Any mechanics in Essex that actually know the Flapper lump?
Discussion
Changed the leads back to the Magnecors, stuck a new coil on and it started firsttime and idled but even with gentle revs it would try and die coming back to idle. After slightly stronger reving it just kept dying at idle.
Upon restarting (very difficuly) it was missing badly and wouldn't idle.
Anyways, I've got a trailer sorted so now I'm just gonna give Mowatts a ring and see if I can book it in with them next week.
Upon restarting (very difficuly) it was missing badly and wouldn't idle.
Anyways, I've got a trailer sorted so now I'm just gonna give Mowatts a ring and see if I can book it in with them next week.
smash said:
Changed the leads back to the Magnecors, stuck a new coil on and it started first time and idled but even with gentle revs it would try and die coming back to idle. After slightly stronger reving it just kept dying at idle.
Upon restarting (very difficuly) it was missing badly and wouldn't idle.
Anyways, I've got a trailer sorted so now I'm just gonna give Mowatts a ring and see if I can book it in with them next week.
Will it idle for a few minutes at stable rpm? This will at least allow you to check a few things eg all cylinders firing? You can then spray carb cleaner around the various pipes to see if there is an air leak Upon restarting (very difficuly) it was missing badly and wouldn't idle.
Anyways, I've got a trailer sorted so now I'm just gonna give Mowatts a ring and see if I can book it in with them next week.
It did initially idle stable - but it won't idle at all now.
TBH I just can't drum up any enthusiasm for it - I just want it sorted running, MOT'd and belonging to someone else asap. Hopefully Mowatt will solve the problems, get it running sweet as a nut and then I can sell it - although they don't look like they're actually selling at the mo.
TBH I just can't drum up any enthusiasm for it - I just want it sorted running, MOT'd and belonging to someone else asap. Hopefully Mowatt will solve the problems, get it running sweet as a nut and then I can sell it - although they don't look like they're actually selling at the mo.
So 45-50psi with ignition on but engine not turning, fuel pump running through pushing the AFM flap? the ECU had a sticker on it with 350i relay layout so that's why I thought it was 350i ECU?
Mowatt's used to exclusively look after a 400SE that was on here and the owner swore by them apparently
I blew down the breather pipe that goes to the trap on the driver side rocker cover - there was no resistence at all, no pressurising - is this what you meant Adam?
I did take some more video this morning so here we go:
This was cold, first start with new coil and back to magnecors - cold start injector connected:
http://youtu.be/nhNWTXxhzRY
Third restart cold injector disconnected and firetrap breather reconnected (idle dropped after reconnection):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alOcNEReIP4
Mowatt's used to exclusively look after a 400SE that was on here and the owner swore by them apparently
I blew down the breather pipe that goes to the trap on the driver side rocker cover - there was no resistence at all, no pressurising - is this what you meant Adam?
I did take some more video this morning so here we go:
This was cold, first start with new coil and back to magnecors - cold start injector connected:
http://youtu.be/nhNWTXxhzRY
Third restart cold injector disconnected and firetrap breather reconnected (idle dropped after reconnection):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alOcNEReIP4
Edited by smash on Friday 18th April 13:34
That short run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhNWTXxhzRY&fea...
should be enough to check each exhaust header for temperature variations.
should be enough to check each exhaust header for temperature variations.
Bobby Shaftoe said:
Has the car ever driven right in your ownership, how does it drive through the rev range, part throttle an full throttle?
Yes - occasionally. It suffered from a brickwall misfire whenever throttle pedal went halfway or further - you could nurse it to high rev by using less than half throttle. BUT sometimes it would just magically "clear" and run perfectly on full throttle.I did adjust the timing - advanced to get 30 degrees all in @ 5k - then current symptoms started after this but initially it just had a higher idle speed (as you'd expect from advancing)
Took the rocker off on drivers side - all fine and dandy - all shims and springs. No back pressure blowing down flame trap hose because the gasket had completely missed sealing in the middle. It's now ripped through removal!
