind..Getting the cam gear changed to steel or ally was one of the options but i will ue the car for a while longer..If i get a supercharger fitted it will have a detrimental effect on any work done to the crank or Cam and only beneficial if i have some porting done for more airflow..But thats a different story..Fingers crossed for friday..Cheers for all the help..Ziga
Bad Luck, not again I hear you saying, Stay with it, get it sorted you know these cars are as special as you!
Been there done that, know the feeling, 3 years nearly ago mine gave up about two months after I spent all my spare cash at the time having paint done. I can laugh about it know
. But its fine now, pain in the arsh a couple weeks ago, but thats what these cars are!
Been there done that, know the feeling, 3 years nearly ago mine gave up about two months after I spent all my spare cash at the time having paint done. I can laugh about it know
. But its fine now, pain in the arsh a couple weeks ago, but thats what these cars are!Wedg1e said:
You sure? I thought the 2.3 was an underbored 2.8 with the same head castings. Long time since I looked at one though so may be wrong (it happens 
)...(AN = early 2.3 -> the gasket blower, A9 = later 2.3 EN = 2.8 )
ZIG - ZIG - I realised I missed something - there IS an exhaust outlet to the inlet manifold on the V6.
Sound nuts ?? Well there is a cross passage which was used to heat up the carb manifold and also for EGR equipment for export models. It's blanked off on the injection manifold, but the port is still there, so it's just possible it can leak exhaust fumes into the crankcase and may leak water too. I'd still bet on a head gasket from the symptoms described, but thought I would add that info as you have changed the inlet manifold.
Edited by RCK974X on Wednesday 28th March 03:32
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
Hi Mark,
Also you may want to get your temp gauge working correctly. plus make sure it's always got water in it.
Hi Leigh..The problem with that is that i didnt replace the sender that is calibrated to the stuart warner gauge..I have searched and searched for one but cannot find one..My gauge reads 210 and doesnt go above that, I have used a probe thermometer and it gets to 88 degrees and the thermostat opens.(As it should do)..And shortly after the fan comes on and then goes off..I was told how to calibrate the gauge with a resistor but cant remember??..I have kind of got used to it as is...It obviously is not that hot as suggested..If you know a way of re-setting the gauge please tell..I was going to replace the gauge with another that comes with the sender...Also you may want to get your temp gauge working correctly. plus make sure it's always got water in it.
I have had a conversation with the ford garage and he said what might be happening is the inlet gasket has failed and i might have a crack on one of the heads as this would explain why i had hydrocarbons in the header last year and no creamy oil..The leaking inlet gasket could be the cause of the creamy oil..He is investigating it now and has spare heads if need be..No unleaded ones though!!..But that can be addressed later..Fingers crossed...Ziga
Zig, I reckon my temp guage doesn't read correctly even WITH the proper SW sender. It was always near the top of the guage, but it definitely was not overheating.
I put a 15 ohm resistor in line with the sender, and it reads just about 1/2 scale now. Nice.
For an experiment, I know that a Triumph 2000 Mk1 (NOT mk2 !!) sender will fit into the Ford block, and it's calibrated for the Smiths guages so has higher resistance than the Ford ones. It might work better ?
Heads - I can only suggest a pressure test - if you were getting HCs in the oil, then it might be time for a (part) engine rebuild anyway - cracked heads will eventually fail.
If the replacement heads came from an engine run on proper 4 star, they won't need anything special for a while for unleaded, due to 'lead memory' (lead gets into all the small pores on the casting and lasts about 20K miles). Check that the heads have the casting marks 'EN' on them to make sure they are the right ones.
I put a 15 ohm resistor in line with the sender, and it reads just about 1/2 scale now. Nice.
For an experiment, I know that a Triumph 2000 Mk1 (NOT mk2 !!) sender will fit into the Ford block, and it's calibrated for the Smiths guages so has higher resistance than the Ford ones. It might work better ?
Heads - I can only suggest a pressure test - if you were getting HCs in the oil, then it might be time for a (part) engine rebuild anyway - cracked heads will eventually fail.
If the replacement heads came from an engine run on proper 4 star, they won't need anything special for a while for unleaded, due to 'lead memory' (lead gets into all the small pores on the casting and lasts about 20K miles). Check that the heads have the casting marks 'EN' on them to make sure they are the right ones.
RCK974X said:
For an experiment, I know that a Triumph 2000 Mk1 (NOT mk2 !!) sender will fit into the Ford block, and it's calibrated for the Smiths guages so has higher resistance than the Ford ones. It might work better ?
Hi Mate..I think you told me that before and i fitted one and it took it down from 280 on the gauge to 210 so it had some effect..The secondhand heads will be from one of the many spare engines he has lying about and he will inspect them for wear and im hoping they will be ok..I will have an engine re-build later probably at the end of the year and either go for a sprintex supercharger or a turbo set up..Either way its a bag full of cash but im intending on keeping it for quite a while afterwards..Cheers for the info...ZigaOh bugger, it's the Alzheimer's again...now where did I put that memory ?
Sorry 'bout that - Yes I remember now.... OK, well it will have to be the resistor trick then.
Sounds like you might have a good choice of heads....Excellent..
As I also said before -
I beleive you can still find the bits for Turbo Capri to mod your injection system, but I didn't say that they are -
1. modified warm up unit (the one at the front by water outlet)
2. a special 'ring' that fits in the K cone (it richens up the midrange for the turbo)
3. an advance and retard canister for the dizzy.
It may be that you can get away with either 1 OR 2, but not sure about that.
According to Ford sites etc, this was it for the TT mods, no engine changes, and no intercooler either for the low boost option(200-210 bhp).
Oh and if you have a 4 speeder 'E' type in good nick, keep it for the turbo. The 5 speeder isn't nearly as strong....remember Cosworth Sierras went to the T5 box..
Sorry 'bout that - Yes I remember now.... OK, well it will have to be the resistor trick then.
Sounds like you might have a good choice of heads....Excellent..
As I also said before -
I beleive you can still find the bits for Turbo Capri to mod your injection system, but I didn't say that they are -
1. modified warm up unit (the one at the front by water outlet)
2. a special 'ring' that fits in the K cone (it richens up the midrange for the turbo)
3. an advance and retard canister for the dizzy.
It may be that you can get away with either 1 OR 2, but not sure about that.
According to Ford sites etc, this was it for the TT mods, no engine changes, and no intercooler either for the low boost option(200-210 bhp).
Oh and if you have a 4 speeder 'E' type in good nick, keep it for the turbo. The 5 speeder isn't nearly as strong....remember Cosworth Sierras went to the T5 box..
Edited by RCK974X on Wednesday 28th March 22:41
Thanks leigh but i really dont have that kind of money at the moment, Maybe later in the year..For now though it seems to be ok..Just got an email from the garage and this is the result..
Heads are off, the headgasket on the drivers side, middle cylinder has been leaking, not badly, but enough to burn some water and contaminate the cooling and oil systems. The exhaust valve on that cylinder is completely different colour to the others, because of the water. No cracks in heads. Heads are still flat. Just old age on the gaskets. Cylinder bores are very healthy – good. Minor valve seat recession, but not much. All good to start reassembling. 2 pics – note brown exhaust valve – WATER.
Heads are off, the headgasket on the drivers side, middle cylinder has been leaking, not badly, but enough to burn some water and contaminate the cooling and oil systems. The exhaust valve on that cylinder is completely different colour to the others, because of the water. No cracks in heads. Heads are still flat. Just old age on the gaskets. Cylinder bores are very healthy – good. Minor valve seat recession, but not much. All good to start reassembling. 2 pics – note brown exhaust valve – WATER.
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