I set fuel pressure at 45psi and it didn't want to start and is still missing like a b
d. Lots of white smoke on start up. I adjusted idle screw so it idled but completely unhappy.
Thing is it didn't start the stalling thing straight after adjusting the timing - it was fine for a while.
This has to be an ecu/electrical issue because of the periods of clarity the cars had - it doesn't make sense it's mechanical.
I set fuel pressure at 45psi and it didn't want to start and is still missing like a b
d. Lots of white smoke on start up. I adjusted idle screw so it idled but completely unhappy.Thing is it didn't start the stalling thing straight after adjusting the timing - it was fine for a while.
This has to be an ecu/electrical issue because of the periods of clarity the cars had - it doesn't make sense it's mechanical.
smash said:
Third restart cold injector disconnected and firetrap breather reconnected (idle dropped after reconnection):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alOcNEReIP4
That's still missing like a goodun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alOcNEReIP4
Tell me bout it! 
I've emailed Maston to try and borrow Hallsie's spare ECU and AFM. A mate of mine had real probs with a 4 litre hotwire missing all over and it turned out it was the dizzy.
@Bobby I adjusted the big plenum idle screw - not touched AFM but must say I didn't notice any clear sealant round the rectangular plastic cap. If I can get spare AFM to try should rule it out or not.
Is the AFM stock 3.5 Efi?
Also how would I ID a 390 ECU?
Cheers
EDIT - no sign of ECU purchase in history - did discover original purchaser who lived in St Johns Wood when the car was C46 GHG. Spoiler added in 1990 from factory.
I've emailed Maston to try and borrow Hallsie's spare ECU and AFM. A mate of mine had real probs with a 4 litre hotwire missing all over and it turned out it was the dizzy.
@Bobby I adjusted the big plenum idle screw - not touched AFM but must say I didn't notice any clear sealant round the rectangular plastic cap. If I can get spare AFM to try should rule it out or not.
Is the AFM stock 3.5 Efi?
Also how would I ID a 390 ECU?
Cheers
EDIT - no sign of ECU purchase in history - did discover original purchaser who lived in St Johns Wood when the car was C46 GHG. Spoiler added in 1990 from factory.
Edited by smash on Friday 18th April 18:43
smash said:
No back pressure blowing down flame trap hose because the gasket had completely missed sealing in the middle.
Now we might be getting somewhere - as you blow down the engine breather the block should be a bit like a balloon - airtight but like a big bottle so you should be able to pressurise it.Now if your gasket was ripped the air will bypass the throttle and more crucially the Airflow Meter by being sucked in past the rocker cover, down the breather pipe and into the plenum.
Unmetered air getting into the plenum = bad news especially for idling! It will run far too lean.
Quick fix = take off the breather hose from the plenum and plug the plenum pipe hole with a rag. You can let the breather hose vent into fresh air for now. Let us know if it starts idling properly.
Smash.
In case you missed it, here is my structured 350i Flapper 15 point health check suggested in my post on Monday 14 April.
Assuming the engine is in good mechanical condition with correct cam and lifter performance and timing, good compression within acceptable limits on all eight cylinders, good exhaust system with no leaks and fresh lubrication plus clean filters, then there are 15 easy steps to attend to with the Rover SD1 Efi V8 system to improve health/performance from its current condition.
1 Clean all ignition components externally and internally, spray with moisture inhibitor such as WD40 and wipe dry. Ensure the distributor vacuum and mechanical advance mechanisms are lightly lubricated, working correctly and the springs/bob weights are free of any corrosion.
2 Check security and eliminate any corrosion on all ignition Low Tension connections right back to the ignition switch, including all local earth connections.
Get some ideas here:
3 Clean and re-gap the spark plugs - replace if necessary.
4 Check for damaged or out of specification (measured suppression resistance) High Tension leads, Pay particular attention to the rubber boots. Clean and replace if necessary.
5 Set ignition timing to just eliminate pinking with normally available fuel.
See here for a neat process
(Note: Items 1-5 are to guarantee and maximise the best possible spark at exactly the right time. Check workshop manual for recommended component and timing specifications.)
6 Ensure the plenum idle air gallery is clear and not contaminated with goo.
7 Thoroughly clean the plenum breather gallery, flame trap and LH rocker cover breather filter
8 Ensure the throttle disc(s) is correctly seated at idle (or set to the recommended disc to tunnel gap where specified) to prevent "idle speed hang-up" and that the whole throttle mechanism is free of unwanted friction right through from accelerator pedal to throttle pot. (Note - items 6-8 are best performed by taking the Plenum Chamber to the workbench).
Go here for Plenum Solutions:
9 Set the AFM CO content to the recommended range erring just on the weak side of the mid-point. If a CO meter is not immediately available set the adjuster screw to 2.5 turns out, from fully home.
See here for AFM stuff:
Reset idle speed to the recommended level. The settings are interactive so recheck both.
10 Set the Throttle Position Sensor residual voltage to 325mv (some spec's call for 350mv). Ensure the sensor is not electrically noisy, causing random overfuelling.
See here for full detail:
11 Verify the fuel pressure operates in the range 26 to 36 psi. not more, not less.
Details here:
12 Test the integrity of the plenum and all its air/vacuum hoses for rogue air-leaks.
How To here:
13 Check all Efi loom wiring/connections for faults/corrosion including the Efi engine earth AND the engine earth strap.
Unusual Efi Earthing Issues here:...
14 Check and replace air and fuel filters if necessary. Ensure fuel tank is not generating crud.
15 Because the Plenum must be removed for proper cleaning and adjustment, lift and service the injectors, replacing filter baskets, pintle caps, fuel pipes and injector to manifold seals.
See here:
None of the above can yield anything over and above the system performance that existed when it was new but, be amazed at the horses the above program will release from a tired and maladjusted Rover SD1 Efi V8 system.
And the beauty of it is, apart from time, most of these actions are low cost, or cost free.
Sadly, because you intend to ditch the car, you could miss out on the hidden pleasures resulting from following the above advices.
In case you missed it, here is my structured 350i Flapper 15 point health check suggested in my post on Monday 14 April.
Assuming the engine is in good mechanical condition with correct cam and lifter performance and timing, good compression within acceptable limits on all eight cylinders, good exhaust system with no leaks and fresh lubrication plus clean filters, then there are 15 easy steps to attend to with the Rover SD1 Efi V8 system to improve health/performance from its current condition.
1 Clean all ignition components externally and internally, spray with moisture inhibitor such as WD40 and wipe dry. Ensure the distributor vacuum and mechanical advance mechanisms are lightly lubricated, working correctly and the springs/bob weights are free of any corrosion.
2 Check security and eliminate any corrosion on all ignition Low Tension connections right back to the ignition switch, including all local earth connections.
Get some ideas here:
3 Clean and re-gap the spark plugs - replace if necessary.
4 Check for damaged or out of specification (measured suppression resistance) High Tension leads, Pay particular attention to the rubber boots. Clean and replace if necessary.
5 Set ignition timing to just eliminate pinking with normally available fuel.
See here for a neat process
(Note: Items 1-5 are to guarantee and maximise the best possible spark at exactly the right time. Check workshop manual for recommended component and timing specifications.)
6 Ensure the plenum idle air gallery is clear and not contaminated with goo.
7 Thoroughly clean the plenum breather gallery, flame trap and LH rocker cover breather filter
8 Ensure the throttle disc(s) is correctly seated at idle (or set to the recommended disc to tunnel gap where specified) to prevent "idle speed hang-up" and that the whole throttle mechanism is free of unwanted friction right through from accelerator pedal to throttle pot. (Note - items 6-8 are best performed by taking the Plenum Chamber to the workbench).
Go here for Plenum Solutions:
9 Set the AFM CO content to the recommended range erring just on the weak side of the mid-point. If a CO meter is not immediately available set the adjuster screw to 2.5 turns out, from fully home.
See here for AFM stuff:
Reset idle speed to the recommended level. The settings are interactive so recheck both.
10 Set the Throttle Position Sensor residual voltage to 325mv (some spec's call for 350mv). Ensure the sensor is not electrically noisy, causing random overfuelling.
See here for full detail:
11 Verify the fuel pressure operates in the range 26 to 36 psi. not more, not less.
Details here:
12 Test the integrity of the plenum and all its air/vacuum hoses for rogue air-leaks.
How To here:
13 Check all Efi loom wiring/connections for faults/corrosion including the Efi engine earth AND the engine earth strap.
Unusual Efi Earthing Issues here:...
14 Check and replace air and fuel filters if necessary. Ensure fuel tank is not generating crud.
15 Because the Plenum must be removed for proper cleaning and adjustment, lift and service the injectors, replacing filter baskets, pintle caps, fuel pipes and injector to manifold seals.
See here:
None of the above can yield anything over and above the system performance that existed when it was new but, be amazed at the horses the above program will release from a tired and maladjusted Rover SD1 Efi V8 system.
And the beauty of it is, apart from time, most of these actions are low cost, or cost free.
Sadly, because you intend to ditch the car, you could miss out on the hidden pleasures resulting from following the above advices.
Guys please - let's not argue - just agree to disagree maybe. In the grand scheme of things the fuel pressure made no difference and as I haven't got a rolling road or AFR to check what's happening I'm gonna back it down to 38psi for time being.
I appreciate all input, I also hate this car! Actually I look at it for a few minutes after every time I take the cover off and think it is stunning - the hate comes after about 5 minutes of messing around again, lol!
So I have little time today but intend at some point to plug the plenum breather, run and check the firing of every plug with inductive timing light. Also get some rocker gaskets.
I appreciate all input, I also hate this car! Actually I look at it for a few minutes after every time I take the cover off and think it is stunning - the hate comes after about 5 minutes of messing around again, lol!
So I have little time today but intend at some point to plug the plenum breather, run and check the firing of every plug with inductive timing light. Also get some rocker gaskets.
- EDIT* I will genuinely happily pay anyone who can get it running right - name your price!
Edited by smash on Saturday 19th April 10:37
Start at the beginning smash. Get it idling and see if any one or more exhaust headers is running cool or cold, this will point you towards a general fault e.g. too much air, not enough fuel, poor ignition amp; or a fault specific to one or more cylinders e.g. one bank of injectors not firing, duff lead(s), duff plug(s), burnt exhaust valve(s). It's easy to flail around, you might fix it. On the other hand you might go round in circles and lose interest.
I lost interest ages ago! Anyways so today I ran it with the plenum breather plugged - idle speed definitely higher but still not happy.
Reducing fuel pressure to 38psi helped but still missing like a bd. Checked spark on evens bank and all firing fine according to timing light. Didn't get to check odds side as it wouldn't idle long enough.
Looking very much like a fueling issue.
That said, look what came out the breather:
Although there is no real evidence of blown head gasket elsewhere - no mayo in filler cap and no irridescence in water. I haven't done compression test though.
Suspect if I pull the plugs they will be black again - wondering about trying lower fuel pressure than reg to see what happens.
Waiting to hear back from Maston to borrow ECU and AFM
Reducing fuel pressure to 38psi helped but still missing like a b
d. Checked spark on evens bank and all firing fine according to timing light. Didn't get to check odds side as it wouldn't idle long enough.Looking very much like a fueling issue.
That said, look what came out the breather:
Although there is no real evidence of blown head gasket elsewhere - no mayo in filler cap and no irridescence in water. I haven't done compression test though.
Suspect if I pull the plugs they will be black again - wondering about trying lower fuel pressure than reg to see what happens.
Waiting to hear back from Maston to borrow ECU and AFM
Edited by smash on Saturday 19th April 18:40
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